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Join the Literary Revolution

Started by Seraph, February 06, 2007, 08:04:50 PM

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Seraph

Quote from: Stargate525
Quote from: Salacious AngelHaha.  It's particularly bad when you're the only black kid in your highschool, and rather than consciously deride you, all the other students hold this unquashable delusion that you're a gangsta, and think that's awesome.  That's not awesome.  It's an insult.  If there's one Western culture that has successfully turned self-limitation and self-loathing into an artform, it's rap culture.  I used to wish those kids would just start throwing racial epithets at me so that they had no cause for surprise when I socked them in the jaw.

As it was, they were surprised...

The worst thing about rap - for me - is not the misogynism, or the glorification of violence, but rather the confusion of those artists when they wonder why the world outside their ghettos does not respect them.  Claiming God's on their side when they rise to the top of the criminal underworld (and top or not, the undwerorld's still the UNDERworld)?  Crying for salvation then hurling hot lead into children's bedrooms on the impetus on some juvenile fued?

To speak nothing of pop music!
So we're mobilizing against rap music as well?

Sure, why not?
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SA

But one must always keep clear in one's mind the reason for opposition, for too often does aversion endure beyond the memory of the thing opposed.  Thus would our own goodness be consumed by our loathing, and we would become the image of that very thing.

limetom

I personally hesitate to condemn rap outright.  Sure, the most popular and best selling form of rap, gangster rap, tends to glorify violence and objectify women, but I don't agree that all rap is that way and that all rap should be gone forever.

I personally don't listen to very much rap, but I do get pretty close.  Listen to the lyrics of Zack de la Rocha, front man of Rage Against the Machine.  He quite obviously raps (to the backing of a metal band, rather than a DJ), but  he doesn't glorify any of the issues why you all said "Rap is Evil," except to satirize them.  Take the song Revolver.  He criticizes domestic violence, specifically pointing out the arrogance of it.  Lyrics such as: "His spit is worth more than her work / Pass the purse to the pugilist ... Hey revolver, don't mothers make good fathers?" don't really seem to be promoting misogyny or the loss of family values.

I say don't generalize about anything.  Period.

limetom

Here are my thoughts...

You live with the wool pulled over your eyes, and it feels so soft and warm you don't really care too much.  CNN, or whoever you get your â,¬Å"unbiasedâ,¬Â news from, shows you someone dying somewhere else from whatever it is this week: war, starvation, disease, genocide, whatever.  You'll stand up and say, â,¬Å"This is horrible, somebody should do something.â,¬Â  Then, you'll sit back down.  That is your life.  You are too afraid to simply do something, and it's starting to show.

â,¬Å"Stress can be defined as the sum of physical and mental responses to an unacceptable disparity between real or imagined personal experience and personal expectations. By this definition, stress is a response which includes both physical and mental components.â,¬Â

â,¬Å"Mental responses to stress include adaptive (â,¬Å"goodâ,¬Â) stress, anxiety, and depression. Where stress enhances function, either physical or mental, it may be considered good stress. However, if stress persists and is of excessive degree, it eventually leads to a need for resolution, which may lead either to anxious (escape) or depressive (withdrawal) behavior.â,¬Â


-Wikipedia, Stress

People seem to like to avoid confrontation.  However, this really only holds true when you are not in a superior position to the person, or, to a lesser degree, when you are in an equal position to the other person.  Sometimes, such positions can be very easy to define, like a boss and a subordinate.  Your boss has had a bad day.  You come in to work late.  Ordinarily, he wouldn't care, but today he chews you out.  Now you are having a bad day.  

Other times, these positions are muddied, like a worker and a customer.  You get off work, still upset with your boss for chewing you out.  You go to a fast food place for dinner.  The guy working at the counter makes an honest mistake and screws your order up.  You could let it go and just deal with it, but most people don't.  You could let him know politely that he made a mistake, but not today.  You're worn out, stressed out, and this is the last straw.  You chew the guy out because your double cheeseburger without onions had onions.

You let it get to you, in the worst way.  And, as much as you'd like to, you can't deny that it felt good.  It feels good to exert power.  Who cares it if was at someone else's expense?  If they don't like it, well, too bad.

â,¬Å"I tagged a first-timer one night at fight club.  That Saturday night, a young guy with an angel's face came to his first fight club, and I tagged him for a fight.  That's the rule.  If it's your first night at fight club, you have to fight.  I knew that so I tagged him because the insomnia was on again, and I was in a mood to destroy something beautiful.â,¬Â

â,¬Å"Since most of my face never gets a chance to heal, I've got nothing to lose in the looks department.  My boss, at work, he asked me what I was doing about the hole through my cheek that never heals.  When I drink coffee, I told him, I put two fingers over the hole so it won't leak.â,¬Â

â,¬Å"There's a sleeper hold that gives somebody just enough air to stay awake, and that night at fight club, I hit our first-timer and hammered that beautiful mister angel face, first with bony knuckles of my fist like a pounding molar, and then with the knotted tight butt of my fist after my knuckles were raw from his teeth stuck through his lips.  Then the kid fell through my arms in a heap.â,¬Â

â,¬Å"Tyler told me later that he'd never seen me destroy something so completely.â,¬Â


-Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club

People are starting to break from the stress, though.  And not just when it's to someone lower than them.  Take road rage.  Our guy from before, still mad after a bad day at work and, in his mind, a wholly incompetent fast food place, gets cut off by Average Joe.  Average Joe was on his cell phone, not really paying attention, and simply cut it a little close.  Our angry salary man gets upset, and tailgates Average Joe.  They both cut off Average Jill.  She gets upset, and we now have the three car pileup on the seven o'clock news.  None of these people are in a position any different than the others.  They're all just random drivers, on a random road.  Getting cut off, while somewhat dangerous, is nothing to get that upset about.

Let's take this in another direction.  Let's say Average Jill calms down a bit before she gets to her exit.  She decides it isn't worth it, and goes home.  Our salary man, however, is still angry at Average Joe.  They both get off at the same exit.  Average Joe gets to the red light first, with our salary man right behind.  Average Joe finishes his cell phone conversation, as our salary man walks up to his window.  Average Joe looks over to see an angry looking man standing outside his door.  He rolls down his window to see what the problem is, but he can't even get a word in before our salary man gives him the tongue-lashing of his life.  Average Joe tries to be apologetic, but the only thing that gets our salary man back in his car is the light change.  Now four people are having a bad day because one person took his stress out on someone else.

What did they gain from this?  A short feeling of catharsis.  And putting another person down.  A great way to live, right?   A positive feedback system is where a system responds to change in the same direction or manner as the change.  Stress, in societal terms, is usually a positive feedback system.  You get stressed out, you usually stress some one else out.  It feeds off of itself.

People don't get that this builds up until you break.  When you break, you get release, but in the worst way.  Don't let it build up.  Ignore the guy yelling at you from outside your car, he has road rage.  Behind that, he's stressed because nothing is going his way.  He got cut off trying to drive home after work and dinner.  The kid at the fast food place screwed his order up.  His boss was an ass because he had a bad day.

â,¬Å"Fear is a basic human emotion... [that] occurs during the manifestation of a real or perceived attack on the system, its evolutionary purpose being to incite the system to react. Fear also can be described as a feeling of extreme dislike towards certain conditions, objects, people, or situations such as: fear of darkness, fear of ghosts, etc. Personal fear varies extremely in degree from mild caution to extreme phobia and paranoia. Fears may be a factor within a larger social network, wherein personal fears are synergetically compounded as mass hysteria.â,¬Â

-Wikipedia, Fear

Everybody knows fear.  Knows what scares them.  Maybe a loud noise that you weren't expecting.  Or being on a ledge high up.  Or maybe not so high up.  Everyone gets scared sometimes.  Fear can be used.  It can coerce people.  When someone holds a gun up to your head and demands that you give them all your money, there are three typical reactions.  The main one that most humans will take is a hysterical reaction.  They'll freeze up.  They'll cry and plead not to be shot.  Maybe they'll piss themselves.  Maybe they'll try to run away.  The second-most common is to simply give into the demands.  You aren't hysterical, but you're not stupid either.  There's a gun to your head.  It's probably a good idea to do most anything whoever is holding the gun says.  These two are the so-called â,¬Å"flightâ,¬Â response to fear.  The least common reaction, one that usually has to be trained into people, is to fight back.  You get the gun so it's line of fire is away from you, and whatever you do, you don't let it's line of fire back on to you.  This is the so-called â,¬Å"fightâ,¬Â response to fear.

But this isn't the only way fear is used.  We live, every day, under some kind of fear.  And now there are visible reminders of this fear.  Many cars and homes have alarm systems.  Most people who can afford a car or house alarm live in neighborhoods where the crime rate is very low.  But, if you ask them, it is very important that they have an alarm.  You never know in this kind of neighborhood when something might happen.

Every day the media helps remind us that we need to be afraid.  They show us all the bad stuff that happens all over the world.  Some of them even can do it instantly, twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.  And if you ask them, these are the only important stories.  They say that nobody wants to hear about how a teenager helps out an old lady every week with her groceries.  Or about the parents who work two jobs each to send their kids to school.  Nobody thinks that stuff is important... right?

And the government does it's job too.  We pay taxes, we should get our fear-return on investment.  They even color-coded it to make it easy for us.  You better be careful today, I heard the color went from orange-red with more orange to red-orange today.  It just became a little more likely that something bad might happen somewhere, at sometime, in the foreseeable future.  They must get some great information to predict things like that, I'll bet.

In short, we now exist in a culture of both justified and manufactured fear.

When is the last time you talked to your neighbor?  How about the person two doors down?  When is the last time your neighborhood, apartment, or whatever had a party for everybody?  When is the last time you said â,¬Å"Hiâ,¬Â to a perfect stranger and they didn't give you a weird look?  Are you yourself ever suspicious of strangers?  The common answers to these questions are a little disconcerting.

If you have a front porch, how often do you use it?  I'll bet not very often.  Is it right at the sidewalk, or is it far away?  The richer you are, usually, the farther it is away from the sidewalk.  How about the distance between your house and your neighbor's house?  Aside from condos and apartments, there is a very obvious trend here.  Row homes and town homes, generally places for the lower and middle classes, are right next to one another.  As houses go further up on the property scale, so does the space between them.  I lived in a town home.  My neighbors were just on the other side of two walls.  Richer people might have 3 or 5 meters in between their homes.

In short, we now exist in a culture of isolation.


To be continued...

Seraph

Quote from: Salacious AngelBut one must always keep clear in one's mind the reason for opposition, for too often does aversion endure beyond the memory of the thing opposed.  Thus would our own goodness be consumed by our loathing, and we would become the image of that very thing.
It's not going to be easy to win you over, is it? ;) I like that.  You consistently display your intelligence.  You hae a very good point.  We should not lose sight of the reasons and be sure that, if rap were to be included as a target, there is a good reason for it.  Perhaps we should hold off for now and focus on Emo.  As to the reasoning, you yourself articulated the points as well as any of us for opposing it.  The revolution continues!
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SA

I am in agreeance on the generalisation remark.  In truth, the rapper Nas is one of my favourite artists (sounds a little like "some of my best friends ar black", doesn't it?).  I would never condemn a movement outright, for in truth most have noble intentions.  It is of great importance to find those intentions and amplify them, ridding oneself of the illness that is inspired by its less savoury parts.

That is to say that style, more often than not, is an innocent thing.  It is its use in the presentation of content that proves a worry.

Interesting post, limetom.  I will confess it is no news to me, but it is always of use to have such truths reinforced.

SA

You know what?  Having thought it over, I find no need for revolution.  I see no danger in this "pop-maudlin" craze, nor, ultimately, in the folly of our ghetto brothers.  What better revolution is there than to shine our passions brighter than the gloomy half-light of those who would defame their own existence?  And that is no revolution at all, but "merely" an affirmation.

Désirent ardemment la vie de phase

Seraph

Quote from: Salacious AngelYou know what?  Having thought it over, I find no need for revolution.  I see no danger in this "pop-maudlin" craze, nor, ultimately, in the folly of our ghetto brothers.  What better revolution is there than to shine our passions brighter than the gloomy half-light of those who would defame their own existence?  And that is no revolution at all, but "merely" an affirmation.

Désirent ardemment la vie de phase
Well, even taking such actions as to merelhy shine one's passions brighter is to join the revolt against apathy, if nothing else.  
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Túrin

In the Netherlands we have a development in music usually called "Nederhop" (Dutch hiphop). I'm not really into that, but I know of this song called "Zelfrespect" (respect for self) which is precisely about the themes the OP brought up. I'd find a songtext and post it, but unfortunately it's in Dutch. It seems somewhat appropriate so here are some rough translations of some lines:

Everybody in your surrounding seems so happy, so you think it's your own fault, you think you're the only one who feels bad, and that you must deserve that for some reason. But this is really a matter of selfrespect.

When someone wants to cheer you up you shy away.

You think you're the only one with feelings.

You need to work on your self-conscience.
You'll never find someone if you can't love yourself.
Self-respect is the key to success.
So arm yourself against insecurity and stress.
You are your only enemy.
Negative thinking is tearing you up.
Listen to the advice of a friend.
Convince yourself you deserve better.

Don't talk bullshit like "you don't get it".
That I've never taken drugs doesn't mean I've never felt as bad as you.
That I never attempted suicide doesn't mean I never thought of it, but I always try to solve my problems instead of running from them.
The best solution is rarely the easiest.

Don't pretend you're the only one.
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"Then shall the last battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Melko, and on his right shall stand Fionwe and on his left Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, Conqueror of Fate; and it shall be the black sword of Turin that deals unto Melko his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Hurin and all men be avenged." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Shaping of Middle-Earth

Hibou

QuoteEverybody in your surrounding seems so happy, so you think it's your own fault, you think you're the only one who feels bad, and that you must deserve that for some reason. But this is really a matter of selfrespect.

If I had a penny for every time one of the many emo kids at my old high school showed that they believed like that, well... I'd have a mol of pennies. An example was this friend of mine. She was a hardcore emo listener, and a closet lesbian, too afraid to come out about it even though people really liked her for the most part. She eventually told me that she was (and I was one of the few who knew). Later on, she had a tough emotional experience that I won't elaborate on that got her revved up and caused her to open up about a lot of her problems and troubles she was having. What was more interesting was that I had previously in my life experienced a lot of the same troubles with my parents, friends, and goals. When I told her I understood, however, she grew extremely frustrated at the idea. Seems emos would prefer that people don't understand them no matter how simple or complex something is, so that they have something to complain about.

I'm totally for the anti-emo movement. If there are two things that I despise more than anything else, they're the depressing "I hate the world because the world hates me" emo dogma and the similar, equally depressing and perhaps more overdone death metal/black metal/whatever you want to call it. If you want to listen to music that expresses how you feel when you're down and experiencing teenage troubles, listen to country, rock, pop, or anything else. A genre doesn't need to be made specifically for it.

More on this later.
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Raelifin

I get a very bad feeling when I read this thread. I won't bother to quote, but it seems like some of what this "revolution" is about is attacking other people. Now I'm wondering whether this is justified at all. I don't think that the ideas presented in the first post are super healthy, but be sure that you understand what you criticize.

The best example of this, in my mind, is how limetom pointed out how apathy is a very good thing in our society. Apathy is a shield to use against violent accusations or judgments, for if we were empathetic with every angry soul we met, some days would end up very poor indeed. Instead, what should be avoided is the habitual overdose of apathy, where it becomes natural to block out the good and the bad. Be sure that while I oppose the overuse of apathy, I'm not going to claim it is always a bad thing or attack the people who have such a problem.

Back again to emo. I think we've got to understand why emo exists. After all, nothing is done without reason, so there must be something that is gained through such a behavior.

Emo, in my mind consists of the artistic style of melancholy brooding, the social niche that developed out of such art, and the title which is applied to someone who is seen as being a member of such a niche.

Firstly, many people who I have heard called "emo" have serious emotional issues. I think we can all discount the person who is emotionally scarred as NOT being emo, because they have a serious injury rather than a perceived or fabricated one.

The emo culture is the next target to understand. I think that it is once more, important to understand the motivations of the members of such a group. Most of these individuals are youths who feel alienated or attacked by society. The underlying purpose of such a group becomes clear when what these youths accomplish is a feeling of acceptance and a freedom from loneliness. Is it then wise to attack such individuals? Clearly the environment in which they exist is detrimental to their greater happiness, but the problem is a lack of comfort on a personal level. If you really want to help remove the emo culture, you need to figure out some way for each of these people to be happy without needing to come together in a group bound by pain.

Lastly, there is the question of whether the artistic side is damaging to society. I say it is not. Art needs to have comedy and tragedy, and if self-expression through melancholy art helps a person, good for them. It would hardly look good to damn the presenter of ideas for "corrupting" the viewer. It is each persons choice to accept or reject ideas presented to them.

 :2cents:

Seraph

Personally, I don't see what limetom described as apathy.  What limetom described was more of a conscious decision not to let something get to you.  It's quite healthy to be able to say that just because someone else is having a bad day doesn't mean you have to too.  

I define apathy as the dull and complete lack of care, interest, and initiative.  Apathy is not when you decide not to get angry.  Apathy is when you don't give a damn about anything.  Nothing is interesting to you, nothing is important.  That is what I see as apathy, when you can see the world going to hell, know that the world is going to hell, and not care; when you can your whole life fall to pieces and not care.  That is what I oppose.
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SA

Good point Raelifin, and it is for this reason that I find myself guarded against such notions as "revolution".  As I stated before, I find it best to persuade through the exhibition of positive qualities than to strike against those I deem negative (sometimes it's the only way that works, though).  For one, it is always important to remember that any person seems all the more damning when we fail to divide them from their ideologies.  For the sake of "that thing they do", we would mock them entirely, and I will not have that (thus the danger of generalisations).  I have suffered such failings many times, and do not wish to do so again.

But I agree with Seraph's counterpoint to the whole apathy jive.  Limetom described active restraint, while Raelifin describes casual, dispassionate lack of concern.  I will not utterly discredit the merit of this, for the idea of "Cool" was built upon the idea of being unfettered.  However, it is such a notion of apathy which also compels many of us not to lift ourselves up.  Some who perceive such destructive inaction (and it is destructive) will revile it, thinking them petty or lazy.  I, however, am saddened by it, for here we have youths (and this definition may encompass a great many years) who have taken their woes - wholly repairable woes - and chosen the road of perpetual lamentation.  These youths whose friends have deserted them, or whose parents are divorced, or who think themselves unfit for this consumer world.  The fault lies precisely in inaction, for while I will not deny the pleasures of melancholy (those of you who have been deeply depressed will know full well how one seeks further the that emotion that fills them, making it a terror to overcome), I know that it is better to rise beyond it.  To repair the broken bonds of friendship or seek new companions, to gain the love of each parent individual if not as a singular whole, to seek a new culture for yourself which does not strive only to mock or stand apart from another.

So I say it is the fault of inaction, but I do not say that it is their fault, for it is a problem, as we begin to discover, perpetuated by many institutions.  The concept of consumer culture, for instance, has become a pejorative, a system in which we take take take, and through the illusion of money, profess to give give give.  The conundrum comes in this society's own contradiction.  Almost as a disclaimer, we say that wealth is not important, but rather love, charity and goodwill.  But you would not think it to see the machinations of our culture.  I have seen young women (actual women, not little girls calling themselves thus, which is an altogether different problem) who beautify themselves to the point of nausea, tell unattractive women that "looks aren't everything", or that "people will see their inner light".  Their justifications of their own actions are inane: "oh, I know such things are true, but I have to do this to get by in the world."

Again, the criticism is aimed against the entirety: them as components of said society, but moreso their environment - our environment - even myself (for I confess that I, like many of you, am a facilitator).

So we have these youths presented with an impossibility.  Their world tells them so many things, such that it is a world that seemingly could not exist if its peoples but recognised the truth of their situation.  It is a world that professes the innocence of the child, then popularises 15-year-old sex objects (anyone remember JoJo?), that lauds individuality, then contrives to sweep us up in a swathe of shallow consumer craze.  There is only one solution for such youths, who in all their life have not been given sufficient tools to wisely contend with this deluge of unquaffable kitsch.  They step away, into themselves, into a little shadow-world of their own (just thinking about this gets me hungry for an allegorical setting of like themes).

It is of no help that humanity is so inclined towards rebellion.  For whatever reason, we find it easier to rage against than to smile with open arms.  Thus it is the first logical tactic for the disillusioned, their final grasp at some semblance of individuality, to scream "I will not stand with you, or for you!"  But it solves nothing, for most have not the facilities to find themselves another worthy place to exist, nor do many of them truly want to (nor should they need to).  Even worse that rebellion is subtly (and sometimes not) encouraged by society, the irony then being that rebellion is itself no rebellion, only a covert stumble into the multifarious abysm of "rebel culture".

(That rebellion should be a culture is perhaps the saddest thing of all.  Dystopian in the extreme, for now it seems even our capacity for defiance becomes but another act of complicity)

It is, then, a problem with roots dug deep into the flesh of our culture.  Through a liberal seasoning of doublethink and no small quantity of shameless denial, we permit things that we outwardly condemn as wrong, or simply muddle our minds with paradoxes.  Emo is a misdirected struggle against such nonsensical living.  I think, then, that it is not the-thing-itself that must be opposed, for if you cure the symptoms you have not cured the disease.  Emo is a symptom.  A symptom of a dangerous, self-engineered destruction.  Strange, then, that for all their error I see the nobility of their cause.  What is lacked is a better means.

Gremlin

Wow.  You guys are brilliant here.  Salacious Angel and limetom in particular.  Your views on all this are quite fascinating.  I only wish I could say something relatively intelligent to add to this discussion, but I can't really think of anything that hasn't already been said in a much more thoughtful way than what I could come up with.
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Raelifin

Well, SA, I feel that I understand your general opinions. I must admit, however, that I am having great difficulty understanding the individual points presented in your post. Could you please see if you could re-write your ideas for those who don't have four ranks in decipher script? :)