Free Form Magic & Character Creation

[Slade]

Part I: Magic Systems Reimagined
I want to implement a free form, role playing Magic System (like in Mage from White Wolf). Is it possible in 3rd Ed? To have, the power of spells to increase, as levels go up? Any ideas about how to approach this? This is how I imagined a new version of existing magic styles:

Divine:  Spontaneous, Guaranteed Effect, imaginative, High DCs, Lower Effect
Arcane Learned: Defined, Low DC, High Effect, Less Cost, Fizzle on Failure
Arcane Spontaneous: Hurtful to caster, High DC, Med. Effect, Undefined Wild Magic Results, Critical Failures

Divine: The Gods grant you a spark of their power. If they don't like you, you don't get the power. But you channel their divine, cosmic energy. So if suddenly you want a buff, you channel the gods power to buff you, or attack the enemy, or discern a location, or whatever.

Arcane Spontaneous: Pulling from the power of creation, you summon the forces of nature, titans, whoever, and you will something to occur. It is physically draining, and if you fail, it may have serious repercussions. But, if you need a web, to fly, shoot a magic missile, you just summon it. Or some combination, you propel into the sky with a mighty rocket blast, leaving a flame ball explosion (fireball and fly). The power of the spell is based upon the DC set for the attempt. (Sorcerers Archetype)

Arcane Learned: When a magic affect is studied by wizards, it is turned into a spell. So you can preform the effects of one of these spells, in a much safer, cheaper (in terms of health damage) fashion. But you are limited to an established spell. Fly, Web, etc. And, in this fashion, spell books are VERY important. In the Cthulhu lore nature. The result can also be affected by rituals, reagents, pacts, etc. (Wizards Archetype)

With Arcane, the idea is that you either study a spell, and learn how to invoke it, or you spontaneously summon the spell. Try it out. If you accomplish it enough times, and take the time to write it down, you can then turn it into a spell. And after that, it is easier for you to preform. Sorcerer's would be adept at spontaneous casting, where Wizards would be more skilled at studying the effects of the magic, creating spells, spell books, rituals, magic items & equipment.

Part II: Character Creation
Also, I'm interested in putting together a career style character creation system, similar to the Mutant Chronicles system. Any ideas about putting something like that together? The concept is that you roll up some initial stats. Then you pick a childhood archtype. Roll a random affects, that adds fame, prestige, money, skills, feats. Then move onto adolescence, which further the aforementioned traits. Then you pick a career path, and do a 'test', based on your stats, if you pass you get an achievement in those traits, if you fail, you get some traits, but not as much. Can this be reconciled with a system based on Class Levels?

Some ideas:

Ancestry:
X
Y

Birth Social Standing:
1 '" 10    Slave
11 - 50 Serf
51 '" 86 Peasant
87 - 98 Elite
99 - 100 Noble

Childhood:
Urban
Rural
Religious
Military
Wilds
Business / Politics

Adolescence:
Rural Life
School
Wilds
Trade
Soldiering
Criminal
Travel

School Types:
Military
Finishing
Trade
Religious
Esoteric

Adult Life:
Religious
Merchant
Farm
Wilds/Explore
Soldier
School
Criminal
Travel
Dilettante
Scholar
Knight
Politics
Magician
Piracy
Trade/Smith


Possible Rewards:
Reputation
Title / Recognition
Contacts:
Wealth:
Starting Gear:
Talent Tree Bonus:
Bonus Feats:
Skill Bonus:

Random Events:
X

Prestige:
Villainous
Pariah
Disgraced
Indifferent
Respected
Honored
Royal

Fame Levels:
Unknown
Local
Town wide
Province Wide
Country Wide
Famous in your profession
World Leader
Historical Figure

[Ivar]

I'm failing to see how the magic system differs from standard D&D.  Maybe I need some crunch displayed so that I can see the differences, but it sounds like you are describing the standard magic system with different words and a few variants (like wild magic).  With most spells, the power does increase with caster level, etc.

The character creation concepts are interesting.  I always liked the more extensive character creation systems that involve traits, background, contacts...

Can this be reconciled with a system based on Class Levels?

I think so.  You can base it on Character level and have various rewards (prestige, fame, traits, followers, etc.) tied to certain character levels.  You can include checks, quests, etc. to determine if the character achieves said reward as you discussed.

I'm interested to hear more, but I need some more detailed information it seems.

[Ravenspath]

I don't know anything about the career style character idea you mentioned by Mutant Chronicles,but that sounds like some books that came out in the early to mid 90's called Central Casting. The whole book (one each for fantasy, present (20's to present),and sci-fi were random tables with backgrounds, different abilities and modifiers.

They were easily usable for level based characters. I wish I still had them. They are very expensive on ebay currently. I always liked the idea of giving your character a bit more indepth background and it gave lots of hooks for a GM.

I say give it shot.

[Slade]

I'm failing to see how the magic system differs from standard D&D.  Maybe I need some crunch displayed so that I can see the differences, but it sounds like you are describing the standard magic system with different words and a few variants (like wild magic).  With most spells, the power does increase with caster level, etc.

The idea is like this, a player describes a spell effect, and then, the DM assigns a DC, the player makes some sort of check to see if it worked.

Example of Spontaneous magic.
Dave: I want to shoot a flame bolt from my staff at the Orc, concentrating on penetrating their defense.
Bill-DM: Alright, that'd be a 25.
Dave rolls a 13
Bill-DM: You failed, and since you failed by 10 or more, there is a negative wild magic effect. *looks at table* The spell sort of works, against you. So the fire fall erupts from your staff but explodes immediately afterwards, dealing 2d6 of damage to you.

[LordVreeg]

I'm failing to see how the magic system differs from standard D&D.  Maybe I need some crunch displayed so that I can see the differences, but it sounds like you are describing the standard magic system with different words and a few variants (like wild magic).  With most spells, the power does increase with caster level, etc.

The idea is like this, a player describes a spell effect, and then, the DM assigns a DC, the player makes some sort of check to see if it worked.

Example of Spontaneous magic.
Dave: I want to shoot a flame bolt from my staff at the Orc, concentrating on penetrating their defense.
Bill-DM: Alright, that'd be a 25.
Dave rolls a 13
Bill-DM: You failed, and since you failed by 10 or more, there is a negative wild magic effect. *looks at table* The spell sort of works, against you. So the fire fall erupts from your staff but explodes immediately afterwards, dealing 2d6 of damage to you.

Okay, so you need a ist of baseline 'effects', a basic mana cost and the DC that goes with it.
then you need to have a list of upgrades (damage, time, range, creatures affected, etc), the mana cost and DC add on.
and then lastly, a combination upgrade, the mana cost, and DC add on.
And I'd recommend having a few different types of mana, as well.

[Slade]

Okay, so you need a ist of baseline 'effects', a basic mana cost and the DC that goes with it.
then you need to have a list of upgrades (damage, time, range, creatures affected, etc), the mana cost and DC add on.
and then lastly, a combination upgrade, the mana cost, and DC add on.
And I'd recommend having a few different types of mana, as well.

Wont that be hard to do? Wont it nullify a d20?

+0 for close range
+5 for medium range
+10 for far range

+0 for small affect
+5 for medium effect
+10 for high effect
+25 for maximized dice effect

+0 for easy resist roll
+5 for medium resist roll
+10 for difficult resist roll
+15 for very difficult resist roll

So say we have a medium range (+5), high effect (+10), medium save resist (+5). so... 20.

Now you have a 1 in 20 chances of accomplishing this, with an unmodified roll. In d20, if this is a skill, you could have a +4 in this starting, possibly a +7.

But what about when you're level 10, and you get a +14. What about level 18, and your modifiers automatically succeed, without even having to roll?


Ideas?

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I'll dig up something I created a long time ago (I don't remember how to link directly to a post, so scroll down to the second post). I used it for one game, but then kind of stopped using d20 altogether. I think it worked okay, but ultimately I revised my conception for Kishar's magic system anyway. Still, it might help you in your efforts.

[LordVreeg]

[blockquote=Phoenix]I'll dig up something I created a long time ago (I don't remember how to link directly to a post, so scroll down to the second post). I used it for one game, but then kind of stopped using d20 altogether. I think it worked okay, but ultimately I revised my conception for Kishar's magic system anyway. Still, it might help you in your efforts.[/blockquote]
Yeah, I hear you.  I jumped out of d20 over 2 decades ago, so I always feel like i'm translating my thoughts into a rarely used language from my youth.

[the_taken]

A little note on the math of a d20. A difference of 10 points between two bonuses effectively functions as immunity. That is, if your bonus to AC (from a base of 10) is 10 points higher than someone's attack roll bonus, they will never hit.
That's why they implemented the "roll of nat20 automatically works" rule, 'cause bonuses could be stacked to an insane level.

Just something that you should keep in mind when designing and assigning bonuses.

[sparkletwist]

I like this. :)

I once had a magical system where the distinctions between the "schools of magic" were based primarily on the amount of rote and ritual that were employed.

The most traditional was based primarily on worn out, well known, but useful spells. This is most similar to the D&D magic system.

In between, there was a system based around visualizing the intended outcome of the spell, but without worrying specifically about how to get there. There were various power words used to invoke certain elements, but they were very vague and could be combined in different ways. In this one I was somewhat inspired by various computer RPGs and their take on magic.

Finally, the most open ended system was based solely on the manipulation of magical forces and currents. Magic, psionics, physics, and the universe were all intertwined, and by creating small disruptions at the quantum level, the butterfly effect would do your work for you. It resembled the M:tA system most closely, I think.