A short question about countries

[LordVreeg]

The development of sovereign entities is tied directly to communication level, technologial level, and mostly by the advancement of mercantile tech.
(please note I did not say the # of sovereign entities..I said the development)
As a very close sub-determinate, the population density is also critical.

Wikipedia has many faults, but I think this article that deals with the expansion of Rome is informative as it makes clear the slow torurous pace of expansion and the fact that different types of organizations can exist at the same time (in that Persia and Greece were dominant nation-powers in the Mediteranean while the italian cities were duking it out, based purely on a lack of POPULATION DENSITY).  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_expansion
I have about 74 true country-sovereign states with supposed borders on the Celtrician Continet (the second largest on the planet). There are three times that amount when you add in the tribal groups that exist within/over traditional boundaries due to the lack of actual population, such as the northern Zyjmanese of the Red Pass in the Grey MArch, the southern Zyjmanese of the Astrikon forest, the Giantclan Silverworth in the Western Grey March, and the Firehazer tribes of the Wibble Hills in Trabler.

[Superfluous Crow]

Hmm, i think aiming for an amazingly ambitious 74 sovereign states is to set the bar a bit high for myself :D
But it is just pure awesome that you have managed that. Are all of them distinct cultural groups, or do you have a good deal of break-out states who resemble their birthstate(?) but desired independence for some reason?

[LordVreeg]

Hmm, i think aiming for an amazingly ambitious 74 sovereign states is to set the bar a bit high for myself :D
But it is just pure awesome that you have managed that. Are all of them distinct cultural groups, or do you have a good deal of break-out states who resemble their birthstate(?) but desired independence for some reason?

Frankly, yes.  I did the original spreadsheet for the 'Celtricia of Celtricia' (continent of planet) back in 1984 in lotus 1-2-3, I think.  The breakdown and chronology was critical, as has been the development of those areas (the city states of Ambrettus then the Igboniats competing with the city-state of Winter, which became Winterloo, which became the capital of the Grey March, for example).  Some of them share large-scale cultural traits or descended cultual traits (such as the Harou culture or the clan Kalil cultures), normally these are layered on each other and mixed in the more current population centers.
Even Trabler (where Igbar is situated) is an example of what you speak of, as it was the Northern Argussian Marches for almost 550 years before Trabler Aptor and the merchant guilds rebelled while the Argussians warred on their southern border.
History is messy, and I take full advantage of that.

[Xeviat]

I agree with everyone here; it all depends on the theme you're going for. In a "Points of Light" setting like 4E, you don't want nations as it creates too much stability. There just city states work fine. If you want a politically intriguing game, you probably want actual nations.

For my own setting, I'm first worrying about cultures more than nations. I only have a few nations planned, but I have at least 11 cultures planned for my first continent. If some become nations will depend on the cultures themselves (both dwarf cultures will probably be nations, one triton culture is a nation, one human culture is mostly a nation while another human culture is three nations).

[Wensleydale]

My setting has one main nation, although nation can only loosely be applied to any of the 'states' in the world of Wonders. I much prefer ethnic-based, species-based, and religion-based conflict, as can be seen just by looking at it. On the other hand, the Tandhus isles are effectively just a collection of lots of tiny city-states under the loose rulership of one very weak king. Furthermore, tensions between Dragon-Cult Duer and Ancestor-Worshipping Duer, ethnic tensions between Tandhusi Duer and Shaze Duer, political tensions between Dakrathuk Tandhusi and Ama'thuuk Tandhusi, species tensions between Elves and Duer, linguistic tensions between practically EVERYONE and the Tandhusi...

The list goes on. You don't need nations for conflict or diversity. Then again, Wonders is slightly post-apocalyptic. The Khemet invasion drove many of these peoples out of their homes and into the Tandhus isles, which had just recovered from an enormous inner conflict. So...

[Superfluous Crow]

Yeah, nations rarely see much use in post-apocalyptic settings

[Wensleydale]

Yeah, nations rarely see much use in post-apocalyptic settings

Actually, I can oppose that point. There are other nations in Wonders, but they're almost all colonies across the water or other island states, not really a focus for the setting. It's just that the daemons have overtaken all the mainland nations.

[Superfluous Crow]

i said "rarely" :-p

[mikeg]

I list 23 distinct countries in my campaign, covering a central continental mass, the frontiers of two other continents, and a number of islands.

I think a classic campaign can exist within a single empire, or within a rabble of hundreds of city-states - as long as there is some source of conflict within the civilization (such as rival merchant houses or warring cities), and a source of conflict from outside the civilization (vile hordes from the high plains or awakened horrors from below). But I personally feel that the number of distinct countries (or provinces, principalities, satrapies, tribes, floating barge-towns etc.) should exceed ten or 15. Sometimes fewer cultural entities than that can start to feel monolithic and actually make the world feel smaller IMHO.

An idea to consider is that our concept of a 'nation' is a relatively new one, historically speaking. There is the possibility (more common in Europe after the dissolution of the Roman Empire) that political boundaries and cultural/linguistic boundaries are entirely separate from each other, and all sorts of great game-playing conflicts can arise from this state of affairs. The alternative can risk feeling too homogenous and inorganic. It reminds me of the old Seinfeld bit where he notes that all aliens in the movies dress the same, and then asks what it would be like if everyone on earth just wore blue coveralls and across the chest is a giant 'E'.

[Nomadic]

But I personally feel that the number of distinct countries (or provinces, principalities, satrapies, tribes, floating barge-towns etc.) should exceed ten or 15. Sometimes fewer cultural entities than that can start to feel monolithic and actually make the world feel smaller IMHO.

Nothing wrong with that, sometimes you want your world to feel that way.