Faded : Humans

[Ninja D!]

Firstly, a small correction, there seems to be a reference to halflings under the imperial relations heading. Should probably by changed to Noma, if I'm not correct as you stated in your notes you wanted to remove halflings.

Although I, as some of the others also commented on, feared that they might be a bit too generic, I actually think they worked out rather well. Credible, and with slight personal touches.[/quote]Also, they seem kind of isolationist. My current image of how this would appear would be groups consisting only of Noma traveling between cities consisting only of Imperials and villages consisting only of Highlanders (with a few "Others" thrown in amongst them). They seem a bit TOO different to be able to blend.[/quote]Religion-wise, i like the idea of the Highlanders "borrowing" deities. Do the Imperials care that their gods are taken and somewhat twisted to take on slightly different roles?[/quote]Otherwise a good job. And i like the way you formatted it with the headings.[/quote]Oh, why are they called Faded, by the way?[/quote]Faded[/i] is the name of the setting.

[Pellanor]

Just so you know, I found your design notes quite interesting.

Overall I find that the different human cultures you put together should be nice and easy to understand and use. They're close enough to what we're used to that you don't have to think outside the box when playing one.

However I have to agree with CC about them feeling too isolated. You have three very different cultures that all generally mind their own business. I think you should play up the role of the "Other Humans" more, possibly setting up some organizations that specialize in trade between the different distinct cultures, as well as robber barons and other such interesting groups.

You mention that humans are stubborn expansionists, yet that feeling doesn't come across in any of your cultures. I can imagine the Imperials having a strong army which they try to reclaim the glory of Drozia with. Even if they aren't attacking any of the major cultures, but are instead trying to stomp out the bandits and vagabonds that plague the countryside.

Something else that I noticed. You mentioned that the highlanders often have extra food which they export. However they tend to live in mountains and hills which is usually not the best place for an agricultural society. Hunter Gatherers tend to produce much less food than farming, and can rarely produce a significant surplus. In addition the Imperials probably control the best farming land, as it would have been within the borders of the Drozia, otherwise the empire couldn't have grown as large.
I suggest taking a look at Guns, Germs & Steel by Jared Diamond, as theres a fairly large section on how societies with the best access to agriculture were able to advance the most.

Anyway, you've got some good stuff here. I look forward to seeing this when everything is done.

[Ninja D!]

Overall I find that the different human cultures you put together should be nice and easy to understand and use. They're close enough to what we're used to that you don't have to think outside the box when playing one.

You mention that humans are stubborn expansionists, yet that feeling doesn't come across in any of your cultures. I can imagine the Imperials having a strong army which they try to reclaim the glory of Drozia with. Even if they aren't attacking any of the major cultures, but are instead trying to stomp out the bandits and vagabonds that plague the countryside.[/quote]In addition the Imperials probably control the best farming land, as it would have been within the borders of the Drozia, otherwise the empire couldn't have grown as large.[/quote]Anyway, you've got some good stuff here. I look forward to seeing this when everything is done.[/quote]Thank you very much.  I will be making some corrections (and likely additions at the same time) but this is all I will be presenting about humans until after I have finished dwarves (already mostly there and on my hard drive) and elves (which I need to start on yet).  However, I thank you again for taking the time to look this over and I do really appreciate the comments.

[Ninja D!]

Updated

I have updated Relations under the Imperials to fit changes I have made to the overall setting since it was written.  The changes are mostly minor terminology things but I feel that I have expanded it very slightly as well.

I have also now changed the introduction a little bit so that I feel it now more accurately describes humans, particularly relating to the cultures that I have presented here.

[Xeviat]

Overall, I really like these races. In fact, the level of detail you've given them really makes it so you could get away with only one culture for each of the demi-humans. I still think you could do away with demi-humans entirely, but you're right that a lot of players might not like that.

Aside from a general "keep up the detail", I do have a few questions.

First, it seems odd that the Highlanders don't have an honor code. For instance, death at home being as honorable as death in battle feels wierd to me, what with their real world origins. I suggest you read up on the Heroic Code from Anglo-Saxon culture.

Secondly, I find it odd that all three of these human cultures frown upon Arcane magic. Especially the Noma. While the Noma aren't particularly adept at it (I was expecting them to be Dex/Int for their bonuses, since the others were the other two defense pairs), Arcane magic is very useful for entertaining, especially once the Bard is released.

Again, I want to reiterate how I personally don't like the Imperials. I don't mean that I think they're poorly written, but if I was someone living in this world, or even playing in it, I would not like them. Something about their racism, elitism, and host of other -isms. Thus, kudos to you for being able to illicit an emotional responce out of me.

I do recommend you use some sort of herbal or even magical contraceptive amongst the Imperials to keep the birthrate low. People are going to have sex out of wedlock, no matter the social stigma for it.

Also, I think Nomas should care more about their Mothers than their fathers. In fact, "father" should have clinical connotations in their language. If many are prostitutes, and if they're as free spirited as you describe, I don't see marriages or monogomy being common.

I am glad to see you're using the Halfling stats for something, though. Good job.

[Ninja D!]

First, it seems odd that the Highlanders don't have an honor code. For instance, death at home being as honorable as death in battle feels wierd to me, what with their real world origins. I suggest you read up on the Heroic Code from Anglo-Saxon culture.

Again, I want to reiterate how I personally don't like the Imperials. I don't mean that I think they're poorly written, but if I was someone living in this world, or even playing in it, I would not like them. Something about their racism, elitism, and host of other -isms. Thus, kudos to you for being able to illicit an emotional responce out of me.[/quote]Also, I think Nomas should care more about their Mothers than their fathers. In fact, "father" should have clinical connotations in their language. If many are prostitutes, and if they're as free spirited as you describe, I don't see marriages or monogomy being common.[/quote]many[/b] of them are prostitutes but prostitutes certainly exist since that is a good way of making money.  I'll spend some time thinking about the mother focus but you are probably right and I will likely include something about that.

I am glad to see you're using the Halfling stats for something, though. Good job.

Thanks.  I thought they would be fitting since D&D halflings are pretty much gypsies.  Also, it isn't that I don't like halflings (I've played a halfling character or two) as much as I don't feel they fit in the world.  The Noma fill their roles and I see no need for them.  I really don't like the idea of all traveling entertainers being a certain race.

Thanks for taking the time to look this over and thank you very much for the input.  

[Snargash Moonclaw]

"In general, you will enjoy life with a loving family more than you will enjoy it on the battlefield with 10 enemies trying to kill you at any given time."

A quick note before heading out to work - I applaud this ideal and think that it can be a very viable one (the real stumbling block being reader *preconceptions* that the ready-to-grab Highlander label triggers), but consider well the fact of human nature that you will be far more *aware* of life on the battlefield than surrounded by your loving family. Medieval adrenalin junkies certainly valued their families, but glorified that which gave them the bigger rush. I think you'll need to find a way to address/circumvent this.

[Ninja D!]

"In general, you will enjoy life with a loving family more than you will enjoy it on the battlefield with 10 enemies trying to kill you at any given time."

A quick note before heading out to work - I applaud this ideal and think that it can be a very viable one (the real stumbling block being reader *preconceptions* that the ready-to-grab Highlander label triggers), but consider well the fact of human nature that you will be far more *aware* of life on the battlefield than surrounded by your loving family. Medieval adrenalin junkies certainly valued their families, but glorified that which gave them the bigger rush. I think you'll need to find a way to address/circumvent this.

Thank you.  I understand what you mean and I should consider this a bit more.  I suppose it could be that the Highlander society is so focused on family that they can realize that every time they kill someone on the battlefield, they are killing a member of a family.  Also, they have been exposed to real combat very little so they may not have had the chance to develop that trait before they developed their more peace loving side.  Still, preconceptions will always be the biggest problem.

[Ninja D!]

Updated

I updated the Imperial entry from the Religion headline through the Relations headline.  It was mostly fixing and clarifying but there was also a fair amount of expanding.

I updated the Imperial entry from Social Structure (which was a very minor change) though Education.  I made some big updates this time and added a lot.  If you are interested in this thread I would suggest that you take another look at Imperials.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

I suppose it could be that the Highlander society is so focused on family that they can realize that every time they kill someone on the battlefield, they are killing a member of a family.

This is a great way to start it. Look back in their history and describe how this arose as such an overriding cultural value before conflicting needs (like warfare) were introduced. From there just follow basic reasoning as to how it influences their approach to warfare - how they conduct it as a result - and then how it shapes other conduct, which will give the sense of how "adventurers" from that culture behave when "adventuring." For some similar concepts and developmental paths you may find the description of dwarves in my world helpful - there are some clear differences between the two, but I think the parallels will illustrate a thought process which can spark some ideas for you here. The culture has a potential for becoming very different and interesting. The thing to try and work into it for the sake of creating an interesting setting/people to play is a solid and direct sense of how they do engage in conflict if they don't wish to engage in unnecessary physical violence - are they masters of camouflage, stealth and movement/mobility? (Look at the old descriptions of the Pictish half of Highland ancestry - they were also described as diminutive people. . .) Non-lethal divine magics (e.g., charm/stun/sleep type area spells and/or teleport other type effects - mastering mobility could tie in well with also controlling/forcing the movements of others. "Go away, or next time I'll send you a hundred yards up!) Are they skilled orators and debaters? Think here of the traditional skills of Celtic Bards, Ovates, etc. - if, as an egalitarian society, they have a strong tradition of tribal/village councils (along Native American lines) coupled with a strong bardic tradition (storytellers bridge the narrow gap between the two examples well) they may highly prize, develop and utilize persuasive skills.

[Ninja D!]

For some similar concepts and developmental paths you may find the description of dwarves in my world helpful

The culture has a potential for becoming very different and interesting.[/quote]Thank you.

While all your suggestions seem better than anything I considered, they look like they would require a massive reworking of the culture.  Maybe that is partially in order.  For the time being, I am very tired, but I will consider all of this tomorrow and hopefully make some changes for the better.  Thank you very much for the input, once again.

[Snargash Moonclaw]

You may not really need a massive reworking, unless you find that some of your original concepts of the culture lead to implications relevant to the rest of the setting that contradict what you're going after. While everyone's creative process differs to some (varying) degree, the approach I take to this may be of use. (It should be easy to discern in the dwarven material as well.) Keeping in mind whatever "end product" ideas I have about what the culture is like at "present" gameworld time, I basically sit for a bit w/my eyes closed and try to imagine myself there - in both the physical and social environments. Once I've got that basic image and any associated sensory impressions I would be experiencing fairly well established I start expanding on it in a fairly logical fashion by seeking to identify and follow the train of any implications arising from the imagined environment, primarily by asking myself questions with Maslow's "hierarchy of needs" somewhere in the back of my mind as a sort of checklist. To illustrate, I'll do this w/what you've posted re: the Highlanders. I'll have to make a few assumptions about geography, climate, terrain and natural populations, based on the idea that their environment is essentially the same as the Scottish Highlands. (Take any of what follows w/a liberal sprinkling of salt - very few conclusions are likely to represent sole possibilities, esp. if any of the conditions leading to a given conclusion are changed.)

Initial questions "What is important here," "What matters to me," and "How do I accomplish/do/get that - what do I need to do so?" Engaging senses in the physical environment is crucial for me. If it's very cold or hot then I'm thinking about what kind of clothes I need, from that: what is available to make them out of, what's there to eat, etc. What kind of dangers are present - both natural environment and other races/people. How do I protect myself - what's available (Steel, stone, wood?) to make armor, concealment, weapons and so forth - that tells me how I would have learned to fight/flee, whatever. What social structure and values am I engaging? How do I live/function here according to that?

Bugger - I don't have time to play with that further tonight - will get back to it later.

[Ninja D!]

Bugger - I don't have time to play with that further tonight - will get back to it later.

You certainly have an interesting approach to things.  I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on the Highlanders before I make my changes.  I think I will focus on my changes to the Noma today until then.

[Ninja D!]

Anyone that has given me good thoughts in this thread (which is pretty much everyone that has posted here) is free to take this badge, if they want it:  

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[Acrimone]

I've got a ton of questions and comments... what you've written is quite exceptional and I'm going to steal the formatting/headings for describing my own races.  But since space and time are at a premium, let's start with my biggest question.

What does it mean that the Highlanders and Noma think that everyone is "equal"?  Clearly, Imperial society has some sort of semi-codified class system, and there is much nose-downlooking from class to class.  But is this belief in equality the same with both the Highlanders and the Noma?

And if it is the same, is it just a class thing?  Does it have to do with legal rights?  (That would be hard given the Highlander's approach to government.)  Does it have to do with some inherent human dignity?  Is it a simple belief in the Golden Rule?  Is it equality before the Gods?  Is it immutable?  In other words, does everyone just *start out* equal, or are people always equal?

The notion of equality is a tricky one -- it can mean several dozen different things.  I think it would really help flesh out both the Highlanders and the Noma to explain what exactly it is we're talking about.