Antara

[So-Keher]

Wow cool! Proof that mixed fantasy can be both as intriguing and original as high fantasy. Well done! I got an impression of oldschool occult and victorian-age horror (personal favorite, sword canes!) as well. That was terribly explained sorry. Nice job! Are you going to spend some time discussing the strange tech of your world, like Mirrors?

[Tangential]

First of all: Thanks!

Tybalt: At this point Antara is free floating tone-wise. As more is revealed, more elements of "doom" will definitely become apparent. Ultimately the world may end up closer to MtA (which I just got my hands on yesterday) than the others you mentioned, but a lot more internally consistent (even though that means cosmic inconsistency).

Korumaine: Old school occult and Victorian horror certainly have their place in Antara, but will not dominate it. Sword-canes are indeed rockin'. I will give more detail on the technology and magic of the world at a later time...for now be content with the fact that Mirrors are not what you think. ;)

[Stargate525]

I'm a little late, but what I've seen so far can make we only say one thing.

Wow. (seems to be common around here.)

PLEASE tell me that this will be built for d20 modern. It would be great to see that get some love around here, especially with something this freaking awesome.

[Tangential]

Better late than never, Mister Howitzer.

I hate to ruin your dreams but at the moment this poor little setting doesn't have a system to call home. I'm considering a tweaked version of d20 Modern but I feel there are some problems with it in general.

For instance, in the d20 system it is rather impossible to represent someone who is very specialized in one thing and terrible with all others. The higher level you are: the better you are at everything. Absolutely incredible at casting spells? Check. And good at fighting too? check.
For most games that's a good thing. Antara...not so much.

And the way d20M handles magic is abhorrent. Next we come to the HP system which isn't evocative of an "urban fantasy". As much as Gaiman and Miéville love RPGs, they weren't envisioning HP in their works.

I've considered nWoD, but frankly as cool as the fluff is, I not only hate their combat system, I am also not too keen on the way skills are represented. oCoC leaves everyone as weak bitches just waiting to die, and Tri-Stat suffers from lack of conceptual clarity.

I suppose I could us WP/VP and rewrite magic and a dozen other things to make d20M work but for now...I'm not convinced. Wanna try to change that?

[Stargate525]

For instance, in the d20 system it is rather impossible to represent someone who is very specialized in one thing and terrible with all others. The higher level you are: the better you are at everything. Absolutely incredible at casting spells? Check. And good at fighting too? check.
For most games that's a good thing. Antara...not so much.

And the way d20M handles magic is abhorrent. Next we come to the HP system which isn't evocative of an "urban fantasy". As much as Gaiman and Miéville love RPGs, they weren't envisioning HP in their works.

I don't understand what you mean by the first part. Trust me, specialized characters such as wizards or fighters will not be good at something else. Unless you multiclass and use the combination classes, I really never see this as a problem. I am, of course, talking about creatures of the appropriate level. I'm sure an 8th mage could kick a 1st level commoner's butt simply because of his experience. I don't know what you can do about that.

For HP, the only way you can really go with VP/WP, as that's the only variant I've seen for it.

As far as magic is concerned, I really don't know what you invision for the setting in this regard. Having some more information might let me help better.

[So-Keher]

For instance, in the d20 system it is rather impossible to represent someone who is very specialized in one thing and terrible with all others. The higher level you are: the better you are at everything. Absolutely incredible at casting spells? Check. And good at fighting too? check.
For most games that's a good thing. Antara...not so much.

I don't understand what you mean by the first part. Trust me, specialized characters such as wizards or fighters will not be good at something else. Unless you multiclass and use the combination classes, I really never see this as a problem. I am, of course, talking about creatures of the appropriate level. I'm sure an 8th mage could kick a 1st level commoner's butt simply because of his experience. I don't know what you can do about that.

I believe he was referring to d20 Modern on that comment?

[Stargate525]

For instance, in the d20 system it is rather impossible to represent someone who is very specialized in one thing and terrible with all others. The higher level you are: the better you are at everything. Absolutely incredible at casting spells? Check. And good at fighting too? check.
For most games that's a good thing. Antara...not so much.

I don't understand what you mean by the first part. Trust me, specialized characters such as wizards or fighters will not be good at something else. Unless you multiclass and use the combination classes, I really never see this as a problem. I am, of course, talking about creatures of the appropriate level. I'm sure an 8th mage could kick a 1st level commoner's butt simply because of his experience. I don't know what you can do about that.

I believe he was referring to d20 Modern on that comment?

My comment holds true, but I understand a bit more. Since d20M has more generic classes, there really isn't a whole lot separating them.

[So-Keher]

Yeah that was exactly the problem I had when trying to use d20M. Jaerc, have you ever though about the generic classes as discussed on the Wizards forums, leveless and with points-buy system (keeps it so you can't be good at everything)?

[Tangential]

Mister Howitzer,
I would generally trust you, but specialized characters definitely can be (at least) good at something else. An 8th level mage can also kick an 4th level fighters butt. Usually chalk-up-able to experience, but it doesn't seem to work that way in RL. Using d20, there isn't anything I can do about it and I don't see that as a flaw in the system, simply that it doesn't portray this setting very well.

The problem is somewhat mitigated by the generic classes of d20M, but an 8th level Dedicated Hero will still beat up a 1st level Strong Hero. See above.

VP/WP using Feanaro's variants will be the way I go, if I do end up with d20.

When I have a firmer grip on what PCs are capable of, magic-wise, you'll be the first to know (unless someone else reads it first, and I know you wouldn't let that happen :P).

Ex-So-Keher,
Generic classes are in my mind a design stumble step. Either use classes or go the full route and use pure point-buy for abilities. The latter of which I have seen a multitude of ideas for on the WotC boards. Unless there is something brand new and innovative over there, which I doubt I won't go that route. (though I haven't been there for about a month- time for a cursory check, methinks)

Instead if I decide on some PB system I'll design it myself to work for Antara. Hrmmm...

Oh and thanks for playing folks.

[Stargate525]

Mister Howitzer,
I would generally trust you, but specialized characters definitely can be (at least) good at something else. An 8th level mage can also kick an 4th level fighters butt. Usually chalk-up-able to experience, but it doesn't seem to work that way in RL. Using d20, there isn't anything I can do about it and I don't see that as a flaw in the system, simply that it doesn't portray this setting very well.

The problem is somewhat mitigated by the generic classes of d20M, but an 8th level Dedicated Hero will still beat up a 1st level Strong Hero. See above.

So you want classes that are better at what they do, and worse at what they shouldn't? Man, I'd hate to run out of spells in this setting...

[snakefing]

Nothing really says that "running out of spells" is really possible in every system. We've discussed variants around here that allow spell casting to regenerate fairly quickly. One option had a delay after casting before you can cast again. Another had spell points that are fairly limited in number but recover quite quickly. In such systems, the number of spells cast is essentially unlimited without giving unlimited power.

But for Antara - it seems like the essential thing is to enforce your own vision of reality on your enemies. So you'd be strong within your own paradigm, but weak if forced to fight on someone else's terms. That's a whole different kind of system. Not sure how it would work, but it could be pretty interesting.

[Tangential]

Snakefing said it better than I could have, yay!

[Tangential]

[ic]Fafnir slept restlessly in the nearly empty tenamant building, a wild and disarrayed pile of credit cards, themselves hailing from thirty nations and well over two-hundred backs, could not sooth him tonight. The eerie, phosphorescent quality that seemed to accompany him, everytime he awoke, a lingering maddening reminder of dreams he could not remember, nor will himself to forget.

When he mentioned the dream, the man in the long shabby coat had said that it was post-traumatic-stress-disorder. After some quick research Fafnir found that he couldn't discount the theory, but neither was it something he would dwell upon. Certainly he wouldn't take any pills for it.

The smog of the city enlightened as the dawn came, and Fafnir threw any notion of true rest to the wind. In the next few minutes the birds would awake and when they did, he would be subject to their cruel taunting and idle chatter for the morning hours.

Sighing, and prying his skin from the sweating plastic cards that made his bed, he stood up and scratched idly at the ragged scar below his breast, staggering into the kitchen to pour some orange juice.[/ic]

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Fafnir?  As in the dragon?  Funny, I never pictured him with orange juice...And with PTS, that's great!  Oh wait, I'm guessing your fafnir isn't a dragon...oh.

[Stargate525]

But for Antara - it seems like the essential thing is to enforce your own vision of reality on your enemies. So you'd be strong within your own paradigm, but weak if forced to fight on someone else's terms. That's a whole different kind of system. Not sure how it would work, but it could be pretty interesting.

Agreed. Sounds like the kind of system I might enjoy.

Fafnir?  As in the dragon?  Funny, I never pictured him with orange juice...And with PTS, that's great!  Oh wait, I'm guessing your fafnir isn't a dragon...oh.

Although I could definately see a modern-day dragon hording credit cards and checkbooks instead of gold and silver... I wonder how many of those have been canceled due to theft?