Datrik Discussion Thread

[Xathan]

The aberrations (there's no way I'm gonna try to spell their names Ytholasomethingorother) seem really cool and really nasty. The only thing I think is kind of cheesy are the tentacles that end in mouths. I think they should end in scalpal-like hooks, cuz it's creepier.

I like how there are lots of rumors, but no hard facts about when, why, and how they came to Datrik. That's perfect for anyone who actually wants to DM something in the setting. Leaving some of the details in the hands of the indivudual who runs the game is great, and enables you as the writer to keep your options open too.[/quote]I haven't checked out the Incarnum stuff yet, but that's just because the whole system turns my stomach. For the sanctity of Datrik however, I will do it anyway. Everything else is so great, that I'll have to give them a fair shot I suppose; you haven't let me down yet Xathan.[/quote]

I'm really interested in your thoughts on Incarnum: I'm divorcing it entirely from alignment, since that cheese reeked of "Hey, let's make these more suited for Minis than for actual RP," but the system was interesting enough to me to keep it in there. Basically, I hated incarnum at first for the alignment bull, and the "using souls" thing - WTF is up with that? I made Incarnates instead embody the fundemental truth behind things, allowing me to create Uncarnates (who badly need to be renamed) who embody the anti-truth, which is sort of like a fundemental lie. Basically, an Incarnate is various truths made incarnate, as the name implies. I'm trying to reflavor it for people who hate the flavor like you and I, so I hope I can breathe a breath of fresh air into this system for you. :)

[Xathan]

Ok, since we here in Datrik are setting of the week, I have some thoughts to post.

Races: I'm more and more dissatisfied with my races, except for the Tuorth. I want the races to each embody some principals of Datrik. The Tuorth show the untamed savagery of the lowerlands, and the rest showâ,¬Â¦what? Iâ,¬,,¢m not going to scrap them as races, just not sure the Glimmerfolk and Rathians really do anything for Datrik. Meanwhile, the Tirkiki are going to be made more horrifying and put on the surface as an Alien race. Iâ,¬,,¢m going to make Vampires play a large role in Datirk, and allow them to breed with humans. (Vampires will be a monsterous race more than a template). As a result, Iâ,¬,,¢m going to add a vampire blooded race, as well as an aberration blooded race, and then something else. Four now races follows the Eberron model, and I like that way of adding races.

Sanity: Iâ,¬,,¢m thinking adding sanity rules into Datrik, to fit the whole setting better. Iâ,¬,,¢m not sure if I like the existing sanity rules, but Iâ,¬,,¢m not sure how else to do it. Anyone know of any good d20 sanity systems out there? Or ideas for them?

Tech: Iâ,¬,,¢d love new tech ideas; Iâ,¬,,¢m stuck on this more than anything else. Iâ,¬,,¢m making golemtech = cybernetics, but I need help on vehicles, weapons, and armor. Iâ,¬,,¢m thinking of Carapace armor, which would be like powered armor but bound to your life force. Not sure how to handle that mechanically, and I would like to keep it separate from Golemtech.

[Elven Doritos]

Ok, since we here in Datrik are setting of the week, I have some thoughts to post.

Sanity: Iâ,¬,,¢m thinking adding sanity rules into Datrik, to fit the whole setting better. Iâ,¬,,¢m not sure if I like the existing sanity rules, but Iâ,¬,,¢m not sure how else to do it. Anyone know of any good d20 sanity systems out there? Or ideas for them?

There's the open-source one from Unearthed Arcana. Woo-hoo for the OGL!

Oh, and I just read you may not like that one. I think it works fine, but that's just me. :)

[Xathan]

There's the open-source one from Unearthed Arcana. Woo-hoo for the OGL!

Oh, and I just read you may not like that one. I think it works fine, but that's just me. :)

I'm thinking of using it. I just think it feels too...rigid, inflexible. I'm not sure, I'm definitely going to give it another look over.

[Raelifin]

"They spend the darktimes, the nights of the lowerlands, out hunting in the darkness. By day, they congregate in cities called dens, where they keep the young and the weak."

Can you explain some about what causes the darktimes and daytimes in the lowerlands? I can't find anything about it.

[Xathan]

Wow, I can't believe I never posted about Brightmoss, the source of light for the lowerlands. Here's a blurb from awhile back, though it needs to be developed more:

Brightmoss:

Brightmoss comes in two varieties, sunmoss and glowmoss.  The source of most of the lowerlands light, sunmoss is a naturally bioluminescent fungus that sheds a light blue light and grows only on the ceiling of the lowerlands. Sunmoss goes through a cycle, gradually growing brighter for ten hours and then growing dimmer for twelve, giving Datrik a somewhat lopsided day/night cycle. Most creatures have adapted their day/night cycles to the brightmoss cycle. At its brightest, the light is similar to that of an overcast day, and at its darkest, the light it releases is slightly brighter than a night lit by the full moon.

Glowmoss grows more sporadically, usually in patches on the â,¬Ëfloorâ,¬,,¢ of the lowerlands. Unlike sunmoss, glowmoss gives off a steady light that is equivalent to the light of a torch. Many cities keep rocks covered in glowmoss hanging from buildings as a light source during night, and travelers keep glowmoss encrusted rocks as a safer, longer lasting alternative to torches.

[Epic Meepo]

I'm thinking of using [insanity]. I just think it feels too...rigid, inflexible. I'm not sure, I'm definitely going to give it another look over.

Regarding sanity, there are actually several variants of the base sanity system in Unearthed Arcana all rolled into one, but I'd be wary.  Many of the harsher versions make some degree of crippling insanity almost entirely inevitable while the rest seem to make insanity little more than a minor annoyance.

I'd almost rather see a "paranoia" system instead of a sanity system.  The more wierd things a character sees, the jumpier he gets, represented by some shifting modifier to various checks (instead of just dumping long-term, debilitating mental illnesses on PCs when they reach their breaking points).

Of course, that would require developing some sort of new "paranoia" mechanic instead of using existing sanity mechanics, so I'm not sure if you really want to bother.  But then again, the sanity mechanic was designed for the orginal Call of Cthulu game and, IMHO, doesn't translate well into the d20 System.

[Xathan]

The paranoia mechanic idea you mentioned sounds closer to what I had in mind. I don't want the PCs just going stark raving mad a certian point. I'll definatly play around with that idea, thanks for the inspiration.  

[Lmns Crn]

So, there is a lot here that I really like, and a lot that I don't get-- likely as a result of being unfamiliar with most auxillary books from WotC. Essentia and Incarnum are mysteries to me, and I really can't comment intelligently on them without more background.

I am loving the change of venue to underground, as opposed to something more traditional. It's a big effect of something very complicated-- you've done lots of things here to create a sense of "otherness" in the setting that will be memorable to players and disconcerting to characters.

I wonder about societies underground. What kind of civilization is there? What sort of cultures exist among the people, or is it a free-for-all to survive? How do the different races really fit in (or, as you point out, do they at all?)

[Xathan]

For me, the latter question is the hardest part. I have four visions of underground society for Datrik in my head, and I might include all four. I know that there has to be civilization, to facilitate the development, production, and use of advanced technology, but other than that I'm waffling.

Culture type one is a survival culture, where might makes right and the strongest survive. It is a free for all, usually made from when military units escaped the Voidfall but had no way of contacting other civilization, and therefore degenerated into barbarianism.

Culture type two is a transplant culture, where the people just tried to restart their old surface culture from before, only in a new context. This has been met with varying degrees of success, with some, especially agricultural cultures, failing miserably, while others, especially militaristic cultures, working spectacularly.

Culture Type Three is a culture that sprung up anew in the Lowerlands, or a culture of peoples native to the lowerlands. These tend to not have much history, even among the native races, though they have a lot more history than the ones formed by non-natives.

Culture type four is a scavenger culture that came across some of the lowerlands ruins, inhabited them, and claimed them as their own. These ruins are often inhabited by things, though, so the cultures survival largely depends on what inhabits the ruins and how long until they awake it.

Those are the thoughts I have for now, but I need to develop more, especially some specific cultures.  

[DeeL]

This is a very evocative and creepy setting.  Kudos.

Okay, let's get down to business.  You mentioned earlier being a little ambivalent about the place of psionics in Datrik.  Have you neglected the Power Word: Rename option?  With a little work - which might not be to your taste, I know - psionics could simply be a more refined form of Warlockism, with warlocks as written being the remnant of the original specially-bred strain and psions, &etc being Arcanists or Eldrich, calling upon more versatile forms of the same substance.  

I absolutely love your treatment of Incarnum.  And yes, I am going to rip it for my own setting in some way, might rename the 'alignments' or something.  I hope you don't mind.

Speaking of alignments, you mentioned earlier the possibility of using the Eberron model of using alignments for just a few spells and creature types.  PLEASE DON'T.  If you use alignments, play them.  If you don't, pitch them in the dustbin and get on with the game.  (Eberron's alignment situation infuriates me.  I've said it before, I'll undoubtedly say it again - a monarch who signs a peace treaty and then proceeds to secretly foment war is not a Good person.)

Regarding cybertech/golemtech - do you have access to Chaositech, from the good lunatics at Malhavoc Press?  All about how Lovecraftian critters from beyond are introducing new 'additions' to the natural life forms of the material plane as step one in 'breaking the seals'... rename a few things and tinker with the fluff, and I think you'll find what you're looking for.  

Speaking of natural life, what about water and food?  Do the lowerlands have extensive supplies of fresh water?  Or even salt?  And what is the basis of the food chain down there?  And how is it changing?  Is everyone slowly eating away at the various fungi, adding another layer of desperation to the already desperationy atmosphere, or has a supply of fast-growing easily cultivated 'shroom that makes a good bread and beer been found?

As for what the Glimmerfolk and Rathians contribute to the setting, here are my thoughts - the Glimmerfolk are the reminders of beauty, in a world getting slowly uglier.  Instillers of hope, even as they find themselves in regions where they cannot hope to thrive.  And the Rathians are reminders of a different kind - reminders of strength.  The resilience of those who cling to the old ways mocks the void, and the foresight of those who move on to new ways enlivens the spirit, and stirs the resolve.

As for vampire blooded characters - the traditional name for such beings is dampir, and there are several versions in various d20 sources.  Were you thinking of using one of those, or of making your own race?

Edit:  Oh yeah, and as for me, my new favorite word is humanoidanity.

[Raelifin]

Questions:
How big is a Jauntrat?
What does Rilan look like?
Does "Third, he can scry and tread without mirrors, the only known being to do so." mean that you've removed Psionic Teleport?
What is Gorctho?
Wouldn't the Ynothlosh, being uncarnum, be illusions?

Also, I don't read through discussion threads. Is there content here that hasn't been moved to the big thread?

[Xathan]

Okay, let's get down to business. You mentioned earlier being a little ambivalent about the place of psionics in Datrik. Have you neglected the Power Word: Rename option? With a little work - which might not be to your taste, I know - psionics could simply be a more refined form of Warlockism, with warlocks as written being the remnant of the original specially-bred strain and psions, &etc being Arcanists or Eldrich, calling upon more versatile forms of the same substance.

I absolutely love your treatment of Incarnum. And yes, I am going to rip it for my own setting in some way, might rename the 'alignments' or something. I hope you don't mind.[/quote]Speaking of alignments, you mentioned earlier the possibility of using the Eberron model of using alignments for just a few spells and creature types. PLEASE DON'T. If you use alignments, play them. If you don't, pitch them in the dustbin and get on with the game. (Eberron's alignment situation infuriates me. I've said it before, I'll undoubtedly say it again - a monarch who signs a peace treaty and then proceeds to secretly foment war is not a Good person.)[/quote]Regarding cybertech/golemtech - do you have access to Chaositech, from the good lunatics at Malhavoc Press? All about how Lovecraftian critters from beyond are introducing new 'additions' to the natural life forms of the material plane as step one in 'breaking the seals'... rename a few things and tinker with the fluff, and I think you'll find what you're looking for.[/quote] Speaking of natural life, what about water and food? Do the lowerlands have extensive supplies of fresh water? Or even salt? And what is the basis of the food chain down there? And how is it changing? Is everyone slowly eating away at the various fungi, adding another layer of desperation to the already desperationy atmosphere, or has a supply of fast-growing easily cultivated 'shroom that makes a good bread and beer been found?[/quote]As for what the Glimmerfolk and Rathians contribute to the setting, here are my thoughts - the Glimmerfolk are the reminders of beauty, in a world getting slowly uglier. Instillers of hope, even as they find themselves in regions where they cannot hope to thrive. And the Rathians are reminders of a different kind - reminders of strength. The resilience of those who cling to the old ways mocks the void, and the foresight of those who move on to new ways enlivens the spirit, and stirs the resolve.[/quote] As for vampire blooded characters - the traditional name for such beings is dampir, and there are several versions in various d20 sources. Were you thinking of using one of those, or of making your own race?[/quote] Edit: Oh yeah, and as for me, my new favorite word is humanoidanity.[/quote]

Hehe, another favorite of mine. Humanoidanity and Warlockism. Making words is fun.

â,¬ÂHey, Iâ,¬,,¢m an English major. Plenty of jobs for that. I could always go to a factory and make more English!â,¬Â â,¬' A comedian who was at our school.

[Xathan]

How big is a Jauntrat?

What does Rilan look like?[/quote]Does "Third, he can scry and tread without mirrors, the only known being to do so." mean that you've removed Psionic Teleport?[/quote]What is Gorctho?[/quote]Wouldn't the Ynothlosh, being uncarnum, be illusions[/quote]Also, I don't read through discussion threads. Is there content here that hasn't been moved to the big thread?[/quote]

Not really, though Iâ,¬,,¢ll give it a glance to make sure.

[limetom]

Here's my two cents...

Not to rush you, but all of the information that can be should be put into the other thread.  This will make it easier for anyone to understand what you have, instead of searching thorugh 3 or so different places to find information.

I really can't say much more until stuff is collected and finalized.  It looks good so far, though.