technical questions re:wiki

[Snargash Moonclaw]

I could use a little assistance in cleaning up my wiki pages. The most obvious problems I've encountered have been with regard to embedded images and consistent html formatting of "cataloged" sections (specifically the formatting of the specific deity entries). With the former, the embedded world map on the main page  was automatically shrunk by the wiki editor to embed as a thumbnail, fitting very smoothly into the page layout. However, the maps on the   Malenorian Empire page embedded at full size, which is seriously messing up the readability of the page layout. I don't know why the editor shrunk the image in the first case but not the latter, nor how to get it to do so.

For the  Deities page  I wrote the original document using OpenOffice Writer and saved the file in html format, then opened the html file showing the html source. WHen I tried to copy the whole thing into the editore I wound up with a large block of html code at the beginning which was ignored by the wiki editor and displayed on the page as well as some smaller bits of code throughout the document. So I then cut-and-pasted each entry, but find a number of inconsistencies in the formatting - primarily variations in text size and style, both within each entry and different variations appearing between each entry, even though as best as I can tell, the html code is the same and the document displays in OpenOffice properly in any format. . . This wiki page is at least legible and tabulatures remain in place as intended, but the smaller point sizes may be difficult for some to read and the overall appearance leaves something to be desired.

I have no experience working with html coding or with wiki formatting, so any technical assistance in the project would be very appreciated.

[Jharviss]

Hey buddy,

First off, absolutely gorgeous polar map.  That's really nice!

As to your problem.  On the main page, the world map uses the following code: [[Image:World_rotated.jpg|thumb|350px|Polar Projection Map of Panisadore]] - Notice the "thumb" in there?  Basically wikipedia has sections that it reads.  The "Image:World_rotated.jpg" is the image.  You've then marked it as a thumbnail with a width of 350 pixels.  Finally, if the image doesn't appear, the words "Polar Projection Map of Panisadore" will take its place.

For the other two images, you have just the image in the code.  You could add the "|thumb" into the other tags to make it a code.  That said, if you want it to just be a link, you'll have to enter in the code just like a link.  Embedded pictures like what you want doesn't seem to work well with wikipedia (or any site, for that matter).

Give me another 10 miutes and I'll get back to you about the Deities page.

Holy Cow Edit: This copying and editing with the code is crazy!  That's a ton of excess HTML on a site that doesn't read most of it.  It might take more than 10 minutes for me to figure this out.

[Jharviss]

I've gone through and edited Dashin and Wu Jai.  You can look at them and let me know if that's what you want.  You can look at the code, and you'll notice it's really not very difficult.  Basically just put three apostrophes (ie ''') around everything you want bolded.  Hence, '''Bold'''.  Yeah.

I also put sub-sub-sub-headings around the description section, which can be done by putting quadruple equals signs around it. ==== Description: ==== is what you'd want.

It's not too complicated.  The problem is that you have a ton of excess html code that doesn't get read properly by wikipedia.  Honestly, the easiest thing to do is copy the unformatted version of the text into the editor and then add the boldings ( ''' ) around everything you wanted bolded.  Much easier.

But you have a ton of stuff here!  Very impressive.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Thanks. I've always been fascinated by maps. (As a kid I used to collect and display on my walls the topo maps of the national parks and forests from the park service visitor centers - they were free back in the 70s!) I enjoy drawing maps, but will definitely need to learn some computer graphic skills to either modify scanned images or draw them digitally. I haven't gotten around to picking brains over in the Cartographers Guild yet. . .

I noticed the additional code on the main page image link - I just don't understand how it got there! I didn't include it myself, so I don't know how to get the editor to duplicate the formatting, or how to construct it myself (necessary parameters\switches, etc. and appropriate values for them).

If you like I could send you the Deities file as .odt (if you use OpenOffice), .doc or html and you can see what it originally looks like and how OpenOffice is generating the html code when converting the format.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Thanks for helping with that Jharviss.  I think I need to commission someone to make a good wikiediting help page...

[Snargash Moonclaw]

I'm not surprised that there's excess code - as I said - when I first copied the whole document there was a HUGE block of code between the title and the first paragraph that the wiki displayed as text. . . I am a little surprised that OpenOffice doesn't do a cleaner job of it, although the code may be needed by other applications - if I simply double click on the html file in a desktop window it defaults to opening in my (Firefox) browser as a web page - I have to open it from within OpenOffice to bring it into Writer and view\edit the code.

The entries look much cleaner and I can see how you're getting the bold heading. One thing that has consistently stumped me in all the documents is getting paragraph breaks (hard returns) to show on the page. Text in the editor window will break as intended (though no hard returns are coded) but this disappears on the actual page - frequently turning pages into huge single paragraphs. This was a particular problem with the database type formatting I had done on the deity entries - in my first attempt all the headers and input ran together as one confusing paragraph-long line of text, only breaking for word wrap, with out any of the tabs or returns in the source document. Somewhere in all that html code the line return part of that layout was reestablished which your edits retain, but I can't see how - I'm not seeing any code for the hard returns. The lines originally included tabs to spread out the headers and entries across the page in set positions and I would like to get those back in. While not necessary, it does make the information even easier to find for any given deity (e.g., quickly looking up a deity's totem or holy symbol which will be in exactly the same place in all entries).

Thanks again for the help.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Thanks for helping with that Jharviss.  I think I need to commission someone to make a good wikiediting help page...

I've noticed that clicking on "Editing help (opens in new window)" while editing my pages goes to a blank page - though I believe this will direct to a functional page when editing CBGwiki:Main - I tend to keep that open in another browser tab for reference while working. Beyond the technical aspects I think it would be extremely helpful to include a page outlining general considerations in creating a good wiki entry - as to where and how often to include hyperlinks (e.g., should I include a link to the Khurorkh description with every reference to the race, or only the first reference in a given page?), use of categories (I've yet to include any as I don't really grasp their function), etc. - the things that work in presenting information effectively in this format.

I'm certainly glad that it's available - putting my setting out here has definitely motivated me to get back to work on further developing it, particularly since I'm at my creative best when working with some collaboration - a lot of the more detailed portions of the setting have arisen from initial concepts players presented in character backstories by taking those ideas and fitting them into the geography and surrounding societies/cultures then expanding upon them. (I still have the backstory for the first PC presented which provided seeds for a number of facets to the the setting, region and initial story arcs - the player had to drop out just before game start due to school conflicts unfortunately.)

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Thanks for helping with that Jharviss.  I think I need to commission someone to make a good wikiediting help page...

Have we made any progress with this for those of us that are still learning?

[Poseptune]

This page, which can be found by clicking help on the main wiki page, is pretty good for those getting started. How to edit a page. I've been using it as well as looking at the code used on some of the others' pages.

There is also a Wiki:Cheatsheet

[Lmns Crn]

As a matter of etiquette more than coding, I'd like to take a moment to encourage everybody to make liberal use of the "Show Preview" button on the edit page.

Multiple updates are often unavoidable (and I've certainly had a few of my own), but using more previews will help keep the Recent Changes page much less cluttered (and so, more useful.)

[Matt Larkin (author)]

[note]One of the things I was wondering, was whether we could create a template like this note one. I don't quite see how since applying a template seems to always include everything in it. Maybe just a formating template (like a CSS reference) inside a DIV would do it?[/note]
Good idea LC. I never noticed it before. You're a genius.

Thanks Poseidon; I'd seen the first one, but the cheat sheet is cool.

[Lmns Crn]

I basically live on the Recent Changes page. No new edit escapes my waxy, pigmented gaze!

[Poseptune]

I can make that note, but I want permission from either Brainface or Ishmayl before I do it, since I would have to access the css that is used on the forums to get it to match exactly.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Phoenix, one thing you can do is what I've done, and jimmy-rig up your own notes.  If you look at the Shadowfell magic page, you'll see near the bottom, "Ishy's Notes."  I did that by "cheating" with the image tags.  All images allow captions, so I made my image small (a header), and the caption large, and it works as a sidenote:
[[Image:IshysNotes.png|thumb|right|150px|All statistics, crunch numbers, and references to specific class and spell levels is probably obsolete - most likely any sorts of level-based crunch will change if I go with 4E.--[[User:Ishmayl|Ishmayl]] 23:03, 22 March 2008 (EDT)]]

[Poseptune]

edited out