Myrkwell

[Saxon Douglass]

Myrkwell Core Ethos

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Theme

Myrkwell is all about the duality of the horrors and prosperities brought about by the industrial revolution (particularly in Western society). It is fantasy with both horror and steampunk elements, with a focus on mystery and intrigue. The world covers most geographical regions found on Earth, from deserts to jungles to icy tundras. The setting encourages the players to be daring and courageous as the rules are designed to ultimatley let them win. Whether they be buccaneers sailing the high seas or diplomats hammering out peace negotiaton deals, the players should have an exhilarating and intense experience.

Tone

The world is dark, and creepy. Although not really "horror", people live in fear of vile creatures living only a stone's throw away - sometimes even much closer. The tone of the world revolvs around the definition of "evil", things like insanity and corruption are too common place to ignore or answer simply. The players have to decide who they help and who they fight. They might have to decide between bringing a killer to justice, or stopping a family from starving for example.

Magic

Magic is a big problem faced by the people of this world. Despite this they rely on it heavily, as it is also the only thing keeping unspeekable horrors at bay. Magic brought corruption to this world, and it is the last bastion before that corruption manages to sunder apart the very nature of civilization. The people of the world have been left with only one option: to fight fire with fire. And they're fully armed.

Technology

Since the world is set during the industrial revolution, technology plays a huge part in the functioning of the world. Most people have access to simple trinkets like watches and electric lights, and firearms are the primary weapon employed by Gentlemen and the army alike. Because of this all of the standard classes will be revised with specific capability to employ technology to assist them in surviving the perilous journeys they shall face.

Alternate Rules

With the amount of re-wroking i'm doing to the system, i think that it's safe to say that my world is designed for the d20 system and not D&D explicity. From my redesigning of classes, races, equipment, etc. to my reworking of the XP system and character morality (ie. alignment) the game will have a vast number of new rules to learn. This is both a good and bad thing, as it may turn off some more casual gamers but does allow the setting to better address its core premises. Overall I aim to make the system simpler and more "beginner friendly".

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Hello, I just joined the CBG and have decided to post my campaign setting here. It's called Myrkwell and is a gothic, steampunk, anti-vancian, pro-psionic and different magic campaign setting. It is based around the English victorian era (so basic firearms, steam engines, trains, etc.) and includes a dark street in every town (metaphorically only ofcourse). I have been working on the basics for a time now, but never got it into a solid format. So I'll just talk a little about how i'm changing and adding to D&D to make the setting work.

Races

I'm completley redoing the races from the PHB (except possibly the Human). I'll make them slightly more powerful overall (about the power of the Dwarf) and try to give them more depth and flavour. Part of this is to turn every race into a 10-level racial class. These will take the place of commoner or paragon classes, representing the general things a member of that race learns.

I'm also going to change the "monsters" into racial classes so that players can play as monsters without having certain overpowered combinations (such as a spellcasting cloaker). Since i'm also dropping alignment I want the distinction between race and monster to be pretty much gone. I also want to bring back some of the "forgotten" races into the main fold. Things like Centaurs and Gargoyles are pushed under the carpet in D&D and i'd like for them to be more prominent. Similarly i'd like to drop some races, such as Halflings and half-breeds, as I feel they aren't unique enough to deserve a prominent position.

Another change i'm making to all of the races is flavour. Humans will be a little bit of everything, but very much based on the victorian mentality of greed and peer aproval. Elves will be dark, sinister figures who manipulate things behind the seens. Sort of like volcuns, drow and D&D elves combined. Dwarves are brave warriors and mighty smiths, they are the oldest of the races and are actually taller than Humans. They are called Dwarves as they were once Giants who were sent out to live under the deserts to mine ore. Over time they shrunk, and are now a separate race entirley. Gnomes are cosmopolitan mishief-makers, always seeking money and political power. They're heavily based on the furengi from Star Trek (i'm a fan, can't help it) and they take what the Halfling has aswell (roaming, etc.)

Classes

The class will all be changed, some alot and some only a bit. The Fighter will be used as the yard-stick for power, although it will receive a boost through the ability to specialize with the addition of some Fighter-only trees of feats.  The Ranger will reamin pretty much as-is although the spellcasting might be dropped in favour of more martial capability. The Monk will be dropped and replaced with a Fighter-only brawling tree of feats. The Bard will remain mainly as-is but with a reduction in spellcasting ability to a more Ranger-like progression with increased Bardic Music capabilities. The Barbarian will receive a slight boost in the late game. Paladin would be dropped and turned into a PrC for Fighters who focus on the championing of certain ideals.

Druid, Wizard, Cleric and Sorceror will all change to Psion counterparts with the flavour changed to that of magic (I love the psionic mechanics but want the casters to be magical). So Erudite for wizard, Psion for Sorceror, the Cleric and Druid would be dropped (not sure on this yet but it's a thought). The distinction of arcane/divine magic will be gone - all magic is arcane and a "wizard" can heal. Other forms of magic will also exist, with the world having many Incarnum users and those who use stuff from the ToM.

Feats

Mainly to add feat chains to cover certain character concepts, and to include some Background feats as well. The idea is that at 1st level you choose a Background and Region feat which helps to define your past. Your Background feat includes things you've done (running away from home, fighting in a war) and things that are different about you (born with an extra limb, etc.). Your Region feat determines where you were raised, and helps to tye your character to the setting (since every Region has certain allies and enemies).

An expansion of Fighter feats is also in order, as well as a focus on feats of a quasi-magical nature. I want to lower the casting abilities of mages in the setting will increasing the magic of fighters, etc. These feats would be like the Ceremonial feats from Arcana Evovled - they give you magical capabilities that you couldn't normally get otherwise. Feats involving Incantations will also be the order of the day. I want nearly every character to have atleast a dabbling of magic in the setting, without mages being the gods that they are currently.

Skills

Slight adjustment to some of the skills. Remove and combine some useless skills (such as Use Rope), alter the use of others (Appraise), and combine some to make things more useful (Hide and Move Silently into a Sneak skill. When do you really use one and not the other?). Also change the Knowledge skills a bit so that they're a) more specific, and b) cheaper to buy. Also re-write the Speak Language skill so that languages actually matter in the world (no more common!)

Equipment

Add in firearms, various transportation vehicles, various modern tools, clothing, etc. I want to change it so that items become more important, but not the big magical sorts. I want to make wearing good atire usefull, just as wearing a pair of Boots of Springing and Striding is usefull.

Magic

Biggest changes here. Basically make all the casters "Psions in Disguise" with the names and flavour changed to reflect there magical nature. Slow the progression though so that they get max level 4-5 powers and way less power points. To make up for this large decrease in power, give these classes other benefits they can use which are magical (stuff similar to a Warlock's Eldritch Blast for example).

General

I'd also like to simplify the XP and treasure systems. You always need 100xp to level up in the system, and you get 10xp for an equal encounter, 5xp for an easy one, 15xp for a hard one, and 20xp for a very tough one. They might be combat challenges, social challenges, overcoming a major trap, etc. Money will be changed to 100,000c = 100s = 1g. You are expected to have about 100c at first level with every level thereafter being double the last. So at level 20 you should have about 52428800c or 524g. This means working out how much treasure to hand out is very easy for the DM. They should, in general, hand out the same % as the XP they hand out for a given encounter of the total they had last level. So lets say a player earns 7xp from an encounter and is level 2. They should then get 7% of 200 - or 14c.

I'd also like to throw in Fate Points (similar to action points but a bit different), Blessings and Curses, more complete Poison and Disease rules (not more complicated but a bit more fatal) and to make combat a bit more dangerous (Using something like Vitality and Wound Points would do). I'd also need to make other forms of healing available since magical healing all has a comesurate price (you drain life from someone else as an example).

Conclusion

As you can see I plan on changing alot for this campaign setting, and how much i do in the end is hard to know. I could do it with only minor adjustments (drop halfling and monk, add some fighter feats, and drop alignment) but my goal is to do what is proposed above as I feel the system helps reflect the setting it is used to portray.

What i'd like is feedback on my proposals, as well as other things I might need to do to make this work, etc. I want constructive feedback, so you don't have to tip-toe around, but i also don't like being yelled at either :)

[Soup Nazi]

First allow me to say welcome to the boards Saxon. It's a pleasure to have you, and this homebrew which is still in the developmental stages, is perfect for me to jump right in and help.

Races

I like your idea for racial classes. It reminds me of basic D&D back in the day. You should have no trouble making the races individually powerful without using class levels which is quite nice. A 500 year old elf elder can finally be a cool and powerful NPC without having to be anything other than a 500 year old elf. I think this will work brilliantly

The monsters might end up being something of a nightmare though. If it's as easy to play an illithid as it is to play a dwarf, or a halfling, I don't think players will even bother playing PC races anymore. On top of that it will require a complete revision of the entire monster manual, which is ambitious, but kind of crazy.

Classes

You caught my eye with the reduced spell-casting capacity and steam punk ideas. I strongly recommend you take a look at Iron Heroes and some of the supplimental books in the series. Many of the ideas you want to try have been done very well by Monte Cook and company.

I think the fighter feat trees will be a great, although I cannot really make a judgement call on the rest. I'll have to see more before I can really get a good idea of what you want to accomplish here.

Feats

I too am making regional feats for various nations. I know exactly what your gunning for here, and I like it. What I'm doing is making scion of X nation feats. The character can only take them at level one, and they gain a favored class and some additional benefits like weapon familiarity, and additional skills as class skills.

I'd like to see what you come up with.

Skills

Making languages count for something is a great idea. Long ago they mattered in greyhawk too. I almost did the same thing, but it took a back burner in my setting. For now I have old common and new common, but I too would like to make each nation have their own language.

Equipment

A shift away from magic should make optimal equipment more important. I'm not sure how you plan to make clothing more useful, but can't wait to see.

Magic

No comment for now. I like the idea, but I'd have to see it in more detail before I can really say one way or another. The psionics rules in the XPH are a great system, and you should check out Xeviat's MP system. He converted every spell in the PHB to MP, and used the XPH as the basis. It's a great starting point for you, and may save you loads of time.

General

I totally agree on the XP direction you are taking. Simple and easy, with a regular progression based upon encounters. Too often the power level of the PCs slants the XP in one direction or another. I think your idea will fix that issue. The 15/10/5 system is great!

Conclusion

Many of the concepts and ideas you have totally jive with the things I like and want to do myself. I do think that a massive rules overhaul may end up far more daunting than you may realize. Then again, you may know exactly the kind of work that's involved in such an undertaking. Just try not to allow your setting to take a back seat to the rules, and focus on keeping things interesting and fresh. I too have a victorian era steam punk setting. So I'm sure We can each gain a great quantity of useful ideas by drawing from one another. BTW my world is Sulos.

-Nasty-

[Saxon Douglass]

Races

I like your idea for racial classes. It reminds me of basic D&D back in the day. You should have no trouble making the races individually powerful without using class levels which is quite nice. A 500 year old elf elder can finally be a cool and powerful NPC without having to be anything other than a 500 year old elf. I think this will work brilliantly

The monsters might end up being something of a nightmare though. If it's as easy to play an illithid as it is to play a dwarf, or a halfling, I don't think players will even bother playing PC races anymore. On top of that it will require a complete revision of the entire monster manual, which is ambitious, but kind of crazy.

Yeah, I always hated how the local innkeeper had to be a Bard or a Rogue when they're just a regualr Elf. It will also allow for the replacement of racial substitution levels mostly (since there purpose is to make members of a class that have an odd race feel unique).

Monsters will be a pain, sure, but there are some things I forgot to mention that might change your opinion of the task. The first thing is that your example won't happen, since Illithid aren't OGC and I won't therefore be touching them. But lets take an OGC creature, such as the Medusa. My goal is to make the "core races" as cool and flavourful as possible. I see it as a deficet the PHB races have, not the MM monsters, as to why players want to play as "Savage Species". If Elves are turned into dark and sinister Elves with a strong magical affinity, and Dwarves are turned in ancient noble warriors of the past, then I think many players will choose to play as them and not the other creatures. Some still will, sure, and it's even encouraged as the wotrld is gothic. Having people play as "monsters" and have to hide from the public adds to that Notre Damn feel.

And I was going to have to revise the Monster Manual anyway. I want all of the creatures in the world to be stranger and darker than there Tolkien Fantasy incarnations in D&D. I want races that are canibals, I want races where the young practice voodoo on the local populace. If you've read the Spook's Apprentice book you'll know what i'm aiming for (everything dark without trying to make it horror).

Classes

You caught my eye with the reduced spell-casting capacity and steam punk ideas. I strongly recommend you take a look at Iron Heroes and some of the supplimental books in the series. Many of the ideas you want to try have been done very well by Monte Cook and company.

I think the fighter feat trees will be a great, although I cannot really make a judgement call on the rest. I'll have to see more before I can really get a good idea of what you want to accomplish here.

I have Iron Heroes, and plan on buying Mastering Iron Heroes soon. It was partly the inspiration for equipment as I see it. What i'm trying to accomplish to to make different forms of magic than just the Vancian you see in core D&D, and doing so by removing standard casting from the other classes. The magic a Ranger wields should feel different beyond just being divine nature spells. I want the magic each class uses to "feel" different than the others. Just as playing a Rogue is different from playing a Bard, I want the same difference in play to be felt with magic.

Feats

I too am making regional feats for various nations. I know exactly what your gunning for here, and I like it. What I'm doing is making scion of X nation feats. The character can only take them at level one, and they gain a favored class and some additional benefits like weapon familiarity, and additional skills as class skills.

I'd like to see what you come up with.

For Regional feats I was thinking that it'd give you the following:

- Members of one or more factions start as Frindly towards. One or more factions start as Unfriendly towards you as well.
- You gain familiarity with various weapons, armors and tools. Probably looking at 2 weapons and armour.
- You gain one to two skills as class skills for all classes you take levels in.
- You also gain one additional minor benefit, such as a +2 bonus on Proffesion (Sailor) checks or Craft (Birdcall), etc.

Pretty similar to what you're doing really, but you have to pick one. There will be one "nuetral" one you can take though, Traveller, that gives you bonuses on things Bards would find handy. The idea is you pick one Background, one Region, and one General feat at first level. So the characters are a bit more powerful at first level than they are in D&D. Which is fine by me, because the 1st level is a bit too weak in core D&D I feel.

Skills

Making languages count for something is a great idea. Long ago they mattered in greyhawk too. I almost did the same thing, but it took a back burner in my setting. For now I have old common and new common, but I too would like to make each nation have their own language.

I'm just cautious of going too far with this, such that players have to expend many resources just so they can talk to eachother. I'm thinking of making an Alliance language or something though (I've been playing WoW too long maybe :P) which only the "core races" speak. Otherwise you need to buy knowledge of the language. But then you've just got Common in a new suit, so I don't know. Giving knowledge of one bonus language per Int bonus is a start though at first level.

Equipment

A shift away from magic should make optimal equipment more important. I'm not sure how you plan to make clothing more useful, but can't wait to see.

What I mean is, just having a Longsword is what matters - rather than a +3 Flaming Longsword. I want the few magic items you do find to feel really special.

I plan on making basic equipment useful again by having it actually scale with level. I'm not sure which method to use yet, though. Make the equipment give more benefits at higher skill, or allow the purchase of better equipment. I go with the first option myself as it makes your skill really matter. As an example a Climber's Kit would give you +2 bonus on checks, with a +1 bonus for every 4 ranks you have in the skills. So a master Climber would get a +8 out of the kit. This would be to compensate for the lack of ability score boosting items always being on demand. No more Head Bands of Intellect +6!

Magic

No comment for now. I like the idea, but I'd have to see it in more detail before I can really say one way or another. The psionics rules in the XPH are a great system, and you should check out Xeviat's MP system. He converted every spell in the PHB to MP, and used the XPH as the basis. It's a great starting point for you, and may save you loads of time.

I'll check out his system, but i'm going with the psionic powers renamed mostly. It's a solid system that will require only minimal tweaking to make very cool and flavourful for my world.

General

I totally agree on the XP direction you are taking. Simple and easy, with a regular progression based upon encounters. Too often the power level of the PCs slants the XP in one direction or another. I think your idea will fix that issue. The 15/10/5 system is great!

Thanks, it was based on me playing Paper Mario and going "why shouldn't D&D have experience points like that?". And it's actually 20/15/10/5/0 as really tough encounters give you 20xp and really easy ones give you zilch. But the change is mainly made because I *still* don't get the interaction between XP, CR, ECL, and the number of people in a party. I just want to go "That was a pretty tough lock. Get 15xp for that you does."

I was also toying with bonus XP the group decides to give. So say there are three awards at the end of a session: Most Characterful, Most Memorable, and Most Helpful. Each is voted for by the group, where you elect one person who should get it (you can't vote for yourself). A person can't win more than one award, though (you want to avoid someone getting all 3 and the other 4 members feeling left out all the time). The first is for really being in-character, the second is for acheiving something really tough, and the third is for being the best team-player.

Conclusion

Many of the concepts and ideas you have totally jive with the things I like and want to do myself. I do think that a massive rules overhaul may end up far more daunting than you may realize. Then again, you may know exactly the kind of work that's involved in such an undertaking. Just try not to allow your setting to take a back seat to the rules, and focus on keeping things interesting and fresh. I too have a victorian era steam punk setting. So I'm sure We can each gain a great quantity of useful ideas by drawing from one another. BTW my world is Sulos.

I'm glad there is someone out there who thinks like I do. I know the rules overhaul will be massive, and you bring up a good point when you mention the rules vs. flavour. I'm going to make a list of premises I want the rules to address, and will consult them at all stages of rules development. I want all of the rules changes to help the system greater reflect the feel of the world. Eberron started it with Action Points, I want to go one (or several) steps further than that.

Infact I've often found my world verging on a more gothic RPG version of the CRPG Arcanum. It was a great game with many of the same changes i'm attempting to do. So I need to both mine it for ideas, and make my work distinct from it. A tough challenge.

My first thing to do though is to write up a few pages on the history, and present day situation, of my world. Once I have that I can start tweaking the rules (the first thing being the new XP system).

[Epic Meepo]

Except for the quote from an earlier post, the content of this post is Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d).

Welcome to the boards.  Sounds like you'll be quite busy here.

But something you might want to consider...

I'd also like to simplify the XP and treasure systems. You always need 100xp to level up in the system...

How is anyone going to cast limited wish when no one ever has 300 XP to spend without losing a level?  Same goes for all spells and magic items with XP costs.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Welcome Saxon.

I really like the feel you seem to be going for with your races.  Having the elves as the dark and sinister "behind-the-scenes" force is definitely a pretty original and unique step to take.  I also really like your take on the dwarves, my only word of advice is to watch how much larger-than-humans you make them.  If you bump them up into the "Large" category, just make sure you're ready for how PCs play an ogre-sized dwarf wandering into a typical inn.

You XP system has some merit to it.  It reminds of the Shining Force XP system.  What if, though, you set it at 1000, instead of 100.  Then, you would give equal encounters 100XP, really tough encounters 200XP, really easy ones 25 - 50 XP, etc, etc.  That way, it leaves alone the cost of spells that Meeps brought up above, as well as makes it easier to give out small XP awards (like 10XP) based on role-playing or other rewards.

It would still work with your money system, because you could just divide by 10 yet again (based on their XP) to determine monetary hand-outs.

So, with that all said, how about some fluff?  What's the world your campaign takes place in?  What kind of forces shape the everyday lives of people?  Who are the gods, and who are the NPCs in power?  Where do the various races live and how do they get along?  Etc, ad nauseam.

Cheers!

[Xathan]

I really like the idea of racial classes. I've been toying with it myself for awhile, and I'd love to see what kind of take you use on them. The idea of making them ten levels has really piqued my interest: I never intended on making them more than 6, but now I wonder why not? Great stuff, but I want to see more fluff, more information on your world. You've got my interested: Now I want to see what you develop.

[Epic Meepo]

Except for the quote from an earlier post, the content of this post is Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d).

What if, though, you set it at 1000, instead of 100.  Then, you would give equal encounters 100XP, really tough encounters 200XP, really easy ones 25 - 50 XP, etc, etc.  That way, it leaves alone the cost of spells that Meeps brought up above...

I would agree with you if it weren't for the 5000 XP cost of wish and the fact that increasingly powerful magic items cost increasingly greater amounts of XP, often well in excess of 5000 XP.

Overhauling the XP system requires more work than just changing the amount of XP you need to level and the amount of XP you gain per encounter.  You pretty much have to go through every spell or power with an XP cost, every construct that can be built, and every magic item in the game, changing the XP cost of each.

And if you make a fixed amount of XP per level, then spells and magic items with XP costs get progressively harder to cast or construct as you gain levels, because the normal assumption is that the XP-earned/XP-cost ratio increases with level.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to change the XP system.  In fact, I'm all for attempts to improve it.  I'm just making the point that doing so is going to be much more complicated than first impressions would suggest.

[Saxon Douglass]

I'm glad to see so many responses to my thread! I've only ever gotten 1 or 2 replies when i've posted it in other forums :)

Epic_Meepo:
How is anyone going to cast limited wish when no one ever has 300 XP to spend without losing a level? Same goes for all spells and magic items with XP costs.

Well, besides that fact that Limited Wish isn't a part of the campaign world (since i'm using Psionics) your point is valid. I suppose the short answer is that i'll be removing or changing such effects on a case-by-case basis. I personally dislike the Wish and Miracle spells as they are too general to be considered "spells". I would give the utility functions (such as reparing ability scores) to other spells, and leave your general "help me out" effects to the realms of deity appeals and artifacts. For the really big stuff you've got to seak a higher power in this world.

Ishmayl:
I really like the feel you seem to be going for with your races. Having the elves as the dark and sinister "behind-the-scenes" force is definitely a pretty original and unique step to take. I also really like your take on the dwarves, my only word of advice is to watch how much larger-than-humans you make them. If you bump them up into the "Large" category, just make sure you're ready for how PCs play an ogre-sized dwarf wandering into a typical inn.

Yeah, they're going to be Medium creatures still. Same as Dwarves are short Medium in the core rules, they'll be tall Medium in my setting.

Ishmayl:
You XP system has some merit to it. It reminds of the Shining Force XP system. What if, though, you set it at 1000, instead of 100. Then, you would give equal encounters 100XP, really tough encounters 200XP, really easy ones 25 - 50 XP, etc, etc. That way, it leaves alone the cost of spells that Meeps brought up above, as well as makes it easier to give out small XP awards (like 10XP) based on role-playing or other rewards.

It would still work with your money system, because you could just divide by 10 yet again (based on their XP) to determine monetary hand-outs.

Any set number works with this, although multiples of ten are best as it's annoying dealing with fractions (like 79 XP to level up is annoying to work with). I just used 100xp as that's the amount Paper Mario used, but making it 1000xp does allow more fine-tuning of rewards. I'll try both in playtesting and see which works better.

Ishmayl:
So, with that all said, how about some fluff? What's the world your campaign takes place in? What kind of forces shape the everyday lives of people? Who are the gods, and who are the NPCs in power? Where do the various races live and how do they get along? Etc, ad nauseam.

I'll post some of this stuff today, once i've actually written it out coherently. Alot of this is still just swimming around in my head, so it'll take a while to all work out. I'll do two write-ups: the first will be an overview of the world, etc. The second will be telling the story of a little Elven village, giving you an idea of the "feel" i'm going for.

Xathan, Last Of The Fallen:
I really like the idea of racial classes. I've been toying with it myself for awhile, and I'd love to see what kind of take you use on them. The idea of making them ten levels has really piqued my interest: I never intended on making them more than 6, but now I wonder why not? Great stuff, but I want to see more fluff, more information on your world. You've got my interested: Now I want to see what you develop.

I went with 10 just because it's a number many people are used to (most PrCs) and I don't see many people being Elf 17, etc. I'm working on some details now, it's just that there is so much to say about all of everything :P From the 10+ races I plan on re-working and incorporating to the multitude of sub-plots and intrigues I wish to lace together to create a rich tapestry - it's alot to try and type! (Especially when you can't touch-type). I'll post a couple of pages once i've finished writing it (should be about an hour to do).

Epic_Meepo:
I would agree with you if it weren't for the 5000 XP cost of wish and the fact that increasingly powerful magic items cost increasingly greater amounts of XP, often well in excess of 5000 XP.

Overhauling the XP system requires more work than just changing the amount of XP you need to level and the amount of XP you gain per encounter. You pretty much have to go through every spell or power with an XP cost, every construct that can be built, and every magic item in the game, changing the XP cost of each.

And if you make a fixed amount of XP per level, then spells and magic items with XP costs get progressively harder to cast or construct as you gain levels, because the normal assumption is that the XP-earned/XP-cost ratio increases with level.

I'm not saying that it's impossible to change the XP system. In fact, I'm all for attempts to improve it. I'm just making the point that doing so is going to be much more complicated than first impressions would suggest.

Yeah, as I said earlier in this post i'll be removing and changing these sorts of things. Stuff like magic item creation won't require XP cost (it'll instead involve questing for rare reagents) and things like Wish will be changed/removed. I generally want to remove people paying with XP, as I feel it creates a mixed agenda. It represents experience, yet you lose that when you make a magic item? I don't feel that the themes it tries to draw together mesh very well.

EDIT: I'll just post this brief exceprt (from a fictional book btw) so that you have something to look over. I plan on writing my entire campaign setting in this "from the world" perspective, with important mechanical details having extra explanation in sidebars (so it'll be like a White Wolf book but with easier refferencing of rules).

The Intelligent Races, by Tetherby Lochmaer
( Excerpt pages 3 to 8 )

Humans:
Running the full gamut of professions and personalities, Humans are one of the most versatile beasts who reside in the lands of Myrkwell. They are one of the later species to have risen in favour, only forming distinct societies perhaps a century and a half ago. Although they have spread far further across the world than almost any other race, they have failed to proclaim supremacy over the other intelligent races â,¬' or even nature itself.

Dwarves:
Ancient and deeply-proud peoples, Dwarves have lived further than written history records. Although there stature is in no-way outshone by Humans, they have garnered there name through comparison to there ancestors â,¬' the Giants. Once over thirteen-feet tall, they are now only a little less than seven-feet.

Researchers theorize that they were sent out of the Giantâ,¬,,¢s colonies in search of riches, and happened upon the desert mining fields they now occupy. Living beneath the scorching rays of the desert sun, they shrunk as they found it more beneficial to be mobile in there subterranean tunnels. Although this explanation covers both there change in height and preferred habitat, it is still in debate.

They are now commonly regarded as the noblest warriors and finest smiths among the intelligent races, having crafting techniques that originate from long before our current dating system can measure. They also put great stock in rituality and honour, believing that the only path to eternal peace is found through there religious doctrines.

Elves:
A tricky subject to cover at best, by any non-Elven scholar at least. Elven kind gives great importance and value to knowledge, and always seeks to keep a monopoly on it. Because of this, non-Elven men of academia still continue to debate the history of what can only be described as a dark and sinister race.

Although we cannot be sure of there origin, we can at least have a reasoned discussion on there current state of affairs. Elves find the arcane arts, especially those of a divinatory nature, to be especially valuable areas of knowledge. They are always seeking to expand there vast libraries, whether personal or public.

Elves are mostly found living among the trees of the forests. They build there cities so as to minimize the impact upon the local flora and fauna, although there reason to care for such matters remains elusive. Finally, Elves enjoy the challenge and self-improvement of archery above other sports.

Gnomes:
Seafaring gentlemen and ladies, Gnomes have a particular penchant for high-society and politics. Keen inventors, traders, and entrepreneurs â,¬' Gnomes are found anywhere that is anywhere. Praised diplomats and skilled sea captains, we are masters of gaining and retaining both monetary and social wealth.

Gnomish settlements are found along the coastal perimeter, known as the finest port-masters among all the races. Gnomes have a very unique physical stature, being only about 4â,¬,,¢7â,¬Â high. They also have large, fleshy noses which give them heightened olfactory senses.

Goblins:
Barbaric and uncivilized brutes, the Goblinoids live in various tribes spanning the wilderness from arctic tundra to arid sand dunes. Goblins are deeply spiritual, believing that all things in nature have a spirit and that these beings are to be revered and protected.

Goblins are rarely found in civilized society, although when they are they were generally outcast from there tribe. Ostracized from both societies, these Goblins often work as henchmen or mercenaries. They also have very large, point ears that they adorn with feathers and various trinkets.

Gargoyles:
Created by the Dwarves many a year ago, Gargoyles now serve various people and organization as guards. The most successful normally work as the guardians of the Human capitol, although reportedly some turn down the offer â,¬' instead choosing to continue doing freelance work.

Centaurs:
Hunters and astrologers, Centaurs roam the planes of this fair land. They are particularly skilled archers, and base most of there lives around the movement of heavenly bodies that they gaze at in the night sky. They have formed close bonds with the Gnomes who regularly allow them to use there telescopes, for a nominal fee of course.

Merfolk:
Masters of the waves, Merfolk build large underwater palaces that they can lord of more terranean-creatures. They are largely hunter/gatherer people, although they also regularly trade services for food with the Gnomes.

The Tainted, Corrupted and Abhorrent:
Many beings do not truly live in Myrkwell, having been tainted by unspeakable horrors. These abominations possesâ,¬,,¢ great aptitude and resilience, resisting extermination for several centuries. Although there are too many afflictions to mention in these chronicles, let it be stated that the variety is in the scores.

EDIT2: Didn't want to ^bump^ the thread so I decided to edit again :)

Something i'll need to think about when making the crunch of the setting is that since i'm removing divine magic and the bandaid class, I'll need to accomodate healing in another way. I've been thinking about it and I like the following solutions:

- Enhance the Heal skill so that you can heal some hit points with it, remove poison, etc. A Talented healer with all the right tolls and ingredients should be able to provide efficient firstaid.

- Allow anyone to learn Alchemy, and allow the creation of healing potions. They'll be pretty weak, but usefull in the middle of a large fight.

- Add more elements of life transference. Giving you the power to drain one creature's life to add to anothers would allow someone to feel "cool" and help the group at the same time.

- Perhaps use reserve points (like the UA variant or Iron Heroes) so that you can heal-up between fights.

A combination of all the above methods should cover what removing the cleric does. Any thoughts on this?

[Epic Meepo]

Except for the quote from an earlier post, the content of this post is Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d).

Well, besides that fact that Limited Wish isn't a part of the campaign world (since i'm using Psionics) your point is valid. I suppose the short answer is that i'll be removing or changing such effects on a case-by-case basis. I personally dislike the Wish and Miracle spells as they are too general to be considered "spells". I would give the utility functions (such as reparing ability scores) to other spells, and leave your general "help me out" effects to the realms of deity appeals and artifacts.

Silly me.  I should have said bend reality, not limited wish.  But now that I know that you're getting rid of XP costs, I see how things will fit together.  Sounds like it should work just fine.