Nationalities

[khyron1144]

United States.

As an aside, I am about an eighth Potawotomi Native American.  The rest of my ethnic heritage is various kinds of white, including English, Irish, Lithuanian, and Russian.  My mom tries to be active with the local Native American community, but no one takes a blond Potawotomi too seriously.

[Stargate525]

I apologize in advance for derailing this...

It should not be difficult to understand why I would take offense at being told to "get over" something which is going on right now.

Really? Native American lands are being taken by force right now? I know something, I would hope, about the legal debacle, but I was talking about the initial push westward.

As for being civil - I'm trying very hard to keep my temper here and will point out that I did not use the word among my (biological) father's people which basically translates as "rabid beast" even though I am, if not quite that pissed, certainly that disgusted.

I'm really not trying to piss you off. I apologize if I am. Understand where I'm coming from. In Wisconsin, as well as Oklahoma (my roomate's home state), we have not had good relations with Indians.

SG, yes you are mistaken - you are making it ever more clear that you have no inkling of the issue(s) which I initially raised.

The problem I have is that I can't find a clear, concise statement of what that issue is. All I ever get from Indians is a sense of dissatisfaction and, from many, a desire to 'get off their land.' Something which is ridiculous (I was born here too bub.)

The implication your last statement carries with it would be like saying that the Irish people didn't exist while Ireland was ruled by England, that Jews did not exist until Israel was (re)founded or that the Tibetan people do not exist now.

Politically, they didn't[Don't]. Note 'nationality,' not 'ethnicity.'

The whole matter of legal cases regarding the (current) honoring and enforcement of treaty terms (often Tribal Hunting and Fishing Rights cases) gets very strange and complicated - because here we are looking at entities which the US Gov't does acknowledge as Sovereign States when it suits them. That's not a facetious statement, Tribal Sovereignty under US policy exists primarily on paper outside of a relatively few specific court rulings enforcing it.

See, this is what annoys me. Either one or the other, but not both. I understand it's not your(referring to the Natives) fault, but still.

Are there any Native nations recognized by anyone other than the country they reside in?

[Snargash Moonclaw]

Apology accepted - and yeah - it's way confusing a morass. Given the number of questions I'm going to move this to a new thread.

[SDragon]

I am what is affectionately referred to as an American Mutt; the product of the great Melting Pot.

I know for a fact that I'm part Irish, English, and Mi'kmaq (although due to confusion, I've ended up learning more about the Abnaki), and I think I'm also German and French, along with quite a few other ethnicities that I either don't know of and/or can't think of.

Then there's the Italian. This isn't actually part of my genetic background, at least as far as I know, but it's still a part of me that I consider just as important as any other part of me. My "second" (honorary) mother is very much Italian, and I picked up several traits from her when I was growing up. To this day, I still talk with my hands a little, although it's more noticeable around people I know very well.

[Llum]

If we start going back generations I think me and my mom traced something ridiculous like 20+ ethnic groups in the last 5 generations.

[Loch Belthadd]

I know for a fact that I am part French-Canadian, Irish, regular French, Native American, Italian, English(UK), and possibly German.

[Wensleydale]

You guys should just become a 4 state (at minimum) federation and get it over with. Ya'll have been dragging your feet on this issue, IMO. Better to be a federation than 4 independent nations all under the thumb of the EU.

But we basically ARE a four-state federation, only all extremely dependent on the overhead body (i.e. the British government). Legally speaking, the Welsh Assembly and Northern Irish Assembly have no sovereign power, which means any decision made by them can be overruled by the British Parliament at any time. The Scottish Parliament have slightly more power. Wales, for example, is independent only in the following senses:

1) We get recognised as a separate area on the map, with our own capital. Sometimes.
2) We have our own national anthem.
3) The Welsh assembly chooses how to spend money given to them (to a degree, anyway)
4) We're allowed to compete in some sporting events as an independent team (although not the Olympics, where we're strangely considered a non-competing country despite the GB team encompassing the entire island).
5) We're sort of something to do with the EU

We're not, however, in the following senses:

1) Our parliament relies totally on the British parliament to exist, legislate, and so on.
2) Our resources (especially water) are piped away into England without any money going to the Assembly, etc.
3) We're not allowed to compete independently in the Olympics.
4) We don't have our own internet .tld, we don't have any status in the UN, etc
5) Almost all of our national institutions (i.e. the NHS) are controlled directly from London

So we can't really be considered four totally-independent countries, we're just 'Devolved', that is, each branch has some authority over its own affairs.

[Cheomesh]

This is what happens when you're conquered, Cymry.  I'm amazed you get those rights at all, considering British history.

M.

[Wensleydale]

This is what happens when you're conquered, Cymry.  I'm amazed you get those rights at all, considering British history.

M.

You mean Cymry? Or Cymro? Or Cymru? :P

So'm I, really. It's some kind of big English guilt thing they've got going on. I think it's mainly due to an immensely vocal minority made up of Plaid Cymru and the SNP that forced the government to put it to a referendum, which then of course they had to stick to. Northern Ireland on the other hand is a whole other affair.

[Elemental_Elf]

You guys should just become a 4 state (at minimum) federation and get it over with. Ya'll have been dragging your feet on this issue, IMO. Better to be a federation than 4 independent nations all under the thumb of the EU.

But we basically ARE a four-state federation, only all extremely dependent on the overhead body (i.e. the British government). Legally speaking, the Welsh Assembly and Northern Irish Assembly have no sovereign power, which means any decision made by them can be overruled by the British Parliament at any time. The Scottish Parliament have slightly more power. Wales, for example, is independent only in the following senses:

1) We get recognised as a separate area on the map, with our own capital. Sometimes.
2) We have our own national anthem.
3) The Welsh assembly chooses how to spend money given to them (to a degree, anyway)
4) We're allowed to compete in some sporting events as an independent team (although not the Olympics, where we're strangely considered a non-competing country despite the GB team encompassing the entire island).
5) We're sort of something to do with the EU

We're not, however, in the following senses:

1) Our parliament relies totally on the British parliament to exist, legislate, and so on.
2) Our resources (especially water) are piped away into England without any money going to the Assembly, etc.
3) We're not allowed to compete independently in the Olympics.
4) We don't have our own internet .tld, we don't have any status in the UN, etc
5) Almost all of our national institutions (i.e. the NHS) are controlled directly from London

So we can't really be considered four totally-independent countries, we're just 'Devolved', that is, each branch has some authority over its own affairs.

Like I said, you guys have been limping along and doing a half-arsed job that doesn't really accomplish much other than needless amounts of legal wrangling. Honestly, you guys (Scots and Welsh) are nothing more than puppet regimes, IMO. You have no real independence in domestic affairs for the simple reason that London tells you what you can use the money they give you for and if London doesn't like something your government has done, they can override it. You may as well be in a unitary state at that point.

P.S. In a true federation, you wouldn't be competing under the 'Welsh' flag in any international sporting events (save some EU or Commonwealth ones) any more than there can be an independent Nevadan team, separate from the US's team.

[Llum]

The Scots actually have a lot more freedom then the Welsh, there semi-autonomous.

[Steerpike]

I'm Canadian, of English descent.  I live in Vancouver, and have lived in and around the city my whole life.

[Elemental_Elf]

The Scots actually have a lot more freedom then the Welsh, there semi-autonomous.

True, very true. I don't know, I can never wrap my heads around the point of a unitary state when you have such vocal ethnic minorities in lands that were once independent nations. the UK should take a page out of Spain's handbook, throw up their arms and say 'enough is enough already!' I'm unsure why London is so against the idea, its not like England, even if it's split into multiple states, would not dominate the Federation. Their population alone would assure that (even if England were split into 6 states each would still have 3 million MORE people than Scotland and 5 million MORE than Wales).

Now one might ask 'but why change anything at all then?' My answer would be that, on a domestic front, Scotland and Wales would have much, much more freedom. So really, its a win, win situation.

[Llum]

Because historically the English want to own all the British Isles. That is a big part of it. Scotland is only as independent as it is because of many many wars, that the Scots won.

[Elemental_Elf]

The old Homogeny vs. Heterogeneity debate. I'm a hardcore federalist at heart, so I have a definite preference for Federations over unitary states, especially unitary states that encompass large and diverse populous.