Non-Experience Rewards

[Velox]

I really want to think of many ways to reward players; Experience point and levels tend to get a little boring after a while, and if experience points are the only reward available, characters will probably level up fast.

It seems Snakefing was thinking along similar lines...

I'm also trying to think of other ways to formalize rewards besides gains in skills and abilities.

Some areas to think about:

Reputation: A character with a large number of reputation points (RP) would be more widely recognized. The character might be more well-liked or feared. Perhaps a system by which certain social or reputational feats and abilities can be purchased with RP? Reputation could be enhanced by public actions or songs and poetry. Maybe you can buy reputation by donating sums of money for public works?

Influence: A character with influence has access to additional resources beyond just his or her personal wealth and abilities. This might be used to rouse up some rabble, to gain the temporary use of a base of operations, a force of men at arms at her disposal. Maybe a way that IP can be traded for specific benefits? This might be very campaign specific, though. Influence is gained mostly by doing favors for prominent people or institutions.

Contacts and allies: Good roleplaying might be rewarded by designating a certain NPC as a contact or ally for the character. This would turn a given NPC from a one-time encounter to a potentially recurring figure.

Much of this is really around rewarding the player by making his or her character more interesting to play rather than more powerful.

This all gives a player many more options and avenues when confronted with a problem; it makes the world respond to the character's achievements by recognizing all that he's done, and giving him respect and power in return.

What else does a player want? What else could we, as DMs, give them?


I had a few ideas, rather specific to certain characters, but they go as such:
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*If the character (and player) smokes cigars, bring him a fine cigar to use in-game.

*If the character creates things (devices, guns, potions, alchemicals, robots, etc), sketch a schematic and allow the character to build the device.

*Give the player a medal to wear or put on his character sheet, recognizing some great deed (like the end of the Wizard of Oz)

*create a new feat for that character

*create a new spell, and draw a formula, for that character

*give items that the characters find inticing/useful (rare components, cool weapons, special ammunition, cash)

*buy a special prop for that player to use (getting a cheap costume-shop "captains hat" when the player gets his own ship)
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What else can we do? What else do players want? Let us join forces, and compile a mighty heap of ideas!

[Biohazard]

Sometimes I think my ultimate character goal is to watch my character go out with a bang. Like, do something that makes an adrenaline surge look like laying on the couch and doing nothing. That and just do something very dramatic... whether for good or bad. Sometimes the most interesting thing is the end.

[beejazz]

Reputation, influence (and here I'd have influence earned with different groups earned and tracked separately), and contacts are pretty big.

Additionally consider gear and/or wealth. Both are a pretty big deal for adventurers.

Making players work for their spells is always an option. Wizards in D&D or my ritual/spell magic system fit the bill there. Or consider "pokemon" style summoning. You've got to kill or make a bargain with a supernatural entity to summon it or one of its minions later.

Story rewards can be awesome (finally achieving revenge, getting hitched with that princess you rescued, wild parties, knighthood and other noble titles).

Consider also permanent setbacks coming about. Old school D&D had level loss. CoC had its sanity. RQ had its lost limbs and other permanent injuries. I'm partial to the last, albeit with magical healing or some kinda prosthetics. Likewise consider how players make enemies, get too poor to afford a meal, accidentally explode themselves with magic, etc. etc.

I like in general the idea that playing well or poorly does more than level you up / kill you and that's it. I like the idea of all these intermediate setbacks and goals and things written into the system somehow.

[LD]

Action Points to use to break the game or reroll important rolls or to do something very interesting like swing from a chandelier and strike a foe and get a height bonus for impaling them.

Statues. It is always nice to build statues to great heroes. :)

[snakefing]

A lot of these kinds of rewards (story rewards, reputation, influence, etc.) can be dealt with informally as part of the normal development of an on-going campaign. Obviously, different campaigns will require different approaches. But you might also create some more formalized methods. Action Points or Story Points or some other bonus that allows the player to change or briefly control the narrative are an example of that.

I'm trying to decide whether there is a good way to formalize things like reputation or influence. I've played in games that provided reputation and influence points, but they didn't get used much. Partly because the nature of the campaign and the group didn't favor them much; partly because there weren't many real guidelines for them; and partly because they were too abstract.

Beejazz's point about influence here is a good one. Abstract influence isn't much use. You need to have influence with someone or something. A temple, a noble house, a merchant or guild house, or maybe even a more abstract grouping like a social class or a certain profession. This would make tracking influence more complicated.

Also, I might want to formalize the use of Influence Points. For example, how many Influence Points do you need to be promoted to Archbishop, or elected to the Guild Council? Can you spend influence to get the local Duke to commit some of his men at arms to assist you? Or convince a group of thugs to kidnap the sister of a recalcitrant merchant?

The same things could be said for Reputation, since it is not just how well known you are, but what you are known for. Reputation points might need to be associated with a concept or key word, such as "brave", "merciless", "supporter of Prince Rupert". And again, to really formalize this, you'd need to be able to categorize what the effect of a certain level of reputation might be.

I'm not really sure that formalizing these things is all that useful. Sometimes if you make a list of things that you can do, you risk people acting as if you can't do anything that isn't listed. That wouldn't really be the point.

[LD]

The same things could be said for Reputation, since it is not just how well known you are, but what you are known for. Reputation points might need to be associated with a concept or key word, such as "brave", "merciless", "supporter of Prince Rupert". And again, to really formalize this, you'd need to be able to categorize what the effect of a certain level of reputation might be.

Exalted's dot system has good mechanics for that.
For example
0 dots of reputation mean (Who are you? A Hermit?)
1 dot of reputation means (Some folks on your street know you. Some people in the office know you. You aren't a hermit, you get around and talk a bit)
2 dots mean (Most people where you work know you or of you. People have seen something you wrote in a few letters to an editor.)
3 dots mean (You are generally known at your place of work. You are a manager or a junior VP; you have a piece of academic work that is cited by a few people.)
4 dots mean (You are a President or a CEO of a small/mid-sized company; You have published extensively)
5 dots mean (You are a CEO of a large corporation)

...I always thought Exalted scaled up a bit too fast- An 8 or 10 dot system might be more appropriate.

[snakefing]

As a descriptive scale, that works okay. But advancement is hard to control because there are so few steps. Maybe if you needed X*10 Rep Points to by your Xth dot. That way you could give out a few points here and there without immediately advancing.

[beejazz]

Beejazz's point about influence here is a good one. Abstract influence isn't much use. You need to have influence with someone or something. A temple, a noble house, a merchant or guild house, or maybe even a more abstract grouping like a social class or a certain profession. This would make tracking influence more complicated.

Also, I might want to formalize the use of Influence Points. For example, how many Influence Points do you need to be promoted to Archbishop, or elected to the Guild Council? Can you spend influence to get the local Duke to commit some of his men at arms to assist you? Or convince a group of thugs to kidnap the sister of a recalcitrant merchant?[/quote]The same things could be said for Reputation, since it is not just how well known you are, but what you are known for. Reputation points might need to be associated with a concept or key word, such as "brave", "merciless", "supporter of Prince Rupert". And again, to really formalize this, you'd need to be able to categorize what the effect of a certain level of reputation might be.[/quote]I'm not really sure that formalizing these things is all that useful. Sometimes if you make a list of things that you can do, you risk people acting as if you can't do anything that isn't listed. That wouldn't really be the point.
[/quote]
I see that as applicable with things like the contact system I mentioned, but not necessarily for the rest. Class features, feats, race features, etc. are all things other people can't do, but skills and almost anything handled with a check are inherently flexible mechanics. They define what anyone and everyone can attempt, and where only the odds of success are variable.

[Seraph]

Beejazz's point about influence here is a good one. Abstract influence isn't much use. You need to have influence with someone or something. A temple, a noble house, a merchant or guild house, or maybe even a more abstract grouping like a social class or a certain profession. This would make tracking influence more complicated.

Also, I might want to formalize the use of Influence Points. For example, how many Influence Points do you need to be promoted to Archbishop, or elected to the Guild Council? Can you spend influence to get the local Duke to commit some of his men at arms to assist you? Or convince a group of thugs to kidnap the sister of a recalcitrant merchant?

I'm not sure of the details of your system Beejazz, but really, using these 2 ideas here, you can have both specialized reputation, and a more generalized reputation.  I will explain: You can have reputation within a specific field judged straight up by points, and every so many points, your general reputation bumps up a bit, such that now people outside your field are aware of you and judge you.  I mean think about it: we have celebrities who do all sorts of things.  We have celebrity athletes, actors, politicians, and in a sense, even some businessmen have a sort of celebrity.  If everyone knows who you are and what you do, then even if you only have a reputation for one thing, EVERYONE still knows about it.  Those within your field are more discerning, which is why they pay attention to specific individual points rather than just tiers of points.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Sometimes I think my ultimate character goal is to watch my character go out with a bang. Like, do something that makes an adrenaline surge look like laying on the couch and doing nothing. That and just do something very dramatic... whether for good or bad. Sometimes the most interesting thing is the end.

I've felt like this at times. For certain characters, especially, how you go out it important to the concept.

I think any game should include story rewards, but not necessarily codify them into the rules.

[beejazz]

@Seraphim: That is a pretty nifty possibility. So general reputation hinging on influence... sounds pretty sweet.

[LordVreeg]

I have a very social heavy game.  So these questions come up quite a bit.  
In my Igbar game, the group is newer, and more contained in an area, so this is easier.  The Bardic inns of Igbar are hotbeds of intrigue and influence, and since two members of the New Legion are in Bardic Guilds, they get to experience the effect of reputation and fame from the inside.  But when the GM is wiling to spend the time playing the day-to-day life of the players (something I may go overboard in) the players are far more likely to garner and enjoy those in-game rewards.  But the GM has got to be willing to play those in-game rewards, and inclde them in the gane play itself.

[Velox]

Very good! Reputation is a great way for the game world to react to the players advancement, achievement, and deeds.

What else, other than reputation, do players enjoy? What makes them salivate?

Going out with a bang, eh? Very Vahalla. Well to you Dane descendants, let me pose the question: What is a good death?

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I tried messing with reputation mechanics once. Interesting, but it became hard to justify with a group that was traveling a lot including to whole other countries (and once to Tartarus, and later back in time).