Fantasy Firearms

[So-Keher]

I was reading through the forum in CeBeGia on Technology and Magic and saw a lot of discussion on how guns and similar firearms would be implemented in a fantasy d20 setting. Always being a big fan of guns in fantasy (perhaps inspired by FF7, Grenado Espada and similar works) and wanting to introduce them into my own settings, I have worked out what I think is a balanced system for gun use.  [note]These weapons are based off of early percussion cap weapons. They are considered Exotic according to d20 rules.[/note]
 

Weapon	Cost	Dmg	Critical	Range Increment	Weight	Type	Weapon Group
Pistol	400 gp	1d8	x4	20 ft.	3 lbs.	1H	Pistols
Musket	700 gp	1d12	x4	40 ft.	12 lbs.	2H	Rifles
Barrel Revolver	350 gp	1d6	x4	15 ft.	5 lbs.	Light	Pistols
True Revolver	700 gp	1d8	x4	10 ft.	5 lbs.	1H	Pistols
Winchester	900 gp	1d10	x4	30 ft.	8 lbs.	2H	Rifles

 Barrel Revolver- A barrel revolver has three identical barrels that can be manually rotated (quick action) and fired without reloading. After all the barrels have been emptied, it takes 4 rounds to reload the weapon. This weapon cannot be dual-weilded.
 Snaplock Musket- This weapon takes 2 rounds to reload. It cannot be dual-weilded.
 Snaplock Pistol- This weapon takes 2 rounds to reload. It can be dual-wielded if the character using it is proficient with the weapon and has the Two-Weapon Fighting Feat (pistols).
 Revolver - A weapon of exceptional quality, the revolver uses a ring-shaped cartridge to house 5 bullets which can be fired simultaneously without reloading. It takes 6 rounds to fully reload a revolver after emptying it, or 1 round for a single bullet. A revolver is considered a masterwork weapon.
 Winchester - The Winchester sports a shorter and wider-caliber barrel than the standard rifle. It takes 1 round to reload. The Winchester is considered a masterwork weapon.
 
Munitions
 

Type	Cost	Weight	Amount
Pistol	12 gp	1 lbs.	10 rounds
Musket	14 gp	1 lbs.	10 rounds
Barrel Revolver	10 gp	1 lbs.	9 rounds
Revolver	12 gp	1 lbs.	10 rounds
Winchester	10 gp	1 lbs.	8 rounds

 
If I were to use these weapons, the magic level would be very low, with no wizards or sorcerers and only bards, artificers and possibly clerics (maybe).

Also, what other technology would be a must if the world had these guns? I wanted to include more modern versions (percussion cap, allowing for quicker reloads (if these aren't quick enough) and true revolvers) but was afraid of what other things I would have to include. If everything else could be low tech or at most 17th century I would be fine. Ideas?

EDIT: Added Winchester and changed the Weapon Groups/Types.

[XXsiriusXX]

It looks balanced to me. My only question is do these weapons produce any type of smoke? If so, does the character take any minus from it?

[So-Keher]

Interesting question.
I would think yes. For penalties, how about a -2 to Spot checks. I would suggest a -2 to Hide, since the smoke would be pretty visible and spread from the wielder, but one could argue a +2 Hide as well (obstructs enemies' view).

[XXsiriusXX]

Interesting question.
I would think yes. For penalties, how about a -2 to Spot checks. I would suggest a -2 to Hide, since the smoke would be pretty visible and spread from the wielder, but one could argue a +2 Hide as well (obstructs enemies' view).

Those sound good, not that you have to use them. I was just trying to get a better understanding of how closely they were based on the black powder weapons. Also I was thinking that depending on how many people are firing in a given space you could have the smoke give a concealment bonus to all in that space.

[Atlantis]

well depending on the amount of smoke that comes frome the weapon, it might not do anyhting. A pistol may create a such a miniscule amount of smoke that it only MIGHT distract the oponent.
       They have more weapons on the WOTC boards under the gunslinger class. it might be helpful to check it out. for example they have sawed-of-shotgun.

[Xeviat]

These are balanced martial weapons. I'm assuming the rifle is 2 handed, the flintlock is one-handed, and the revolver is light (just going off the damage). They're comparable to the light and heavy crossbows, but their crit value is one higher (crossbows are 19-20/x2, which is a crit value of 2; x4 is a crit value of 3).

You don't need to take wizards and sorcerers away; you can, but you don't.

[So-Keher]

Oh yeah forgot about sizes, but Xev's got it right. I am upgrading the technology to percussion cap, which changes absolutely nothing really but it's the idea. Would it be unbalanced to then decrease the reload time to 1 round per bullet (keeping the barrel revolver at 4), and making a true revolver 6 rounds (for a 5 bullet). I might introduce stats for a winchester-styled weapon as well with two barrels (3 round reload, 1d10/x4, 10lbs, can be shot 2x without reload).

[So-Keher]

You don't need to take wizards and sorcerers away; you can, but you don't.

I am going to allow for wizards now, but under the assumption that magic is taxing and takes heavy study to master (spell points + vitality also to show this). Bards are allowed under this premise because learning an instrument well enough to produce magical effects is in my mind as taxing as studying a spellbook.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

So-Keher, do you mind if I post some of my firearms statistics in this thread?  I'm asking, because I don't want to hi-jack your thread, but it could make for some interesting discussions.

[So-Keher]

Not at all! Other viewpoints of firearms would be great.
EDIT: Added Winchester and changed the Weapon Groups/Types. Added ammunition prices.

The prices are just a guess...

[So-Keher]

Check out this thread. A gun sword would be AWESOME. Im going to work on balancing these a little and will post them momentarily.

[So-Keher]

Hybrid Weapons
These weapons belong to the Hybrid Firearms weapons group. You need proficiency in this group as well as Pistol/Rifle and Heavy Blades to use these weapons.

 

Weapon	Cost	Dmg	Critical	Range Increment	Weight	Type	Weapon Group
Gunblade	1300 gp	1d8 S/1d8 P	19-20, x2/x4	10 ft.	7 lbs.	1H	Hybrid Firearms
Gunblade, Heavy	1800 gp	1d10 S/1d12 P	19-20, x2/x4	10 ft.	15 lbs.	1H	Hybrid Firearms

Gunblade (and Heavy) - The gunblade is a combination of a sword and a pistol. The barrel of the pistol sits flush between the two blades of the sword. The crossbar is bent down towards the haft of the blade on one side and doubles as a squeeze trigger which fires the gun. Firing the gun is a full round action. For purpose of attack rolls, the attacker must decide whether he is using the gun or the blade prior to making the attack. A heavy gunblade is housed within a bastard sword, and all normal rules for bastard swords still apply. In order to use these weapons proficiently, a character must have the Hybrid Weapons feat (weapon proficiency).

Munitions
Gunblades use pistol rounds.
Heavy Gunblades use Rifle rounds.

[sparkletwist]

Cool! Sort of like a freaky über-bayonet thingy... :)
Or a Nemesis weapon from Warhammer 40K...

[Atlantis]

so-keher, could i use these weapons that you posted here for my setting?

[So-Keher]

Sure thing! back to vacation...