Discussion: The World

[SDragon]

I say make the Old Empire larger-- approximately 1.25x what you have now.

Making the New Empire approximately the size of texas sounds like a good idea. If it needs to be any bigger at all, I say the absolute maximum should be about 1.5x TX.

[Poseptune]

[spoiler=Continental Map (UPDATED)] [/spoiler]


Here are a few tables to show what the size of the empire would be if a certain scale was selected. I also listed the number of days it takes to travel in a straight line at its widest (w) and tallest (h) points by walking, horse, and wagon/cart.

A Smaller empire:


[table=Smaller Empire]
[tr][th] 1in= mi [/th][th] Width [/th][th] Height [/th][th] Sq mi [/th][th] Walk (w) [/th][th] Walk (h) [/th][th] Horse (w) [/th][th] Horse (h) [/th][th] Cart (w) [/th][th] Cart (h) [/th][th][/tr]
[tr][td]

100

[/td][td]

500.00

[/td][td]

525.00

[/td][td]

262500.00

[/td][td]

20.83

[/td][td]

21.88

[/td][td]

10.42

[/td][td]

10.94

[/td][td]

31.25

[/td][td]

32.81

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

125

[/th][th]

625.00

[/th][th]

656.25

[/th][th]

410156.30

[/th][th]

26.04

[/th][th]

27.34

[/th][th]

13.02

[/th][th]

13.67

[/th][th]

39.06

[/th][th]

41.02

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

150

[/td][td]

750.00

[/td][td]

787.50

[/td][td]

590625.00

[/td][td]

31.25

[/td][td]

32.81

[/td][td]

15.63

[/td][td]

16.41

[/td][td]

46.88

[/td][td]

49.22

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

175

[/th][th]

875.00

[/th][th]

918.75

[/th][th]

803906.25

[/th][th]

36.46

[/th][th]

38.28

[/th][th]

18.23

[/th][th]

19.14

[/th][th]

54.69

[/th][th]

57.42

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

200

[/td][td]

1000.00

[/td][td]

1050.00

[/td][td]

1050000.00

[/td][td]

41.67

[/td][td]

43.75

[/td][td]

20.83

[/td][td]

21.88

[/td][td]

62.50

[/td][td]

65.63

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

225

[/th][th]

1125.00

[/th][th]

1181.25

[/th][th]

1328906.25

[/th][th]

46.88

[/th][th]

49.22

[/th][th]

23.44

[/th][th]

24.61

[/th][th]

70.31

[/th][th]

73.83

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

250

[/td][td]

1250.00

[/td][td]

1312.50

[/td][td]

1640625.00

[/td][td]

52.08

[/td][td]

54.69

[/td][td]

26.04

[/td][td]

27.34

[/td][td]

78.13

[/td][td]

82.03

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

275

[/th][th]

1375.00

[/th][th]

1443.75

[/th][th]

1985156.25

[/th][th]

57.29

[/th][th]

60.16

[/th][th]

28.65

[/th][th]

30.08

[/th][th]

85.94

[/th][th]

90.23

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

300

[/td][td]

1500.00

[/td][td]

1575.00

[/td][td]

2362500.00

[/td][td]

62.50

[/td][td]

65.63

[/td][td]

31.25

[/td][td]

32.81

[/td][td]

93.75

[/td][td]

98.44

[/td][/tr]
[/table][/font][/b]

The Empire the way it is now:




[table=Larger Empire]
[tr][th] 1in = mi [/th][th] Width [/th][th] Height [/th][th] Sq mi [/th][th] Walk (w) [/th][th] Walk (h) [/th][th] Horse (w) [/th][th] Horse (h) [/th][th] Cart (w) [/th][th] Cart (h) [/th][th][/tr]
[tr][td]

100

[/td][td]

650.00

[/td][td]

550.00

[/td][td]

357500.00

[/td][td]

27.08

[/td][td]

22.92

[/td][td]

13.54

[/td][td]

11.46

[/td][td]

40.63

[/td][td]

34.38

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

125

[/th][th]

812.50

[/th][th]

687.50

[/th][th]

558593.75

[/th][th]

33.85

[/th][th]

28.65

[/th][th]

16.93

[/th][th]

14.32

[/th][th]

50.78

[/th][th]

42.97

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

150

[/td][td]

975.00

[/td][td]

825.00

[/td][td]

804375.00

[/td][td]

40.63

[/td][td]

34.38

[/td][td]

20.31

[/td][td]

17.19

[/td][td]

60.94

[/td][td]

51.56

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

175

[/th][th]

1137.50

[/th][th]

962.50

[/th][th]

1094843.75

[/th][th]

47.40

[/th][th]

40.10

[/th][th]

23.70

[/th][th]

20.05

[/th][th]

71.09

[/th][th]

60.16

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

200

[/td][td]

1300.00

[/td][td]

1100.00

[/td][td]

1430000.00

[/td][td]

54.17

[/td][td]

45.83

[/td][td]

27.08

[/td][td]

22.92

[/td][td]

81.25

[/td][td]

68.75

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

225

[/th][th]

1462.50

[/th][th]

1237.50

[/th][th]

1809843.75

[/th][th]

60.94

[/th][th]

51.56

[/th][th]

30.47

[/th][th]

25.78

[/th][th]

91.41

[/th][th]

77.34

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

250

[/td][td]

1625.00

[/td][td]

1375.00

[/td][td]

2234375.00

[/td][td]

67.71

[/td][td]

57.29

[/td][td]

33.85

[/td][td]

28.65

[/td][td]

101.56

[/td][td]

85.94

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

275

[/th][th]

1787.50

[/th][th]

1512.50

[/th][th]

2703593.75

[/th][th]

74.48

[/th][th]

63.02

[/th][th]

37.24

[/th][th]

31.51

[/th][th]

111.72

[/th][th]

94.53

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

300

[/td][td]

1950.00

[/td][td]

1650.00

[/td][td]

3217500.00

[/td][td]

81.25

[/td][td]

68.75

[/td][td]

40.63

[/td][td]

34.38

[/td][td]

121.88

[/td][td]

103.13

[/td][/tr]
[/table][/font][/b]

This table is to give the members an idea of what some of the scales mean in terms of the regions. I chose one small, medium and large region.


 [table=Regions][tr][td] [/td][th colspan='3']Region 21[/th][th colspan='3']Region 22[/th][th colspan='3']Region 32[/th][/tr]  
[tr][th]1in = mi[/th][th]Width  [/th][th]Height  [/th][th]sq mi  [/th][th]Width  [/th][th]Height  [/th][th]sq mi  [/th][th]Width  [/th][th]Height  [/th][th]sq mi  [/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

100

[/td][td]

33.30

[/td][td]

50.00

[/td][td]

1665.00

[/td][td]

200.00

[/td][td]

233.00

[/td][td]

46600.00

[/td][td]

125.00

[/td][td]

75.00

[/td][td]

9375.00

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

125

[/th][th]

41.63

[/th][th]

62.50

[/th][th]

2601.56

[/th][th]

250.00

[/th][th]

291.25

[/th][th]

72812.50

[/th][th]

156.25

[/th][th]

93.75

[/th][th]

14648.44

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

150

[/td][td]

49.95

[/td][td]

75.00

[/td][td]

3746.25

[/td][td]

300.00

[/td][td]

349.50

[/td][td]

104850.00

[/td][td]

187.50

[/td][td]

112.50

[/td][td]

21093.75

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

175

[/th][th]

58.28

[/th][th]

87.50

[/th][th]

5099.06

[/th][th]

350.00

[/th][th]

407.75

[/th][th]

142712.50

[/th][th]

218.75

[/th][th]

131.25

[/th][th]

28710.94

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

200

[/td][td]

66.60

[/td][td]

100.00

[/td][td]

6660.00

[/td][td]

400.00

[/td][td]

466.00

[/td][td]

186400.00

[/td][td]

250.00

[/td][td]

150.00

[/td][td]

37500.00

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

225

[/th][th]

74.93

[/th][th]

112.50

[/th][th]

8429.06

[/th][th]

450.00

[/th][th]

524.25

[/th][th]

235912.50

[/th][th]

281.25

[/th][th]

168.75

[/th][th]

47460.94

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

250

[/td][td]

83.25

[/td][td]

125.00

[/td][td]

10406.25

[/td][td]

500.00

[/td][td]

582.50

[/td][td]

291250.00

[/td][td]

312.50

[/td][td]

187.50

[/td][td]

58593.75

[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]

275

[/th][th]

91.58

[/th][th]

137.50

[/th][th]

12591.56

[/th][th]

550.00

[/th][th]

640.75

[/th][th]

352412.50

[/th][th]

343.75

[/th][th]

206.25

[/th][th]

70898.44

[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]

300

[/td][td]

99.90

[/td][td]

150.00

[/td][td]

14985.00

[/td][td]

600.00

[/td][td]

699.00

[/td][td]

419400.00

[/td][td]

375.00

[/td][td]

225.00

[/td][td]

84375.00

[/td][/tr][/table][/font] [/b]





Just to give you a point of refrence here are some real life Countries and States:

Region sizes:

Ithaca:______________ 37 sq. miles
Athens:_____________ 165 sq. miles
Sparta:___________ 3,000 sq. miles
Conneticut:_______ 5,543 sq. miles
Vermont:__________ 9,614 sq. miles
West Virginia:___ 24,230 sq. Miles
Mississippi: _____48,430 sq. miles
Utah: ____________84,899 sq. miles

Empire Sizes:

Texas:________ 268,601 sq. miles
Alaska:_______ 663,267 sq. miles
India: ______1,269,368 sq. miles
Australia:__ 2,940,521 sq. miles
Brazil:_____ 3,265,075 sq. miles

I am tired of looking at these tables and numbers right now, so I leave it to you guys to discuss, and I will post my thoughts after I take a break.

[Ravenspath]

Excellent work Poseidon!  :whoa:

I think this will get the debate solved in short order since we have everything to compare right there. Personally I like the scale of 1 inch equal 175 miles. That just feels right to me for either of the empires that is listed. Just over alaska size or india sized.

As for which one. I like the bigger one because, well it is bigger and an empire. But I am leaning towards the smaller one as the empire is just getting back into its groove and that is a good spot to stop and consolidate power.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Excellent work Poseidon!  :whoa:

Quoted for truth


I think the 1 inch = 200 miles is my favorite, and I like the first map (the one where the empire doesn't quite cross the land bridge).

[Túrin]

My favourites would be the second map and the 1 inch to 100 miles scale. This gives us an Empire slightly bigger than Texas. Quite big enough, if you ask me.

Túrin

[limetom]

I like the second map with the 1 inch to 150 miles scale. Medieval population densities are probably going to be like Alaska is today, so I think it would be a pretty decent size; something that could realistically be controlled.

[Poseptune]

*THUD**THUD**THUD**THUD*.....

I just realized I forgot 1 inch is 125 mile scale.


I like the smaller empire with the 175 or 200 scale. The traveling times for these scales don't seem too short or excessively long. The 100 scale allows a supply cart to get across the Empire in about four weeks, thus reinforcing and suppling an army could be done quickly. The almost double scale makes it that much harder to get supplies to the military and towns that may need them. This make the Empire growth slower, because it would take supplies about 9 weeks to get to the troops or a town in desperate need. The larger scale also makes the Empire seem like it is overstretched.

The smaller map has the Empire stopped at one choke point. This gives them the chance to crush the regions to the south, or spread across the land bridge. The larger map has the Empire stopped at three choke points, but for some reason they have already decided to leave the regions to the south alone. That doesn't make sense to me, but there could be reasons (Only the fleet in the northern sea is seaworthy, thus making the conquering of the northern coastline easier (lawful) or the empire was throwing darts at a map and said conquer here (chaotic)). I prefer the smaller Empire, but I don't hate the large Empire either.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) the table for the regions shows that the larger regions(22, 23, 24, 28, 29, 31, 33, 34, 35, and 36) are probably too large and regions 6, 7, 9, 10, and 13 are borderline. the larger regions are about an eight of the size of the Larger Empire and about a sixth of the smaller empire. Now I can cut most of these regions in half or into thirds. This would make more regions to populate, but the regions wouldn't be the size of Utah or greater. I can also leave some for larger nations. What are your thoughts? (If changes are to be made I will use a few dice rolls to see which regions get changed, because some members might be partial to a certain region (I.E. they want it when the hold is lifted.). Random selection makes it a little more fair.)

[Poseptune]

I added in the 125 scale that I missed. Now my head hurts again. If you can stand pure unadulterated evil hit qoute and look at the code for one table. It's ugly...

[Poseptune]

There is not much of a discussion if people don't discuss

Unfortunately (or fortunately) the table for the regions shows that the larger regions(22, 23, 24, 28, 29, 31, 33, 34, 35, and 36) are probably too large and regions 6, 7, 9, 10, and 13 are borderline. the larger regions are about an eight of the size of the Larger Empire and about a sixth of the smaller empire. Now I can cut most of these regions in half or into thirds. This would make more regions to populate, but the regions wouldn't be the size of Utah or greater. I can also leave some for larger nations. What are your thoughts? (If changes are to be made I will use a few dice rolls to see which regions get changed, because some members might be partial to a certain region (I.E. they want it when the hold is lifted.). Random selection makes it a little more fair.)

So far we have
1 for 100 scale and large map
1 for 150 scale and large map
1 for 200 scale and small map
1 for 175 scale and leaning toward small map
1 for either 175, or 200 and small map.

if we agree on a scale I can be that much closer to lifting the hold.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Well, honestly, it appears that there are still minimal people really participating, which means you may not get more votes.  You could always make an executive decision.  I'm not going to be disappointed in any direction we go, I would just prefer to work with the 200 scale with the small map.  If you decide on the 100 scale and large map, I'll survive, and start working on the next part :)

[Poseptune]

If I have to make a decision about the scale, then I will roll the dice and let it choose between 100, 125, 150, 175, and 200.

What about the map? Pros/Cons of each
What about the regions I pointed out? Are they too big, just right or small? Should I cut some into smaller pieces?

[Túrin]

The reason why I prefer large map and 1:100 scale is that it keeps the regions at a reasonable size (not too big) without having to create too many of them.

If we have too many regions, we won't be able to populate them all (or at least not in any reasonable space of time) which stagnates the project.

In the current setup, even with the 1:100 scale, some regions should be cut into pieces IMO. If we choose an even larger scale, we have to cut even more, making the Empire even more powerful relatively and, more importantly, increasing the number of regions that need to be filled even further. This would also make the setting seem fragmented, IMO.

Túrin

[MittenNinja]

I vote for 1:150.

[Poseptune]

I don't like the 100 scale, because it makes the Empire too small.

If all the regions are not populated, is that a bad thing? Maybe there are a few vast areas that have not been colonized or a neutral zone between civilizations.

I have been thinking about the large regions more as well. Perhaps there were a bunch of ctiy-states during the time of the Old Empire. Some have had 400 or so years to unite and form a nation (through marriage, conquering, alliance, etc..). Others have form an alliance recently because of the threat of the Empire. It would also explain some of the funny borders. This would be up to the person making the region, but I am begining to see that the bigger regions aren't that much of a problem.  It would also be a good reason why the Empire hasn't conquered more territory. Because these regions are about an eighth of the size of the Empire, they are able to hold the Empire at bay for a little longer than the smaller nations.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

That's a good point... there actually should be some areas that are considered rugged wilderness or some such.