Collosal Legos: Building a continent brick by brick

[Nomadic]

Ok well here it is with the submarine topography. Any feedback on fixes would be awesome.

Full Topo Map

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Sorry to take so long getting back - was grinding hard on CeBeGia history proposal project.

Looks good. I tend to think that the eastern shelf would actually bulge outward a bit, but don't see that the current shape is unreasonable - you've taken the submerged portion of the mountain range into account now which is the main thing.

The basin between the island and mainland and related shallow trench to its south are unusual features but certainly plausible. (If the whole thing were elevated to raise your shallowest contour region above sea level the basin would be below it - probably a lot like Death Valley.) If you plan to add any aquatic races this would be a good area to take advantage of. Regardless, it's likely capable of supporting a heavy fishing industry.

[Nomadic]

Awesome, thanks for the help and ideas. I will put them into consideration.

For now I am going to start putting things together but I plan on coming back and asking more feedback once things are more built up.

Again thanks ;)

[Snargash Moonclaw]

A lot of what I was talking about from the Old World Builder's Guidebook regarding geophysics in setting physical and map design (tectonic plates, climate/environment issues, etc.) can be found in this free product:  A Magical Society: Guide to Mapping.

[Nomadic]

I will give it a look, and if what you say is true I feel certain it will have excellent information on how to go about this in the future. Thank you very much.

Update:

I gave it a look over and am amazed by how well done it was. This is a treasure trove of knowledge and I again thank you for pointing it out to me. I have begun reworking my continent to better fit it (thanks to your help though the landmass itself now fits just fine, just need to rework the continent). From the guide I have been able to place my continent between the tropic and dry-transitional bands with a large chunk of it being wet transitional. The deserts fit thanks to the large rain shadow provided by the mountains. With all of this in mind I am moving things around a little bit trying to get them to fit together right (ah good ole legos).

Anyhow, I have come to realize though that how my map is set up and with how the world works, it would be extremely difficult to have actual nations. I am thinking instead of perhaps city states of sorts, possibly with some allied to others. This could make for some interesting variety in terms of culture and also helps make the abnormally high percentage of people in cities feel even more natural.

As to the nomads. I don't want them to be all that technologically deficient. Thus I can explain away their keeping to the less fertile and more dangerous desert by it having deposits of high grade ores (ideal for weapon and armor smithing). They comb the desert looking for this as the regular local cycles (both weather and creature migration based) force them to move to less harsh lands. This also helps explain how they are a threat to the powerful cities that trade up and down the river. Their superior weapons and armor coupled with hit and fade attacks is quite successful at taking on the armored merchant ships that float the river. That river is the only major water source in that area of the desert (the northern area will become wet transitional as it peaks up past that rain shadow) so they of course are going to come into conflict with these strangers who try to use it. The nomads will be wanderers but they consider the territory they are currently in as theirs (Nomad tribes are bound to a pact to respect other tribes current territory and avoid it. This helps prevent needless bloodshed as whoever finds the ore first usually gets it). So on that point a strange ship floating through it is violating their sacred space and when it ignores their signals to turn back and leave, is bound to be attacked. So this all hopefully explains why they live there and are so protective of the area.

[Nomadic]

I am proud to announce that the unconquered realms now has a campaign badge.

http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/images/6/6d/URBadge.JPG

I am also proud to be able to award it to someone who has put alot of time and effort into helping me make this setting work. Snargash has been a great help, and without that help I wouldn't be nearly as far as I am. Thank you very much, you may wear your badge with pride as you please. :)

[Snargash Moonclaw]

just skimmed that - gotta run to work, so I'll read deeply once I'm settled in in a couple of hours. Idea looks really cool tho - I like the thought of nomads actually being ahead of the curve compared to the cities for once. Implementing it realistically could be a challenge, but not an insurmountable one. Glad the source book helped you too.

[Nomadic]

I am thinking of getting my base for that off of the Saracens. Their technology and culture was equal to or more advanced then the Europeans of the time. Looking over how they operated may help with integrating the nomads realistically.

[Kaptn'Lath]

The Saracens are an excellent refrence, you may possibly want a Saladin type leader which is how a scattering of tribes of nomads can be a threat to Ghent.

I was wondering other than Ghent being "Communal" what defines the others city-states culture or differences. With Denkirn and Ghent from two different established nations form the mainland they could have rather different cultures, architecture, government style.

But i do have to ask, with all the rebellion, civil war, succession, and what not.. all of them are one "awsome" terms? Not one of them is still harboring a grudge? :)

[Nomadic]

I have done away with the nations (except as a reference from the colonization days). Now days the cities are independent (with some forming loose alliances). I updated this info on the wiki but I should probably say it here.


The original settlers arrived at Pikes Point and spread out from there forming Denkirn. They were fleeing the invasion of their country by a much more powerful enemy nation. The enemy nation didn't want its enemy to have free reign of this new land so it sent its own settlers. They set up shop at Gherrysol and formed the nation of Ghent. Both new nations expanded to fill much of Northhaven. Ghent continued to get aid from its homeland for awhile and expanded to the mainland. Its expansion uncovered some nasty surprises but nothing they couldn't handle with heavily fortified cities. About this time someone found a way into the previously inaccessible valley in southern Northhaven (heh that sounds funny). Unfortunately in the process they opened up the blockage that had stopped nightmarish creatures in the valley from reaching the rest of Northhaven. Chaos ensued as entire cities were destroyed by these horrors. The only places to survive where heavily fortified major cities. The resulting chaos fractured the young nations (the lack of new ships arriving from its homeland further tearing apart Ghent). It took a long time for humans to regain a foothold on their territory. Even now though, they are dependant heavily on their fortress cities to keep them safe from the outside world. Trade takes place but it is with heavily armed and armored caravans. People freely wander out to explore the vast wilderness, but many are never heard from again.

So then we have a land of many different factions. City states and city state alliances. Wandering nomads who have managed to learn how to coexist with nature travel the wastes, getting powerful off the rare ores and herbs found within. So it is a very hostile world. And yes the city states aren't all chums. Some vehemently hate each other. However, the danger of moving an army through land to attack an enemy city has limited the area to very few wide scale engagements. Raids though are another matter, happening quite regularly between enemy forces.

Thanks to this split of power between so many factions, the nomadic tribes are actually quite powerful (they are more organized then the city states are... though there numbers aren't as high).

[Snargash Moonclaw]

I gotta tell you I like this version much better in terms of anticipated playability - fracturing your political map can provide a lot of possibilities. I could see you wanted to move the setting away from large scale conflicts (wars, major trade stuff, etc.) but this will allow you to set up a delicate - dynamic - balance rather than a very static, everyone happy kind of status quo. A lot of adventures can be created which in some manner help to preserve the status quo here - in an of itself a potential major goal. Remember, Uncle Nicky grew up in the Italian city states. You can go as heavy handed or as subtle as you like - both even, and done right, your players won't even be sure which is which. Bug hunts have more to offer since they're as much an obstacle to other adventures as bounty targets themselves. You now have potential high-risk ruins with significant treasure options over-run with plausible monsters.

Re: nomad metallurgy, one thing about a fantasy world is you can reasonably make slight changes in reality with major ramifications. Usually forge technology develops first from improving purification techniques followed by alloy and crafting techniques. Here you could easily present the nomads with what at first seemed like a low-grade, impure iron ore in near-surface deposits which were/are easy to mine. Once first used though, it could have become obvious that the impurities actually improved the metal's properties. It doesn't have to be a something "real." City states become stuck doing things the old fashioned way - hard rock mining in the mountains, etc., producing standard grade metal products, at significant risk to life and limb. . .

[Nomadic]

I like that idea very much. It would mesh smoothly and would work well with nomadic tribes (who can't exactly cart around a huge blast furnace). Another question I am thinking of. Instead of different species there will be different races of humans. There are those of course that we can see right now clearly such as the nomadic tribes and the city dwellers of the islands and the mainlands. There are some that I am not so sure about but we can separate out all the different peoples as we go. Anyhow the question is, how best to go about the crunch/fluff for different races. I want to keep them balanced and in key with their regions and culture. So for example the nomads might have a higher than normal resilience thanks to living all their life in a harsh environment. This might give them a +2 constitution bonus. I am still not sure about the others, anybody have any ideas?

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Well, growing up in certain towns might produce a CHR bonus - a culture very heavy into politics and or/trade might well display a population very skilled in their social interactions.  WIS as a matter of alertness and perception might be developed, but it would be harder to produce a rational for a particularly "wise" culture. Part of the trouble tweeking ability scores is that they cover a lot of applications. Fast reflexes might develop in some environments but that would make the population better archers. You'll do much better focusing on skill bonuses/penalties and certain feats.

You're kind of looking at applying regional templates (for culture and/or physical environment) to humans. Try getting an idea of what it's like to live (where ever), describe the effect this would have and offer a little bit of crunch that reflects the descriptions. Of course, what I'm suggesting is only my preferred process. Clearest examples of its use are my dwarves (Rimenosha) and the aquatic ("monster") race, the Wahnahleesharah - both started with a sort of tactile/kinesthetic visualization/meditation upon what it would be like living in their physical environments. I would approach this with a similar exercise to immerse in what it would be like living in a given city/culture (including environmental elements) - putting myself there and then describing how I would be different from how I am now because of it. The thing to consciously avoid regardless of process would be overly min/maxing the templates into instant crunchberries. 2nd ed. Forgotten Realms did a decent job of regional kits that didn't go overboard - they were meant as minor things which could be stacked w/class kits (which sometimes were a bit much).

[Nomadic]

I like that idea. Here is my attempt at doing that. Tell me what you think. Is it too good? Does it need more? Etc...

Norhavers

The plentiful resources of Western Northhaven have made the area renown for its craftsmanship, especially in ironworking. The cities here are home to the largest forges in the entire realm, with the Grand Forge in Glensdale towering over the rest of the cities buildings. From a young age, Norhave children are taught the basics of metalworking. Though in the end not everyone takes up the hammer, yet the area still enjoys the largest and most skilled population of smiths. Their traditional passing on of smith craft has guaranteed them a spot as a prominent trade point.

Stats:
+2 bonus to craft checks involving metalworking
+1 bonus to appraise checks for metal items

Norhave Cities:
Pikes Point
Ridgetown
Hastebay
Glensdale

[Snargash Moonclaw]

You can probably go a little further, if it looks like it would warrant a level adjustment you've gone too far. If it's close (add another feat or skill bonus and you'd need to adjust level) but *all* the templates are equivalent, you'll probably be okay but may need to make opponents a little tougher (max the HP for the first monster hit die or two, elite rather than average arrays for NPCs, etc.) Environmental racial variants should provide a good idea while racial paragon classes will demonstrate passing the upper limit as they constitute full class levels. You will probably want to make some of the bonuses a little more "useful" krunchwise - I'm afraid few players will see any deciding difference between a +2/+1 craft/appraise benefit and say, +2/+1 perform/bluff, (tho' I could certainly find ways to do more with the latter in-game) making character's home-of-origin pretty irrelevant to them. Balanced against a CON bonus to nomads, its no mystery which they'll choose. . . (The latter could be scaled down as bonuses to Survival and Ride.)

A note about your example and verisimilitude, unless the city is situated at a major trade junction through which an abundant and wide variety of ores pass, they're not likely to develop that broad of a metal craft skill. Different ores will come from different geological sources - some combinations are certainly possible. e.g., Copper and tin appear relatively close to each other in Thailand (where bronze was most likely first discovered by accident) but most places had to get the minerals from two different sources; copper was abundant around the Mediterranean basin, but the Romans imported most of their tin from colonies in Cornwall. Kingdoms may develop diverse metal trades but the geographic limitations of city states will tend to produce economies based upon monopolies or near-monopolies of various resources and commodities, mineral and otherwise. (And fierce rivalry and/or price fixing within the near-monopolies.) W. Northhaven sounds like a "rust-belt" state in this case.