A Continuation (Religious site vs. DnD and other RPGs)

[Wensleydale]

This is continued from our debate in the tavern.

It all began with the fateful posting of this link.

ugh. Christianity vrs. roleplaying is a debate similar to the nutritional value of eggs and their yolks. At one time, it seemed urgent and interesting, and was somewhat popular. Now it's just ammo for comedians.

that guy seems to switch his argument a bit....

"everything in d&d is real! the demons you summon are real! the offense against god is real!"

"its imaginary! it pulls you away from the real world!"

so... is it real, or not? [/quote]Ars Goetia.[/quote]If not, I guess I'm a minority.[/quote]well...

she was a virgin when i found her, anyways...

and i believe the binder class is based on faust, if im not mistaken. that said, regardless of what it's based on, the fact of the matter is that it isnt real. [/quote]  

[Elven Doritos]

There will always be zealots and crazies for any cause. There are plenty of crazies within the RPG world that give the opponents of the genre fuel for the fire-- there are plenty of fundamentalist evangelicals who fuel anti-religious debates.

The problem with sweeping statements like "D&D leads to Satanism" is that it attempts to do two things: use sweeping generalizations about Satanism and sweeping generalizations about D&D. The authors of these sorts of articles clearly have no understanding of Occultism in general or the various branches of Satanism in particular; lumping together various cults and branches of demonology (many of the largest branches of Satanism don't even believe in a literal Satan) shows ignorance at best and down-right deception at worst.

However, the blade wielded is one of two edges. Just as religious fanatics who have neither researched the subject at hand (nor understand that small samples do not represent the entire population) clearly misrepresent both gamers and RPGs, statements like "all religion should be banned" are downright inflammatory and do nothing to further a global community. Atheists should understand more than anyone that choosing a religion (or absence thereof) is a personal choice that everyone is entitled to-- spirituality and mysticism may not be your cup o' joe, but your beliefs aren't universal. Even atheists can study religions and appreciate the moral and ethical examples led by influential religious and philosophical figures such as Mohammed, Jesus, and Buddha, even if you do not believe in the existence of a divine power. There is no overwhelmingly unified atheist movement for a reason-- atheism is, at its core, an individual and very personal commitment to an ideal. It is like viewing the ocean of reality through the porthole of your own life-- it may seem objective and entirely unbiased from your position, but someone next to you could see an entirely different ocean. Neither of you would be wrong, your view would just be different.

-ElDo

[Wensleydale]

Exactly. As my grandfather has always said - there is no such thing as a true atheist - all of them believe in there not being a god.

This never really made sense to me, either. But still.

[Elven Doritos]

Atheism isn't the lack of belief, to clarify. It's the belief that there is no supreme divine being.

[Wensleydale]

Yes, I know... that's why it doesn't really make sense to me. *looks slightly confused*

[Seraph]

Well, there is a difference between believing-there-is-not-a-god (atheism) and not-believing-there-is-a-god (agnosticism)

Note: This may be a slight oversimplification of these two beliefs (or non-beliefs if you prefer)

[Wensleydale]

Oh, you're confusing me now.

I thought... no, actually, I can't simplify at further :D

[Seraph]

Oh, you're confusing me now.

I thought... no, actually, I can't simplify at further :D

Believing there is no god means you have conviction in the absense of divinity.
Not believing there is a god means you are cynical or unsure and do not necessarily disbelieve, but neither do you confirm the existence of divinity

[Wensleydale]

Yus.

I'm more of an agnostic than anything...

[Jharviss]

I've long been wanting to start the Church of Atheism.  I believe in religion as being an organization many people need (being an atheist myself, I nonetheless understand and admire faith) but, unfortunately, you will be hard pressed to find anywhere for people who need faith but are unwilling to go to church.  A pseudo Church of Atheism would fix that.  Of course, that's one of my more peculiar beliefs, I suppose.  

(And it is slightly off topic.)

[Stargate525]

I've long been wanting to start the Church of Atheism.  I believe in religion as being an organization many people need (being an atheist myself, I nonetheless understand and admire faith) but, unfortunately, you will be hard pressed to find anywhere for people who need faith but are unwilling to go to church.  A pseudo Church of Atheism would fix that.  Of course, that's one of my more peculiar beliefs, I suppose.  

(And it is slightly off topic.)

Just out of curiosity, what do Atheists put their faith in? If it's the human race, that is a bad investment.

[Hibou]

That whole website is, pardon my language, full of shit. Of course, anyone who says anything like that in response to it is obviously a follower of Satan, so I guess my opinion doesn't matter.

Big problem: surveying fellow members of your church and only your church, contrary to popular belief, doesn't give you a good representation of everybody.

I hate these sites. People who believe their way to be the purest are often the most impure.

If these people weren't so unreasonable in their beliefs and claims, I'd gladly call myself a Christian. Until then, I'll have to classify myself as a pseudo-Christian.

[SDragon]

I've long been wanting to start the Church of Atheism.  I believe in religion as being an organization many people need (being an atheist myself, I nonetheless understand and admire faith) but, unfortunately, you will be hard pressed to find anywhere for people who need faith but are unwilling to go to church.  A pseudo Church of Atheism would fix that.  Of course, that's one of my more peculiar beliefs, I suppose.  

(And it is slightly off topic.)

Just out of curiosity, what do Atheists put their faith in? If it's the human race, that is a bad investment.

science. "'god' didnt create the universe, the big bang did. 'god' didnt make humans, evolution did. it's all scientifically observable."


edit- did anybody else notice that the only source cited on that page was just another page from the same site? way to prove credibility, citing yourself....

[Wensleydale]

Mmm. You'll also notice that the guy writing it is a reformed bishop of satanism or some rank like that...

[the_taken]

It's not religions that are the problem, it's the orginizations that try to pass off as the guiding beacon of moral righteousness that are. Ban orginized religion and cults, and let people figure out what to do by working together with their neighbors. And only their neighbors.