The Discussion Thread at Dawn!

[Polycarp]

One does wonder.

[Haphazzard]

Yes, by "Message sent north" I meant to Otahvy.  I just didn't state it because my people didn't know who they were.  Perhaps I could have put Otahvy up there and just not mentioned them in the message.  Either way, that's who I was referring to.

[Stargate525]

This update should prove to be rather interesting, yet again. Inveran or the Machta must die, there's no longer any two-ways about that.

[Wensleydale]

Or it could end up like last time... :P

[amikaligula]

I half suspect that the "snake-headed demons" are just the Andosen witches wearing their masks.  But it is definitely something that would arouse the Cultusts of Svyorn's curiosity.

[Wensleydale]

Andos is pretty damn awesome. Seriously, Amikaligula, ever since you started it I've wished I got there first. And the way you do the whole politics thing and convey the lack of unity amongst certain elements is awesome. Then again, if that happened in the Machta-In, enemies would crush it from all sides, so...

[Stargate525]

Or it could end up like last time... :P

What, triple betrayal and homeside revolution? I doubt that.

[Wensleydale]

No, I mean we both go against each other, ships are devastated, there's a victory for one side... but then it can't actually follow through on it. Like in the last turn, were it not for your competence roll, we'd've won - but you couldn't invade us, then. And then in the other turn, we smashed you, but then Sha'naa couldn't follow up on it either.

[Stargate525]

It wasn't that you couldn't have, it's that you decided not to. If you had followed up on the betrayal instead of giving us aid, Inveran would have been gone.

[Wensleydale]

Celend would have crushed me, though.

[Stargate525]

Again, you could have, you just decided not to.

[amikaligula]

The lack of unity is more from centuries of isolation but for the other Vrenas inhabiting a relatively small area.  They of course warred with each other over the resources and borders of their holdings for centuries.  So, while it might seem like a formality when Andosens tell foreigners their Geethouse name ("Of Ovaytyes", for instance), it is actually quite significant culturally, as it tells if they made war with another Andosen's ancestors.  This does not mean automatic hatred if this is the case, however.  Much of Andosen culture, especially law, is based on shared sense of honor and dishonor.  So when Vrenas war with each other, they are actually demonstrating Andos' unified philosophy and, so long as they stick to conventions, such as not executing hostages if demands are met, even obeying the law.  The Vrenas can actually be quite unified, especially when serving as functionaries of the Ryvan-Holme, that council being the epitome of justice and unity in Andos.  They are most united when it comes to unite against foreign interlopers.  This dates back to one of the first Ryvan-Holme meetings, during a plague, when inhabitants of the eastern coast where trying to gain entrance to the Seven-Fjords area but where being refused as they where recognized as possible spreaders of the plague.  Seen as foreigners, the easterners where driven back and the the Vrenas went back to disputing their borders and warring with each other, all the while helping each other patrol their easternmost frontiers.

[amikaligula]

I cannot wait till the next update, but I feel that way every update.  Why do I have the feeling that Avardera and Andos are on the verge of war?  Even with the reopening of trade, neither side seems pleased with the other.

Frankly, Ive lost interest of the conflict with the discovery of the easter realms.  But as for the Strava...

I'm willing to listen to advice here, as I'm rather torn.  On the one hand, she has more important concerns to the west and north, as she is consolidating power for Stravam, first and foremost.  On the other, she might feel rather spurned by King Maes V, as he released her from her word, something in Andos usually reserved for those whose services you do not value.  She is rather cooler than her mother, but she still has a temper, and an ever-inflating ego.

[Tillumni]

since you might had missed it, but the Atrava might not had, then if the Strava have even some amounth of interest in Avarderas politic, then she'll know that Meas V is the older brother of Meas IV, and that the only reason Meas V is regent, is because his younger brothers sons wasn't old enough.  not sure how well I've managed shows, but frankly, Meas V isn't as good as dealing with people as his younger brother, being more an adminstrator type, which is why he didn't get first in the trials.

I could give some advice for how to deal with Avardera, but personally, then I'm more curious as to how you'll make use of the above knowledge.

check the spoiler if you want some though
[spoiler=tips] wait it out?   let the old man die in his bed, and try to get his succesor to be more cooperative.

suggest some kind of even agreement in the waters between Andos and Avardera, where neither give up soveriegnity?

encourage trade by suggesting favorable rates, or organising cartel business with Avardera in what ever goods they both export and let that warm up the fronts?
[/spoiler]

it's really the classic dilemma of nobody wanting to leave them self at a disadvantage, after boths side percieved breach of trust.

[amikaligula]

Funnily enough, the Strava is in the same boat.  She is more of a civil engineer than a politician.  Indeed, she is not particularly popular among the Ryvalnya.  Also, S travam is not known for their keen politics.  She probably cares little for the politics of other lands.  In fact, having never met the king face-to-face, she may very well assume he is a son of the last king.  Or, come to think of it, she probably has no idea that it works that way, "succession"still being a rather alien term, having not worked its way into the Andosen mindset.

Whether her successor will try again with your successor has yet to be seen, I'm more trying to decide if the current Strava will turn relations between Avardera and Stravam sour or remain apathetic.