Discussion: The World

[Jharviss]

I know I haven't been helping design this, but I've been looking over the post and I have some 2 cents I'd like to throw in, if nobody minds.

With the 1 inch = 7,500 miles bit, your world is going to be huge.  The circumference of the Earth at its widest point (AKA the equator) is almost 25,000 miles.  With the 1:7500 scale, your map is going to be 105,000 miles long.  When you were thinking of making it the world have another continent or continents, then CeBeGia is quickly going to become the size of Jupiter.

I've taken a map of the Earth and laid it on top of the CeBeGia map at the proposed scale.  Unless I'm mistaken, that map could hold more than 12 Earths, fairly easily.  Your empire is also about twice the size of the Earth.  It should take a person about 8 months to walk across the United States.  When it starts to take 5.5 years, then you're going to run into huge problems.  No nation in a fantasy world could rule over an empire that big for long.

I also wanted to point out that your Empire, at any scale, is absolutely enormous next to any other nation.  With an empire that size and that many people all under the same banner, it could conquer the world in just a few years.  Certainly those bottom four nations under the Empire will be gone in a matter of weeks.

I would combine two nations, such as 24 and 35, and say that this new nation is standing up against the New Empire and ensuring that it doesn't expand further.  

Aight, I'm done, just some thoughts.

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

EDIT by Ishmayl - Spoilerized for our convenience.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Wait, that's not right is it?  I mean, it wouldn't take 5.5 years to walk across Texas.  Did I vote for the wrong one?

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Jharviss, I think he was using a different ration than inches-to-miles?

[Poseptune]

No I used funky math. I will recalculate based on real math.

At 1:7500 the Empire would equal 2010937500 sq miles. (only a slight difference)

Thank you Jharviss, for pointing out my massive brain fart.

Please spoiler that thing. It scares me. :)


It seems people want a texas size Empire, so I will figure out what the scale of that would be.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Here's an overlay of the Empire over Texas.  That's the scale I like.  Or at most, maybe the empire the size of SE America (Florida up to North Carolina, and west to Lousianna... MAYBE).  Notice the scale at the bottom.

[Poseptune]

A Texas size Empire (including the water areas) would require a scale of 1:100 Giving an area of 357,500 sq miles.

Giving the widest part about a 650 mile stretch meaning about a 27 days walk across (using D&D rules) Texas is a 32 days walk by the same rules at the widest point.

Tallest part of the Empire is about a 22 days walk. Texas is 27 and a half days walk at the tallest point

The only problem with that overlay is that the maps I post are shrunk to about 15% of the original size. Unless you enlarge it, which it looks like you did. Is that scale an 1:200 or 1:100?

With a 1:100 we are back to a planet less than the size of Pluto... Unless we go with this is only half the planet. :) Then it is about the same size as Pluto.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Man, I don't know ;)   I'm thinking we should seriously consider either adding more to the map (on both the X and Y axis), or consider redrawing the nations and where they sit on the map.  I just don't like the empire taking up as much of the world as it does, on any scale.

Let's get the guys over at Cartographers Guild to chime in with their opinion. :)

[Poseptune]

Man, I don't know ;)   I'm thinking we should seriously consider either adding more to the map (on both the X and Y axis), or consider redrawing the nations and where they sit on the map.  I just don't like the empire taking up as much of the world as it does, on any scale.

Let's get the guys over at Cartographers Guild to chime in with their opinion. :)

In the new world, there is a single large and stable country, most likely a tyranny of some sort, it's benevolence is questionable. This tyranny occupies the majority, if not all of a large landmass. This tyranny also possesses a "regular" fantasy religion, a polytheistic single pantheon of deities pictured as very powerful humanoid beings.

:P I'm just pointing it out. That one line is easily changed. How big were you thinking for the Empire? Not past the first land bridge? I can change the map as we see fit.


More input is always welcomed.

[Túrin]

I just don't like the empire taking up as much of the world as it does, on any scale.

What, exactly, would be the problem with such a thing? As Poseidon pointed out, it is what we decided upon (though that doesn't mean it's set in stone, of course).

[spoiler=Nitpicking over definition of scale]Also, what's the deal with the scale? 1:100 means one inch equals 100 miles? That doesn't make sense! A scale is written as a fraction for a reason. 1:100 should mean one inch equals 100 inches, or one mile equals 100 miles, or, basically, that you'd have a life-size map of the world if you'd enlarge the map by a factor of 100.[/spoiler]

Túrin

[Poseptune]

I am writing the scale like that just as a short cut. :)

the correct RF would be 1:6336000. But for our layman purposes I am writing one inch is one hundred miles as 1:100, unless it is really a problem.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

I'll survive :)

[Poseptune]

I'll survive :)

If you want to change something now is the time. The map is far from finalized.

[amikaligula]

I also wanted to point out that your Empire, at any scale, is absolutely enormous next to any other nation.  With an empire that size and that many people all under the same banner, it could conquer the world in just a few years.  Certainly those bottom four nations under the Empire will be gone in a matter of weeks.

but the problem is keeping its territories.  it takes enormous amounts of resources to maintain an enormous empire.  that said, there is still the possibility of a resource surge into the military in the hopes of a quick and final conquest.  therefore there must be factors that prevent this from happening.

First, perhaps there was a recent all out invasion attempt by the empire, but it was not completely successful.  Say that the bottom four countries managed to hold out until a rebellion along a crucial resource line managed to weaken the empire's forces.  that is not to say that the invasion was a complete failure, as many new territories were added, just that it was not a complete victory, as free territories still remain.  Still, suppose that many of the newly conquered territory was once in alliance with the territories that managed to hold out, who are now smuggling resources to the newly conquered territories.  As far as the difficulty of this task, well,if the leaders managed to hold out and survive against the empire, they have a good idea of what they are doing and a lot of skill to go along with this.

As the empire does not have unlimited magical resources, but rather, merely have enormous and powerful military prowess, there will no quick and final solution (thinking of the magical "deathstar" solution), but instead a war where the empire is constantly putting out fires in its own home territories and merely keeping pressure on the free lands so as to wage a war of attrition

additionally, geographic factors could make an invasion very difficult, as well as magical factors.  for instance, the confederacy of free nations (which i think is a better alternative than combining countries into one big one, as it keeps a good variety of totem animals) is on the other side of a group of high mountains with many passes filled with exploding runes.  and the coast impossible to land on or is mostly dessert with magics that make most lost.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Okay, well I'm probably in the minority, but I really  picture this a bit differently.  Maybe my opinions have changed since we first spoke of the core ethos loooooong ago, or maybe I just didn't speak up when I should have.  

So, as far as the continent goes, I think the empire is fine occupying that much landmass as long as the world is much larger.  I just don't think we can justify saying the empire is "in decline" or "doesn't have the power it once held" if it occupies 1/4 of the world's landmass.  An empire of that size would either have pretty much absolute control over the majority of the world's resources, or would actively be trying to take control of said resources.  They would have a literally unstoppable army, in terms of pure numbers (China, anyone?), and they would not be having to fight for their borders.  Our empire, on the other hand, is said to be in decline, is said to be wanting more power than it can sustain, and wants to relive the glory days of Ancient Empire.  Our empire could not own 1/4 of the planet's landmass, unless they were on the verge of losing it as the campaign started, due to corruption, rivaling factions, and constant attacks against-and-from other countries (or city-states).

 Therefore, I propose that we keep the map as drawn, and say that the major continent we see is in the NW hemisphere of a much larger planet, much like North America in our world.  Then, we go ahead and set a planet size in stone.  Just for numbers' sake, let's say the planet's diameter is say, 3000 miles (about the size of Mercury).  Thus, that gives us a circumference of roughly 9400 miles.  Divided in half is 4700 miles, which would be the width of our map we have thus far.  That makes our empire roughly 1600 miles across at its longest point.  That's a pretty massive empire right there - taking into account the water displacing some of the landmass, you're looking at somewhere around 2 million square miles, which is a good bit larger than India, and a bit smaller than Australia.  If you include the water (which empires often do), it's about 2.5 million square miles.  Keep in mind that 2 million square miles is larger than the 10 largest states of the US put together (Alaska, Texas, California, Montana, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, Oregon, and Wyoming).

So, with all that rambling and math aside, I'm just suggesting we consider enlarging the planet.  Let's say the map we have is the NW hemisphere of our planet, and there are 3 other hemisphere which have not been drawn (and for all I care, have not been explored either, meaning we don't need to draw them right now).

Just trying to think logistically here.

[Túrin]

Trying to make sense of what you just said there. You're arguing to make the Empire smaller (at least relative to the size of the world) and at the same to make it bigger (in absolute terms: 10 states is much bigger than just Texas), right?

Alright, I agree with the former, and disagree with the latter. I think we should keep the scale that puts the Empire at Texas' size (I think that was one inch to a hundred miles?) and keep the map as is, but add other continents to make the planet Mercury- or Mars-sized.

Túrin