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Greybeards & Grognards 4: I Saw the 4e Rulebooks, Oh Boy!

Started by khyron1144, July 01, 2008, 11:58:45 AM

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LordVreeg

#45
June 29, 2009, 09:24:55 AM
Vreeg weighs in a year later.  I had to think on this.  Here is a response from myself on another (inferior, of course) site.

[ooc]
Well, I don't like being dragged into ane edition wars, as I stopped playing D&D years ago.

But a few niblets.

WotC (or anyone) spending money to advertise rpgs and growing the industry is a good thing. ANd they need to make money to spend money. So 4e spending money and being the gateway drug to the better/harder stuff is fine by me. Consider it 'college beer', if you will, a cheap and available low-end product. I and my other gamers all drank some version in highschool and college, and 25 years later we all collect, share, and enjoy wine.
J Arcane might like the analogy that 4e is the Nattylite of the RPG world.


Quote from: Originally Posted by BeejI was under the impression that D&D was written by and for older geeks with extremely eclectic interests (sci-fantasy lit, wargaming, lots and lots of polearms) but happened to really appeal to the kids. 4e we know is actively trying to make a game for kids. Kids are ready for more adult stuff than adults give them credit for anymore. It's the old folks that have changed; kids just are what they are.

That's the thing I see... old school D&D let kids be what they actually are. New school is written for what a bunch of adults think kids are like these days.

from here
http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=14573,
where the edition wars are an ongoing conflict.  Funny stuff, but I learned a lot in the past year and digested a lot.  Thought I'd give a different perspective.
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Elemental_Elf

#46
June 29, 2009, 12:13:55 PM
Wow, in a single year my opinion of the system has changed completely. Not only do I believe 4E's monster manuals are superior to 3.5's in every way (save flavor) but the 4E system is actually much better than what I first believed. 4E isn't WoW on paper, it's D&D.

SilvercatMoonpaw

#47
June 29, 2009, 01:10:10 PM
My personal feeling about 4e is that I'm just not interested in combat-by-numbers or tactical placement.  I don't really care if one person has a +2 more to hit with a certain weapon or has a power that can slide someone X squares, nor am I interested in combat I need to have any visual representation for.  When I first heard about 4e I was hoping that they were going to move away from the tactics and numbers, but instead they moved further in.  I'm not so sure I care that much about the lack of mechanics minutiae defining the non-combat game, as I'm not sure there was all that much more in 3.X, but having the occasional non-combat class/PrC/race/etc. mechanic made things interesting and felt more inspiring.

So I don't object to 4e as being a bad game, I just don't like it on personal grounds that it just seems like a lot of numbers and tactics that don't inspire what happens outside their realm.
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Wrexham3

#48
June 29, 2009, 01:35:36 PM
I bought 4e but I'm sticking to 3.0/3.5.  I stick mainly to the core rulebooks and it works for me and my players.  I like the fact that you can have Commoner campaigns, and campaigns focussed on skills rather than combat.  I originally agreed with you Elemental Elf, and personally I still think you were right a year ago.  

Epic Meepo

#49
June 29, 2009, 02:13:09 PM
Quote from: Elemental_Elf4E's monster manuals are superior to 3.5's in every way (save flavor)...
That may be true, but check out the free Pathfinder Bonus Bestiary from the company that published Dungeon and Dragon magazines when they were still in print. Based on that PDF, I suspect that the Pathfinder (edition 3.75) bestiaries are going to be better than either 3.5 or 4e.

Plus, the PDF of the 572-page Pathfinder core rules will be available for only $9.99 when it goes on sale in August. Just based on price alone, it's a 3.75 system worth checking out.
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Kaptn'Lath

#50
June 29, 2009, 03:27:48 PM
I humbly apologize for my past posts in this thread. I refine my opinion to the following.

4e is ok. It has parts worth "snipping" but in the end I have sold my 4e books so that's my opinion on the system.

WOTC is a necessary evil. We don't like them but they have a purpose.

I am buying Pathfinder and converting my homebrew and houserules to Pathfinder.
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Elemental_Elf

#51
June 29, 2009, 06:07:03 PM
Quote from: Epic Meepo
Quote from: Elemental_Elf4E's monster manuals are superior to 3.5's in every way (save flavor)...
That may be true, but check out the free Pathfinder Bonus Bestiary from the company that published Dungeon and Dragon magazines when they were still in print. Based on that PDF, I suspect that the Pathfinder (edition 3.75) bestiaries are going to be better than either 3.5 or 4e.

Plus, the PDF of the 572-page Pathfinder core rules will be available for only $9.99 when it goes on sale in August. Just based on price alone, it's a 3.75 system worth checking out.

I think its a good hybrid however IMO the 4E system is just easier to utilize out of the book. Having said that, I will pick this bestiary book up if for no other reason than to send more delicious monsters at my poor, poor PCs.

beejazz

#52
June 30, 2009, 12:24:21 AM
Wow... ooooold discussion necro'd with a post that quotes me on another board... weird.

I don't know that my opinion has changed significantly. I'm still a 3x/pathfinder/star wars saga fan, still disinterested in running 4e (but I'll play if it comes up), still writing a system like the ones I like, with a few add-ons and cuts to suit my tastes better.
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Matt Larkin (author)

#53
July 01, 2009, 04:12:32 PM
Admittedly edition wars are little comical. I've felt each edition from second on was an improvement. They tried to use what they learned and what people requested to create a better game. In some ways each moves forward, in some back, but I see a general trend of forward.

After playing the game, I do not see any less emphasis on roleplaying than before. Making the combat rules cleaner and more balanced didn't magically stop me from having a personality when playing. And skill challenges give DMs a way to be consistent and less arbitrary when trying non-combat challenges.

Now if only we can get more TRoS support!
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