Empire Governement Discussion

[Snargash Moonclaw]

That would be the smoothest solution - and would fit suitably with other developments - Theo died w/out issue, hence Devinious succeeded him. Then new Imperial House of Addricson doesn't have a "Blessed Ancestor" to point back to, so the Church has the founder of the first Empire "adopt" the founder of the second, the New Emperor is declared a Living Saint, and to the outside it looks like Church and State are united. In reality the Emperor doesn't have any House representation within the Church itself and remains functionally an outsider, reliant on their goodwill to maintain his "spiritual legitimacy."

[LordVreeg]

It works.  Go with it.  Damn that Devineous guy...

[Snargash Moonclaw]

And it's up  URL

Hope ya'll like it.

[Wensleydale]

I have one word to say to this.

'Yes'.

[LordVreeg]

I'm still picking through, but am quite pleased with the way it is being tied together.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Glad to hear it. Given a couple of generations from Baird I to now we can still pretty readily tweak anything we need and move things around further - various house lines can pursue new alliances - esp. since the Church would finally staqrt to see itself as a power-block in it's own right rather than just a front fro the old Houses. the only piece I left out was the monk/psionic/crime element - but I figured they would actually begin to appear more recently from the conquered territiories. Also we can still actually use pretty much what ever numbers we want - I found it wasn't too difficult to leave them out

[LordVreeg]

I find it interesting that you went the opposite way I was expositing with the growth of the merchant houses, in that I expected their growth to be decried by the old Gens, but secretly supported by many of them who were used to playing all sides against each other.  Instead, you went the opposite way and had outright war with the Mechant Houses actually out manouvering the Nobles.  Not bad, just a little different.  
I expected those Gens that flourished through the end of the interegnum would fill the ullage of the others, and would do this by seeing the rise of the Merchant Houses as they began their ascension, and by capitilizing on the the warison unheard by their brethren houses, seem to effortlessly rise to a position of superiority after watching most of the gens fall victim to syndality.
That being said, the opposite works, and we end up in the same places.  And I especially applaud you for how they end up, in such a delicate and delicious balance.  

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Thanks. One thing about that old vs new tho is how they will play out from NE 1 to present: initially the old vs new tracked much like in Europe (and America in the form of old $/new$) - eventually they would come to accept the fact. Once the Empire expands, old houses lose their commodities monopoly with new territory supplying much of them. Alliances behind the scenes already begun will come to the fore. Actually, by NE 1 I expect some degree of intermarrying between old and new to have occurred - esp. the Old Houses without Old Colleges semi-attached. They key piece through all of this (which should carry well into the future) is that *all* the players managing to stay in the game for more than 2-3 gens are *really good*. The biggest problem from this then, is that they're in constant dead-lock and stalemate. As soon as anyone develops an advantage it is quickly countered. This is why Devinious at times actually has to nudge things -  otherwise they'd have remained frozen indefinitely. (I deliberately left many of these slight prods vague and open to interpretation as to whether he actually did or didn't have a hand in them.) The biggest plus for him really was that as long as the region made a turn around and rebuilt itself, he would profit regardless of it's form. He just had to keep them from getting stuck too long in any one set. Ironically, while condemned as the ultimate enemy of the Empire, he is in fact it's greatest supporter - at least for now. Realistically tho', that could change at any time as he owes no loyalty to his creation and there's really nothing to say that he hasn't already put into motion the development of another major power elsewhere. He never puts his eggs in one basket, and no doubt has more than one hen house producing them as well. Worse yet, after a couple more centuries he'll probably get bored. . . BTW, did you spot his public cameos?

The next thing to look at here is the actual bargains made to establish the Empire. While the Old Houses, as the Church, in one sense capitulated out of desperation, at the same time they produced an almost quantum leap in the reorganization of the region which ultimately made them obsolete, I definitely wanted the sense of Church and Emperor riding on each others coat-tails and an eventual development of the Houses over-all becoming redundant and struggling to maintain any real influence in the face of the two rising institutions. The present day scenario would have become Houses, old and new, constantly shifting allegiances to keep from dropping out of the rapidly expanding Imperial picture.

[Wensleydale]

BTW, did you spot his public cameos?

Would those be the numerous people who raised glasses and used the word 'bitches' numerous times? :P

[Snargash Moonclaw]

yup - actually that was the same guy at different times in his public career. He had previously masqueraded as his father as well when the old man took a dive in real-estate foreclosure. . .

[LordVreeg]

I spotted them, and I especially enjoy this lich, as he is a Lich after my own ideasl, complicvated, intelligent, evil by certain viewpoints, mainly though for the means he seeks a greater growth for the Empire without counting the cost.

Those Noble Houses and bardic Colleges that harbor the secret that he still exists and that try to counter his schemes in the background are rightlully afraid, as I think he plays them like children, except for one or 2 of them.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

One of the things about liches as often written that bugs me to no end is how they start some careful plan and then get impatient as it gathers steam and just raising huge (and very obvious) armies of undead instead.

Really, after a while I think he would wind up less "pure" evil and simply utterly amoral - and more dangerous, bored. The biggest difficulty countering him for mortals is grasping the full scope of his plots - it's hard to think in terms of multiple generations effectively. Once they begin to realize how he uses time to his advantage (if you see the beginning of the threat, by the time it materializes you're only remembered as a paranoid nutter who constantly saw conspiracies that never manifest and your great-grandson is not likely to read your old journals and realize that you were right all along. . . ) the only effective counter is to hire some elves as very long-term management - and even they are comparatively short lived.

We really can reasonably set him up as nearly anything we want -just keeping in mind his few vulnerabilities  - he's not likely to risk his Achilles' Heel.  On the other hand, knowing that a small few "Van Helsing" Houses are wise to him he might well con them into attacking someone else's weak spots by mistake.

[LordVreeg]

One of the things about liches as often written that bugs me to no end is how they start some careful plan and then get impatient as it gathers steam and just raising huge (and very obvious) armies of undead instead.

Really, after a while I think he would wind up less "pure" evil and simply utterly amoral - and more dangerous, bored. The biggest difficulty countering him for mortals is grasping the full scope of his plots - it's hard to think in terms of multiple generations effectively. Once they begin to realize how he uses time to his advantage (if you see the beginning of the threat, by the time it materializes you're only remembered as a paranoid nutter who constantly saw conspiracies that never manifest and your great-grandson is not likely to read your old journals and realize that you were right all along. . . ) the only effective counter is to hire some elves as very long-term management - and even they are comparatively short lived.

We really can reasonably set him up as nearly anything we want -just keeping in mind his few vulnerabilities  - he's not likely to risk his Achilles' Heel.  On the other hand, knowing that a small few "Van Helsing" Houses are wise to him he might well con them into attacking someone else's weak spots by mistake.

Reasons like that my Omwo~ are so short lived.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

BTW- I really don't expect the name Most Universal Church Of Unsullied Saints to stick - I was struggling for a sleazy acronym in a hurry. . .