World War II and High Fantasy

[Gnomemaster]

Good arguments. I think the most important thing to remember is that this isn't

[Zafuel]

Good arguments. I think the most important thing to remember is that this isn't

...?

Of course, it should also be pointed out that WWII loses a lot of moral clarity on the eastern front. :)

The alliance with Stalin was entirely one of convenience and mutual benefit, rather than any sort of shared democratic values between him and the US, UK, France, etc.

Ironically, so was the one between him and Hitler. The Soviet Union seem to have trouble finding bona fide allies, don't they?

[Gnomemaster]

These are some really good arguments, I guess the most important thing to remember is that it isn't exactly WW II. I say that the Elves are a lot like the Nazis in that they are driven to racially cleanse the world. The reason I don't really want clear cut villains is so that players can choose to be heroes for any side. In the game, each faction has a little bit of moral ambiguity, I want it so that anyone can say "The Elves are evil, they work with Devils!" well, you could say that about the gnomes, dwarves, humans or orcs

[Gnomemaster]

The Alliance
Made up of the Elven Kingdom of Throribas, the Gnome Totalitarian State of Steamblack, and the Orc Empire of Brafar, the Alliance is a loose grouping of armies that work together to take back the world.

Elves: Beren Miriel (Male High Elf Fighter 5/Cleric 6/Disciple of Mephistopheles 3) was a veteran of one of the many wars that left the once proud Throribas in disarray. When he was discharged from the military he found ancestral land now being occupied by the bastard race of the half-elves in the west and the dwarves in the east. After years of bloodshed the Elves struggled to make ends meet.

Miriel spoke out and collected followers, the elven people were drawn to his promises after years of squalor. The elves were drawn to Miriel's doctrine of racial superiority, that the elves were the perfect race and should never suffer to bow and scrape to anyone, least of all the lesser races.

After years of fighting against superior numbers, Miriel made a pact with Mephistopheles, a powerful devil prince, through a strict pact said to be hundreds of pages long, Mephistopheles agreed to aid the elves with legions of devils. No one knows what price Miriel paid for the help, however to some, anyone who would traffic with dark powers is an evil force that must be stopped.

Gnomes: Lead by General Daezrig (Male Gnome Artificer 19), the armies of Hikaltur are one of the most technologically advanced. They are armed with firearms and smoke belching machinery. The ruthless gnome legions delight in greasing their metal creations with the blood of the enemy.

The Gnomes are the most technologically advanced race in Lethacios; they use pistols, rifles, and even some cannons. The Gnomes make use of metal wagons pulled by iron golems with cannons jutting from all sides. Gnomes however have a weak air force and small numbers.

Daezrig is both an engineering and military genius, however he is constantly paranoid, looking for rivals wherever they poke their heads, he leads the people with fear and propaganda. His enforcers are known as the Black Cloaks, skilled mages and assassins who are on the lookout for anarchists and enemies of the state.

[Gnomemaster]

Right now I am working on the Gnomes and Elves, but I need some suggestions on the other core races, what makes them unique? any suggestions?

[Eclipse]

I like the idea very much. You seem to have a good start on this, especially with the pact with Mephistopheles giving them devil soldiers - a great analogy for Hitler's love of strange super-science and occultism. Some ideas to think about:

Tanks - in Harry Turtledove, tanks were huge creatures called Behemoths that were covered with armor and mounted with what amounted to huge magic wands. Something similar could work here, or as an alternate version, those same huge creatures could be pulling steel-plated wagons mounted with ballistas enchanted to have explosive heads.

Submarines: Again, in Turtledove they were creatures call leviathans ridden by men. You could do something similar, or go a bit more odd and have them be a species of artificially bred fish that are full of air pockets and hollow parts allowing men to ride inside of them, and are capable of shooting out high velocity spines - which can be enchanted to explode. In addition, floatable explosives could be slipped out of their gills as reverse depth charges.

Air: Here, the sky is literally the limit. Turtledove used dragons, and that is always a possibility. Other options include people riding gryphons armed with rapid crossbows while the gryphon holds bombs in its claws, flat out airships a la Eberron, or even more extreme examples, like constructs conjured up by magic or, for the elves, flying demons. (Which does raise a question - if the elves are using devils to fight their war, would/will one of the members of an opposite side petition for angelic aid?)

Artillery: The best way I see to handle this would be huge magic wands or spells that can be cast from a vast distance that cause wide area devastation.

Machine Guns: If you're using DnD, which it looks like you are, I'd recommend Machine Guns simply being high level wands of magic missile, since the ability to unerringly strike 5 people a round is a good enough approximation. Rapid fire crossbows that have area attacks also work well - in MnM, there is a 'shapeable' area that covers 5 adjacent squares per rank, which I think works very well for machine guns.

[Elven Doritos]

You seem to have a good start on this, especially with the pact with Mephistopheles giving them devil soldiers - a great analogy for Hitler's love of strange super-science and occultism. Some ideas to think about:

Again, not to derail a thread, but I've heard various debates about what level of occultism Hitler himself was actually interested in. While it's true that he transformed the Thule Society into the Nazi party, he was never a Thule himself; he went to great lengths in later years to weed out as many of the occult-heavy advisers as practical, and the legacy of Nazi mysticism is more closely attributed to the likes of Himmler, Hess, Rosenburg, and a number of junior officers and supporters.

I haven't done that much research though, so I could entirely be wrong.

[Eclipse]

You seem to have a good start on this, especially with the pact with Mephistopheles giving them devil soldiers - a great analogy for Hitler's love of strange super-science and occultism. Some ideas to think about:

Again, not to derail a thread, but I've heard various debates about what level of occultism Hitler himself was actually interested in. While it's true that he transformed the Thule Society into the Nazi party, he was never a Thule himself; he went to great lengths in later years to weed out as many of the occult-heavy advisers as practical, and the legacy of Nazi mysticism is more closely attributed to the likes of Himmler, Hess, Rosenburg, and a number of junior officers and supporters.

I haven't done that much research though, so I could entirely be wrong.

I'm honestly not that sure, either, but for fictional purposes, making Hitler an occultist - especially for fantasy purposes - allows for some interesting plotlines.

Because everythings better with Hitler!

...or maybe not.

[Ra-Tiel]

[...] Artillery: The best way I see to handle this would be huge magic wands or spells that can be cast from a vast distance that cause wide area devastation. [...]

While I agree with your suggestion regarding machine guns, I must object here. One of the signature abilities of artillery is its indirect firing of the ammunition, being able to shoot over obstacles like mountains, forests, or walls. Spells and magic items usually are direct fire, however, thus removing this properties.

Heroes of Battle, IIRC, had magic catapult and ballista ammunitions that released various magic effect on impact. I think this would be the most accurate approximation of "modern" artillery in DnD.

[Eclipse]

Ahh, I should have been clearer. I'm still thinking in Harry Turtledove terms, where the spells could be cast from a great distance away and without regard for obstacles - but you're right, in a fantasy setting, Catapults make the most sense. I'd enchant them to increase their range significantly, since WWII's artillery was often a fair distance away from the front line.

If you want to go the Turtledove route, however, you can add in the horror that these spells were often powered by mass human sacrifice, which provides an approximation for the Holocaust if the elves use a certain ethic group for the sacrifice.

If you want to have fun with subraces, the elves that are sacrificed could be the drow, which aren't the crazy dominatrix based society in normal DnD, but just happen to be dark-skinned elves with some odd innate magic - which for a race like elves that is magically based, would make sense for an ethnic distinction.

Plus, the idea of elves slaughtering drow by the thousands is...well, intriuging to say the least. The other option would be a different species that lived in elven lands, or something as simple as elves that happen to have slightly different physical features (longer ears, darker hair) and worship a different god, or even an older faith of the same god - though that is a bit too blunt, IMO.

[Gnomemaster]

Well, as far as the holocaust goes, I figured that I may move away from that, it just feels too serious to make for a fun game, plus it would tip the scales of this whole "Everyone is a little evil" by making the elves really evil. There is, however, one thing to point out,that part of the pact made with Mephistopheles was that the devils and elves would kill in his name, effectively creating a combat based sacrifice. I'm pretty sure that the rules for sacrifice require a coup de grace and such, but I decided that Mephistopheles isn't that picky.

To answer the DnD question, I plan on creating my own game system which is loosely based on the Warcraft III system, where a hero has a few spells and every level he increases the effectiveness of that spell.

[Gnomemaster]

Races of War World
Elves

'Suffer not the weak races to live.'
-Sir Garick Brighthelm, Colonel of the Throribas 234rd

An ancient and beautiful race, the elves were the first race created by the gods (or so they say), their history is one rife with civil wars and fighting. During the Last Great War the elves suffered the most, losing parts of their mighty kingdom to the dwarves on to the East, and forced to make room for the Half-Elves in the west. The elves were forced to pay tithes to the victors of the conflicts in the form of weaponry, mithril, and other substances, once a beautiful kingdom was now a broken husk of its former self.

When King Geridarr died, he left his two sons, the oldest Karidon was groomed to lead, and he was a powerful mage who created much of the arcane weaponry used in the war. The youngest was Beren, who had given up his life of luxury to serve in the army. Beren fought in the trenches against the hordes of humans at the battle of Berkinridge, arguably one of the bloodiest battles. It was there that he lost his arm.

Twenty years later, his arm replaced with a steel prosthetic, Karidon continues to preach peace and understanding between the elves and the other races of the world, in the hopes that a great democratic union can be made between the different countries.

Beren however, had different plans. He broke his rule of staying out of politics and began speaking to the people in taverns and inns. He would leap upon the tables and stir their hearts with his words of elven superiority. To Beren, the lesser races of the world did not deserve to live in their lands. Beren described the Half-Elves as a child who finds his father's sword in the attic and takes it out to play only to kill his best friend because he has no idea what he holds in his hands.

Riots began, a massed militia of elves stormed the Elven palace, when Karidon looked out upon his balcony he spotted his brother riding upon a great blue dragon and pushing his men to continue fighting. When Beren's men stormed through the gates and up the stairs to the King's tower, they found it completely empty, as though no one had lived there for weeks, with a letter addressed the Beren.

No one knows what the letter said, but Beren's coup was a success. When he took power he put a stop to all shipments of weaponry and supplies to enemies. Beren had his journal from his time in the Last Great War published by scribes, entitling it Hilladea Krinnorata. It was an inspirational book that was read by every household.

In the spring of 1394, the peace created by the War Treaties was shattered. A legion of elven warriors, mages, and priests came crashing down upon the Half-Elf fortress of Hiathalan, after three hours of fighting the fortress was taken.

The elves would continue to push on to occupy their ancestral land, Karidon had gone into hiding on another plane of existence, and the elves realized there was no way their superior firepower would be able to withstand the superior numbers of humans if they were to join the war.

It was then that Beren turned to some of his brother's research in demonology and deviltry. Sifting through the notes, Beren was able to find the key to a powerful summoning spell. Using his best sorcerers and wizards, Beren was able to call forth and aspect of Mephistopheles, together they bartered for fourteen hours straight. In the end a deal was struck, Mephistopheles would use his army of devils to bolster Beren's ranks for exchange for the souls of the fallen.

[AllWillFall2Me]

Something I'd like to add. Having shifted the Devil in question to Mephistopheles, perhaps one of the other groups could receive aid from Asmodeus.
The reasoning goes like this: Every soul taken by the elves strengthens Mephisto, bringing him closer to being able to overthrow Asmo, Asmo, to counteract this, sends an aspect to the dwarves, offering them the same deal that Mephisto and the elves enjoy. THis would also show how violent the Dwarf-Elf conflicts are, both of them are throwing devils at each other.
Or, you could have it be that Mephisto's act brought most of the lords of hell to the table, with various races allying with various devils. The a clause in the first deal, essentially brought Hell to Earth. This would heighten your "everyone is evil" theme.
If you go the second route, here are some match-ups I would recommend:

Dwarves-Dispater. Cold, patient, master of Iron. Dwarven warfare to a T.

Humans- Asmodeus. The humans have always done everything they do to the fullest extent, so why not deal with the King of Hell?

Gnomes- Baalzebub. The lord of the Flies is a genius, lending diabolical insight to gnomish engineers.

Orcs- Bel. Hell's General liked the ferocity of the orc armies, and offered his battle-hardened troops.

Half-elves - Mephistopheles. Yes, the Lord of Hellfire is running two sides. It was even a clause in the deal, "Provide aid to those of elvish blood." That's why the elves are working so hard to kill the half-elves, racial purity, and so they alone have the power of hellfire.

I think that's all your races.

[Gnomemaster]

that's actually a really good idea, but I don't necessarily want to just make it all about devils. I want the deviltry to stick with the Elves to represent how far they will go to win.

For dwarves, they will probably use a lot of tough beasts of war, like war-rhinoes and dire lions. The tough as nails would be their plus side, the downside is that they are ruthless and often kill civilians as much as soldiers.

The Gnomes get guns, bombs, and even some tanks. They are more technologically advanced.

Humans are more magically advanced than the gnomes, but equal in power, they have some of the most powerful mages in the world.

now, im not dismissing you, I might actually have some regiments that worship those specific demons because of that. My biggest problem is what's OGL and what's not.

Something I would like commented on is including Minotaurs (more like the dragonlance ones than the MM ones) as mercenaries, allowing for any army to field Minotaur soldiers. thoughts?

[Jürgen Hubert]

I know that Turtledove wrote a fantasy story based on WW II...

Actually, the hints existed earlier than that. Does anyone remember the scene with the pseudo-"Nuremberg processes" that Harry saw in a pensieve once?