Celtricia, World of Factions-Mechanics Information V2.0

[LordVreeg]

I think you need to post the discussion/argument between you and Clark somewhere. Because as interesting as part of it is, reading through 84+ emails sucks.

Hey, you want me to complain about having a bunch of players caring enough about the system?  Matt, Brian, Joe, Scott, and a few others all chimed in...lots of different groups.  So I thought it was cool.

I distilled a lot of it above.  But there was more.  
The rules are a living document.  

[LordVreeg]

Magic Enhancers
The second most common type of ensorcelled item is the 'Magic Staff' and it's variations.   These are items that help focus the casters person Spirit and the Void-Borne energies that are woven together to cast spells.  The most common type reduces the amount of personal energy, or Spirit.  This makes all casting easier, and obviously is a huge help to all casters.  There are other types that increase the ability to succesfully cast a spell, and these are sought after by combat mages in particular.  Most of these are linked to a particular type of magic, but not all are.  The last type of enhancer increases the rate a caster regains the ability to reach the void, but these are very rare.

More powerful versions are often also linked to other Void-Borne power sources, so the more rare versions reduce the amount of Spirit and other power sources needed to cast a spell.  The Torcs of the old Arcanic Table (the old Orbian government) reduced all types of spell points by one of a spell cast.

Staffs are, however, the most common variation.  Whether it be for a good reason or merely following the old prototype, staffs are the most common variation of this type of artificed item.  The Collegium Arcana's internal name for a member is 'Tamp doen', which is arcanic for 'Staff-bearer', and most of their ceremonial offices include an actual staff.

Whether it is a Torc, a ring, a staff, or a nose piercing, this type of item is almost assumed with any wealthy caster.  Spell-weavers are always scared of running dry their resources, so a tool they delays this and allows them to cast more is worth a hefty price[2].

Magic Staffs are very, very difficult to make, and luckily, very hard to destroy.  The most simple versions will cost over a thousand electrum goodwives, and better versions can costs tens of thousands.

[LordVreeg]

added more spells here, the spells page of Guildschool.  SHould be 615 seperate spells.

Added a few water, including the horrible Emma's Boiling Acid Sphere.  Added some Necromantic, and some animist, and some restorative, especially the 'Vernidale's Shield' variations.

Evercoal was added, so that players understand how that stuff is made.  There is also an entry in the idex page now.

[Llum]

Nice, would the Canine Soul affect werewolves?

Summon Cresh is badass, how much water do they need to be mobile?

[LordVreeg]

Nice, would the Canine Soul affect werewolves?

Summon Cresh is badass, how much water do they need to be mobile?

If anyone ever asks me to publish this game, you'll be hired as the editor.

Cabine soul wopuld probably have a 1/2 effect (soc cc) on werewolves or werepuppies.

Summon cresh needs a cecile source of water, or at least 3 bathtubs full.  But I'mk glad you like it, i did as well.

[LordVreeg]

up to 626 total spells for the GuildSchool system.
Hamish Haldane can't wait!  Dispelling included
Spell Link

[LordVreeg]

Parry Skill
The Parry skill is a dropdown of the weapon skill.  The theory here is that the more skilled the combatant with a weapon type, the better they are with this skill.  As with other skills, one can learn the skill itself and become even better in it.
 

The combatant declares the use of the parry skill when they roll weapon initiative.  If this skill is declared, they can choose to take points from their base chance to hit with a weapon and add them to protection.  The combatant can only transfer as many points as they have parry skill points.  The Combatant can change this amount the next time they declare initiative.

So the Parry Skill can be looked at as a flexibility skill, one that allows a skilled fighter the ability to make strategic choices based on the type of battle they are fighting.   A Heavily armored tank fighter may decide, when fighting a huge creature that deals massive damage to take away points from their chance to hit because they are not going to miss the giant much, but if they get hit, they want as much protection as they can get.  A skilled fencer in town may find themselves outnumbered, and may want to reduce the chance of taking damage.  Or an outclassed fighter may want to fight a defensive fight waiting for help.  These are choices the parry skill enables.

 

The protection added only affects melee attacks, and only those the combatant can see (the 180 degree in front of them).  It does not add onto protection against magic at all.

Players gaining experience in protection while using this skill can choose to add some into parry as well as defence.

[LordVreeg]

I have added quite a bit to this.


1.Initiative
i.Declared and Readied Initiative
ii.Some standardization of penalties:
iii.Rolling the Dice
iv.Action Speed




We have mentioned quite a few times that we use a continuous initiative system...

What does that mean? It means that combat initiative is kept continuously instead of stopping at the end of a round or a turn and starting again. A character in combat or in another initiative situation[1], after they have attempted a feat or action, will roll intitiative for their next action, and add it on from there.

This can often mean a character with a fast weapon might attack two or three times before a character with a slower weapon. However, since smaller weapons normally do less damage and have higher dividing dice, they penetrate armor less...It also accounts better for moving and movement., as well as for other actions.

Basically, back when we broke from earlier games, we were changing all of our speed rules, adding different speed factors to weapons, etc. And it made more sense for that guy with the dagger to keep swinging instead of waiting around for 10 seconds for the guy with the huge axe to make his move. We also removed the rate of fire with arrows (or anything outside the scrum)  to be tied to the speed of melee weapons.

That dagger or small sword will normally have an Action initiative of two to four, while a halbard has a 10.  But when the Halbard hits...watch out.

As we mentioned above, each initiative roll is a roll of the dice+ the speed factor of the action. The choice of dice is based on the proximity and effect of any local combat or encounter, martial or social. The Speed Factor is based on the action itself. Spells and weapons have speed factors, as do many actions.

Due to some events in game play recently, I have been asked to codify some procedures and set up some guidelines for certain common actions.



Declared and Readied Initiative


For the procedural side, there are 2 issues, readied items and declared initiative.


Readied items must be declared at the beginning of every session. One cannot expect everyone else to accept a character claiming to 'always have their scroll of 'Water's Way' in their hand'. Unless the say so in the beginning of a session.   Many weapons also have lower 'readied speeds', as well.


Declared initiative is more of a disclosure, what a character is planning to do and with what. In other words, the GM needs to know if a spell is being cast and what the initiative is, if there are reagents, if it is coming from a scroll, where that scroll is, and etc. If that information is not ready and prepared, there will be a penalty of 5 and the GMwill ask the same question then. This is also when a player (or NPC, from behind the screen) mentioned any applicable skills they are using during this time, like Parry or quickdraw.

A target must also be declared when the action is readied, if it is a targeted action.  If a player says they are getting out a potion from their sack, a target is not needed yet. 


Some standardization of penalties:

•Unsheathing a weapon +1
•Taking more than ½ total HP in a blow +1-4
•Taking more than 75% of total HP in a blow +3-9
•Being damaged in the same or contiguous segments +1
•Waking up +5
•Getting something out of a pocket +1
•Reading a scroll +3
•Getting something out of a pack +7
•Getting up from the ground +2 (often added to waking up)
•Readied for a charge -2[2]
•Redirecting an attack (reroll init) -2
•Picking a weapon up from the ground +2
•Uncorking a potion +1
•Reading a scroll +5 to the spell init
•After being below 0 hp and healed +2-12
•Every 3 feet of ground that has to be made up +1, running to attack (or advanced every 20% of max speed)
•Every 2 feet of ground that has to be made up, while sneaking or casting +1
•Facing attack from a weapon with a 6" or more shorter reach...use readied speed for first attack[3]


Rolling the Dice

In that when rolling for initiative, the die rolled can be a d10, a d8, a  d6, or a d4, depending on how deeply involved in a melee a character is .

•A d4 is rolled and added to the SF, and is used in the first round of a total surprise situation.[4]
•A d6 is rolled and added to the SF if the player is not affected by combat, is outside the combat and casting a automatic hit or group effect spell, targeting undead, etc.
•A d8 is rolled and added to the SF if the character is out of combat but is affecting by combat, i.e. shooting a missile weapon into combat, timing an entry into combat.
•A d10 is rolled and added to the SF If the character is in combat or has to account for dodging blows while attacking.


So, how it works in practice:

You roll the appropriate initiative die, add in the modifiers above and any other initiative bonuses, then add the current round and how fast your weapon/spell/action is. The resulting number is when you attack next.

So, its segment 1 of combat, and my weapon has a speed of 7, and I roll an 8 for iniative.
My next initiative will be 8 +0 (no modifiers) +7 (weapon speed) =15.  I attack on segment 15 of combat.  After I try to hit, Maybe the next round I have to attack a target 10 feet away.  So I roll my d10+the speed of the weapon, 8, + 3 for every full 3 feet of distance.  So if I rolled a 5, +8, +3, I get 16 that I add to my earlier 15, which means I dash across and attack on segment 31 next.


It should be noted that no skill, magics, or attibute bonus is every subtracted from the roll. These are always applied to the weapon action speed.



Action Speed
This is the speed of the weapon, spell or action that is being attempted. Larger weapons are slower, so they have a higher action speed.


Please note that coordination, skills, and magic can adjust the Action Speed. However, the lowest Action Speed allowed is 1, unless specially adjudicated or in a few very specialized situations.


[/size] Footnotes

1.Often in pre-combat situations, we start using initiative. The casting of spells, people moving into place, etc. ▲
2.This position also reduces the dividing die by 1. ▲
3.If a smaller weapon is attacking a larger one, the larger weap uses readies speed; and if the larger weap has already rolled init, the difference between melee init and readied init is subtracted before the smaller weapon is allowed to attack. Also remember that both a succesful charge and a succesful readied attack against a charge recieve a -1 dividing dice bonus. ▲
4.Remember that a succesful surprise attack recieves a -1 dividiing die for damage; and that bonus can be increased upwards with the backstab skill. ▲

[LD]

Are you familiar with Exalted's Combat Ticks system, that sounds a bit like what you're proposing. It's not a bad idea in theory. In practice, I've found it slows down combat a bit more than I like, but it's a really neat concept.

[LordVreeg]

Are you familiar with Exalted's Combat Ticks system, that sounds a bit like what you're proposing. It's not a bad idea in theory. In practice, I've found it slows down combat a bit more than I like, but it's a really neat concept.

Thanks for dropping in!

Well, I'm not proposing anything...this is what I've used since 1985.  When Celtrivcia started, I was using a round based version of the same thing.  But this is not really proposed, it is the current system...I added a few things on lately, so I reposted.

And someone pointed out a few years ago that Hackmaster and Exalted have both gone the way of continuous initiative in the past decade.  All of us do it slightly differently, but we all use a continuous system.  I also enjoy that the increase of flexibility in getting rid of combat segments. 

Also, the way we use different dice based on the situation as the random part seems to be unique.  '
Have you used t in exalted?  many people cop[lain about some of the mechanics of that system...   
 

[LD]

Ah, I didn't realize that was what you are currently using. When you stated that you "have added quite a bit" I thought you were just introducing the concept. Apologies.

Yes, I have used the system in Exalted; and yes in IRC we've had a few discussions about the bogginess of the system. The Ticks only work, I think, if you have a computer program or an excel document that everyone can read and see at once. Otherwise either the GM keeps the notes for everyone and has to remind them constantly (the index card system can solve this partially, but it takes time to write out and sort everything), or the players keep shouting "I'm next" and stepping over each-other's words. Also, given the complexity of some of the Tricks players can pull off, when combat is more than just swords, daggers, etc., the time players use to determine what to do slows things down even more.

Your experience with a Tick system may very well have been more smooth, since you've been using it for a long time and you are apparently pleased with the results.

The concept, I agree, is a good one.  But the execution of the concept concerns me in general (not specifically to your situation).

[LordVreeg]

Ah, I didn't realize that was what you are currently using. When you stated that you "have added quite a bit" I thought you were just introducing the concept. Apologies.

Yes, I have used the system in Exalted; and yes in IRC we've had a few discussions about the bogginess of the system. The Ticks only work, I think, if you have a computer program or an excel document that everyone can read and see at once. Otherwise either the GM keeps the notes for everyone and has to remind them constantly (the index card system can solve this partially, but it takes time to write out and sort everything), or the players keep shouting "I'm next" and stepping over each-other's words. Also, given the complexity of some of the Tricks players can pull off, when combat is more than just swords, daggers, etc., the time players use to determine what to do slows things down even more.

Your experience with a Tick system may very well have been more smooth, since you've been using it for a long time and you are apparently pleased with the results.

The concept, I agree, is a good one.  But the execution of the concept concerns me in general (not specifically to your situation).

Well, I'd be interested how the other IRC people feel about it.  They might be better able assess the playability.  I've been using it for decades, so I am too close.  Though I do still use a hybrid round system in my Accis OSR D20 game.

The continuous thing does what what I want it to do.  Ot allows me to use range and length and skills, with a random element, but it allows small fast weapons a certain advantage...Llum's Hamish and Nomadic's Kellick both used rapiers. because of the speed advantage. 

[LD]

Ok. I was discussing the system with Coyote Camouflage and Sparkletwist, so they may be able to provide more insight.

>>The continuous thing does what what I want it to do.  Ot allows me to use range and length and skills, with a random element, but it allows small fast weapons a certain advantage...Llum's Hamish and Nomadic's Kellick both used rapiers. because of the speed advantage. 

And that's why it's an attractive system.

[Xathan]

...Okay, Vreeg, I have an honest question here and I'm not trying to be rude, but this has been bugging me and I'd like to understand, so I apologize if this comes out wrong:

What kind of feedback are you looking for on these?

Most of your posts about either Guildschool or Celtricia are a ton of interesting information, but a lot of the replies that are not either simply asking for clarification or stating a like or dislike for the post are met with an "this is something I've already established, I just tweaked it a bit and am posting it." Which is totally fine, but for those of us with little to no experience in either makes it impossible to respond unless you highlight the areas that have changed, and in this exchange with LD I'm still not sure what changed.


On an overall response to the system: I love the idea. I really, really do - weapon speed should matter, and doing that at all is difficult. I dislike the execution. A large part of the problem I have with guildschool is I feel like I need to take a 4 week correspondence course in the system to be able to intelligently comment on it, which is saying quite a bit because I typically pick up new systems very fast. While this way of handling it likely works amazingly for groups that are familiar with the system, for someone like me that knows nothing about it, I'm having a huge problem even understanding it, which is a major turn-off for me.

This system is something you've been working on since 1985, and the amount of effort, energy, thought, and experience put into it shows in a system that seems to be beautifully cohesive and wonderfully thought out, not to mention absolutely revolutionary for the time - in 1985, coming up with the idea of leveling the skills you use was something that I don't know if anyone had done, and doing so on your own is absolutely brilliant. However, the downside to its age is the system is large and intimidating and cumbersome to learn - if I were to play in a game you were running, I'd pretty much have to constantly be asking "how do I do this" for the first several dozen sessions. This isn't intended as an insult, but an observation, and is leading into a suggestion:

As refined as Guildschool is, it seems that most of what's going on now are very, very minor tweaks. Have you considered a Guildschool LITE or Guildschool 2E, something new and more "new person" friendly? I'd love to see what you could come up with if you were to reboot and trim down the system for people like me. :)

[LordVreeg]

...Okay, Vreeg, I have an honest question here and I'm not trying to be rude, but this has been bugging me and I'd like to understand, so I apologize if this comes out wrong:

What kind of feedback are you looking for on these?

Most of your posts about either Guildschool or Celtricia are a ton of interesting information, but a lot of the replies that are not either simply asking for clarification or stating a like or dislike for the post are met with an "this is something I've already established, I just tweaked it a bit and am posting it." Which is totally fine, but for those of us with little to no experience in either makes it impossible to respond unless you highlight the areas that have changed, and in this exchange with LD I'm still not sure what changed.


On an overall response to the system: I love the idea. I really, really do - weapon speed should matter, and doing that at all is difficult. I dislike the execution. A large part of the problem I have with guildschool is I feel like I need to take a 4 week correspondence course in the system to be able to intelligently comment on it, which is saying quite a bit because I typically pick up new systems very fast. While this way of handling it likely works amazingly for groups that are familiar with the system, for someone like me that knows nothing about it, I'm having a huge problem even understanding it, which is a major turn-off for me.

This system is something you've been working on since 1985, and the amount of effort, energy, thought, and experience put into it shows in a system that seems to be beautifully cohesive and wonderfully thought out, not to mention absolutely revolutionary for the time - in 1985, coming up with the idea of leveling the skills you use was something that I don't know if anyone had done, and doing so on your own is absolutely brilliant. However, the downside to its age is the system is large and intimidating and cumbersome to learn - if I were to play in a game you were running, I'd pretty much have to constantly be asking "how do I do this" for the first several dozen sessions. This isn't intended as an insult, but an observation, and is leading into a suggestion:

As refined as Guildschool is, it seems that most of what's going on now are very, very minor tweaks. Have you considered a Guildschool LITE or Guildschool 2E, something new and more "new person" friendly? I'd love to see what you could come up with if you were to reboot and trim down the system for people like me. :)

It's an awesome Post, Xathan, and an issue that I, myself, have raised.  The issue of big threads, big system, etc, and the walls of text.

I'm not going to apologize for being at the 'tweaking' stage/  I've worked hard to get here.

I am going to apologize for the poor writing and organization, and for the lack of a, " This is what this game is about/ Core Concepts area".
(though as Llum will tell you...this IS Guildschool lite)

I mean, I've made it to the point that people who have never met me before can play it online.  But there IS a lot of "How or why do I do this, or more, what is your mechanism for 'X' common RPG effect?"  So you are not wrong.  And I appreciate the heck that you bothered to write it.

From the outside...what are the first questions you'd want answered?