Elves vs. Dwarves

[Loch Belthadd]

remember that the tavernmaker site is run by dwarves...

[Elemental_Elf]

So that's Dwarves in spots 1, 3, and 6.  Elves in 2, 4, 5, and 7.

I guess that means I'm voting for dwarves.

There's nothing more pure and beautiful than good ole fashioned Dwarf Logic!

remember that the tavernmaker site is run by dwarves...

Never Trust an ELF!

[Loch Belthadd]

your avatar is an ELF!

[Nomadic]

Worst is is Birsignr, the pacing was really bad, I think its because he split what should have been the last book into two separate books, kinda screwed up his pacing, I think at least.

My problem with eldest (actually a pretty common problem I think) is that it jumps around way too much, the story just doesn't mesh well. Brisingr did that a bit too but it wasn't so bad. Personally I think the inheritance trilogy is Paolini trying to get a feel for a good writing style. He has the capability I feel to do it, but he isn't there yet. It's like he's still grasping for something.

@knight - I have in fact seen this fabled dwarven crafts work and beer. It puts the elves to shame (oh and homemade cookies are far better than keebler cookies).

[Drizztrocks]

When I started righting I had the same problem. Things would happen to fast, the story would jump around. The characters would go to far off places and do many great things in a short period of time.

[Xeviat]

So far, I've seen more Elves played in my group than Dwarves. We believe this is because the class that is traditionally Dwarven, the fighter, is not perfectly synergistic with the Dwarf, while the Elf (Wood Elf of yore) fits perfectly with the Ranger (explicitly the Bow Ranger). Now, Dwarves do make decent fighters, with their Con and Wis bonuses both suplimenting fighter secondary scores (easier to get the high Con required for plate and hammer feats; Wis suppliments fighter feats and Opportunity Attacks), but the lack of a bonus to Strength makes them less likely to be utilized as Fighters.

[note]A "perfect" class for a race is a class which has a primary and secondary ability score that a race gives ability score bonuses (dragonborn inspiring warlord, eladrin wand wizard, elf archer ranger, halfling cunning rogue). An "excellent" class is a class whose attack stat is a bonus stat for a race. A "decent" class is a class whose secondary stat is a bonus stat for a race.[/note] The only Dwarf in our games so far was a Dwarven Cleric (Wis cleric). Due to their bonuses, Dwarves make "excellent" Wisdom Clerics (Laser Clerics), Constitution Warlocks (Hell-locks and 1/2 Starlocks), and soon Constitution Bards (Melee bards); these three classes don't really scream "Dwarf", which might be lending to a decrease in frequency of dwarf PCs. On the other hand, they make "decent" Fighters (hammer, axe, polearm), Paladins, Rangers, and Wizards (orb). Unfortunately, the Dwarf does not have a "perfect" class.

On the other hand, Elves have one "perfect" class (Archer Ranger, which utilizes Dex primarily and Wis secondarily), two "excellent" classes (Laser Clerics, any Rogue), and four "decent" classes (polearm Fighter, any Paladin, melee Ranger, orb Wizard). The only classes which the Elf doesn't have a synergistic ability score are Warlock and Warlord. Ontop of their ability bonuses, their racial abilities work exceptionally well for an Archer Ranger.

[Loch Belthadd]

you bearded, short people just got :pwned:

[Xeviat]

you bearded, short people just got :pwned:

 :1337:

Thank you, thank you.

 :muffy: (read: crunchy)

But in all fairness, a player of mine is looking at making a dwarf for his next character. Now that Martial Power is out, he loves the Battlerager alternate class feature for Fighters, but he realized something disheartening: He is going to have to lose his Fighter +1 to hit to gain the Battlerager ability. While he was previously fine with having a 16 Str and an 18 Con, now he's going to have to fight to start with an 18 Str so that his to-hit doesn't suffer (his to-hit is already going to be lower since he's going to be using a hammer).  So, while his damage will be incredible, his to-hit is going to be so much lower than a sword fighter with the other builds that he is worried if he'll be able to perform his defender-y role.

[Nomadic]

I personally love dwarven clerics. They mesh very well with dwarven culture and style (the last character I played before I was active on the cbg was a dwarven cleric of thor). The other reason is that everyone and their mother's dog doesn't want to play a dwarf. Elves seem way too overused to me and I only play them when they match what I want well (like titus if that holylands campaign ever takes off) or I was forced through the luck of the draw (like hsiuh in celtricia).

[Elemental_Elf]

Actually I've always thought of Dwarves as the quintessential Clerics, rather than Fighters. The fluff of the two is a near perfect fit, just as much as Wood Elf & Ranger, High Elf & Wizard and Halfling & Rogue are. Plus, Dwarven Clerics, rather than Dwarven Fighters, are the most common troupe.

At any rate, Dwarves were (unintentionally) the best PHB race in 3.x, so I suppose it was inevitable another would supplant Dwarves in 4e. I had hoped the Halfling would take the mantle but oh well. :)

[Jharviss]

I'm not going to read the actual thread, only the title. Then I'm going to give my unwanted 2 cents. Following that, everyone's going to shake their head and keep posting, and maybe somebody will get in a sly "Jharviss, that was unnecessary," or, "Do you care to elaborate?"



Dwarves are better.

[Nomadic]

I'm not going to read the actual thread, only the title. Then I'm going to give my unwanted 2 cents. Following that, everyone's going to shake their head and keep posting, and maybe somebody will get in a sly "Jharviss, that was unnecessary," or, "Do you care to elaborate?"



Dwarves are better.

Actually that fit the topic perfectly. Do you perhaps have dwarven blood in you? Cause your perception is top notch.

[Elemental_Elf]

Dwarves are better.

Sweet!

[Xeviat]

Dwarves are better.

Crap. I lost.

[Elemental_Elf]

Wait, I have another proverbial nail to go into the equally proverbial Elven Coffin - The Anti-Elf Anthem! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVwYKtgFYCc&feature=channel