VP/WP System Discussion

[CYMRO]

CYMRO, you're saying that, when a rogue makes a successful sneak attack, in addition to dealing VP damage as normal, they'll deal an amount of WP damage equal to a Die plus a modifier? What if it were a die+rogue's int mod, so it scales more in relation to opponent's constitution scores?

I do like this option better than the other one (the one where the opponent makes a save or takes wound damage equal to the vp damage dealt) because this is more in line with current sneak attack (it's just extra damage), and it doesn't favor one weapon over another (like an "auto-crit" would favor high multipliers).

I'm not sure if this discussion lost its steam.

Yes, a d12 plus int modifier would be a good alternative.

I am going to post later tonight my take on this system, especially as regards how it affects resource points and their usage.

[CYMRO]

This is what I came up with.  It is geared toward a resource point system, so some things might be inapplicable to a standard campaign.

Vitality and Wound Points

Vitality Points
Vitality points are a measure of a characterâ,¬,,¢s ability to turn a direct hit into a graze or a glancing blow with no serious consequences.   Vitality points go up with level, giving high-level characters more ability to shrug off attacks. Most types of damage reduce vitality points.
Characters gain vitality points as they gain levels.   At each level a character rolls a vitality die and adds his Constitution modifier, adding the total to his vitality point total. (A character always gains at least 1 vitality point per level, regardless of his roll or Constitution modifier.) A 1st-level character gets the maximum vitality die result rather than rolling.

Wound Points
Wound points measure how much true physical damage a character can withstand. Damage reduces wound points only after all vitality points are gone, or when a character is struck by a critical hit, sneak attack, or other specialized attack. A character has a number of wound points equal to her current Constitution score.

Critical Hits
A critical hitâ,¬,,¢s multiplied damage is applied to your foeâ,¬,,¢s vitality points.  In addition to this, you roll your weaponâ,¬,,¢s normal damage die and apply that roll, without any modifiers, to your foeâ,¬,,¢s wound points.  
Any critical hit automatically overcomes a creatureâ,¬,,¢s damage reduction, regardless of whether or not the attack could normally do so.

Injury and Death
Vitality and wound points together measure how hard a character is to hurt and kill. The damage from each successful attack and each fight accumulates, dropping a characterâ,¬,,¢s vitality point or wound point total until he runs out of points.

0 Vitality Points
At 0 vitality points, a character can no longer avoid taking real physical damage. Any additional damage he receives reduces his wound points.

Taking Wound Damage
The first time a character takes wound damageâ,¬'even a single pointâ,¬'he becomes fatigued. A fatigued character canâ,¬,,¢t run or charge and takes a -2 penalty to Strength and Dexterity until he has rested for 8 hours (or until the wound damage is healed, if that occurs first). Additional wound damage doesnâ,¬,,¢t make the character exhausted.
In addition, any time an attack deals wound damage to a character, he must succeed on a Fortitude saving throw (DC 5 + number of wound points lost from the attack) or be stunned for 1d4 rounds. (During that time, any other character can take a standard action to help the stunned character recover; doing so ends the stunned condition.)
A character may spend a number of his resource points equal to the wound point damage to recover.

0 Wound Points
Wound points cannot drop below 0; any damage that would cause a characterâ,¬,,¢s wound point total to drop below 0 simply causes the character to have 0 wound points.
At 0 wound points, a character is disabled and must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude save. If he succeeds on the save, he is merely disabled. If he fails, he falls unconscious and begins dying.

Disabled
A disabled character is conscious, but can only take a single move or standard action each turn (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesnâ,¬,,¢t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the GM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) worsen the characterâ,¬,,¢s condition to dying (unless it involved healing; see below).

Dying
A dying character is unconscious and near death. Each round on his turn, a dying character must make a Fortitude save (DC 10, +1 per turn after the first) to become stable.
If the character fails the save, he dies.
If the character succeeds on the save by less than 5, he does not die but does not improve. He is still dying and must continue to make Fortitude saves every round.
If the character succeeds on the save by 5 or more but by less than 10, he becomes stable but remains unconscious.
If the character succeeds on the save by 10 or more, he becomes conscious and disabled.
Another character can make a dying character stable by succeeding on a DC 15 Heal check as a standard action (which provokes attacks of opportunity).
A character who is dying can spend 3 resource points to become disabled.

Stable Characters and Recovery
A stable character is unconscious. Every hour, a stable character must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10, +1 per hour after the first) to remain stable.  If the character fails the save, he becomes dying.
If the character succeeds on the save by less than 5, he does not get any worse, but does not improve. He is still stable and unconscious, and must continue to make Fortitude saves every hour.
If the character succeeds on the save by 5 or more, he becomes conscious and disabled.
An unaided stable, conscious character at 0 wound points has a 10% chance to start recovering wound points naturally that day.
Once an unaided character starts recovering wound points naturally, he is no longer in danger of dying.

Recovering with Help
A dying character can be made stable with a DC 15 Heal check (a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity). One hour after a tended, dying character becomes stable, roll d%. He has a 10% chance of regaining consciousness, at which point he becomes disabled. If he remains unconscious, he has the same chance to regain consciousness every hour. Even while unconscious, he recovered wound points naturally, becoming conscious and able to resume normal activity when his wound points rise to 1 or higher.

Special Damage Situations

Coup de Grace
A coup de grace functions normally in that it automatically hits and scores a critical hit. If the defender survives the damage, he must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the amount of WP +VP damage dealt) or die.

Healing
After taking damage, a character can recover vitality and wound points through natural healing (over the course of hours or days), or by magic. In any case, a character canâ,¬,,¢t regain vitality points or wound points above his full normal totals.

Natural Healing
Characters recover vitality points at a rate of one vitality point per hour per character level.
With a full nightâ,¬,,¢s rest, a character recovers 1 wound point per character level (minimum 1 per night), or twice that amount with complete bed rest for 24 hours. Any significant interruption during the rest period prevents the character from healing that night.

Assisted Healing
A character who provides long-term care doubles the rate at which a wounded character recovers lost vitality and wound points.

Magical Healing
Healing spells and powers, or feats that give healing powers, heal wound points first, then the balance of points, if any, is applied to healing vitality points.

NPCs and Monsters
Size   Wound Point
Multiplier
Fine   Ãƒ'"1/8
Diminutive   Ãƒ'"Ã,¼
Tiny   Ãƒ'"Ã,½
Small   Ãƒ'"1
Medium   Ãƒ'"1
Large   Ãƒ'"1
Huge   Ãƒ'"2
Gargantuan   Ãƒ'"4
Colossal   Ãƒ'"8
For Small, Medium and Large creatures, a monsterâ,¬,,¢s wound point total is equal to its current Constitution score. Creatures smaller or larger than that have their wound point total multiplied by a factor based on their size, as indicated on the table.   A monsterâ,¬,,¢s vitality point total is equal to the number of hit points it would normally have, based on its type and Constitution score.

Creatures without Constitution Scores
Some creatures, such as undead and constructs, do not have Constitution scores. If a creature has no Constitution score, it has no vitality points. Instead, it has wound points equal to the number of vitality points it would have based on its HD and type. Such creatures are never fatigued or stunned by wound damage.

Bonus Hit Points
If a creature would have bonus hit points based on its type, these are treated as bonus wound points. (For example, a Medium construct gets 20 bonus wound points.) The same holds true for any permanent effect that increases a characterâ,¬,,¢s hit point total (such as the Toughness feat, which adds 3 to the characterâ,¬,,¢s wound point total).   Resource points may be used to augment wound points.

Damage Reduction
Damage reduction functions normally, reducing damage dealt by attacks. However, any critical hit automatically overcomes a creatureâ,¬,,¢s damage reduction, regardless of whether the attack could normally do so. For example, a critical hit against a skeleton (DR 5/bludgeoning) overcomes the creatureâ,¬,,¢s damage reduction even if it was hit with a weapon that does not deal bludgeoning damage.

Fast Healing
Creatures with fast healing regain vitality points at an exceptionally fast rate, usually 1 or more vitality points per round, as given in the creatureâ,¬,,¢s description (for example, a vampire has fast healing 5).
If a creature with fast healing has no Constitution score, fast healing restores lost wound points instead. The same doesnâ,¬,,¢t apply to creatures that have no vitality points but do have a Constitution score (such as a human warrior or domestic animal). Such creatures gain no benefit from fast healing.

Regeneration
All damage dealt to creatures with regeneration is vitality point damage, even in the case of critical hits. The creature automatically heals vitality point damage at a fixed rate per round, as given in the entry (for example, a troll has regeneration 5). A regenerating creature that runs out of vitality points becomes fatigued just as if it had taken wound point damage. Excess damage, however, does not reduce its wound points. Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, automatically deal wound damage to a regenerating creature, though it may attempt a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) to convert this to vitality damage, which it can regenerate normally. Otherwise, regeneration functions as described in the standard rules and in individual monster descriptions.

Sneak Attack
If a rogue can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively from her attack, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage.
The rogue's attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target. This extra damage is wound point damage and is 1d10 +1 (+ Int modifier) at 1st level, and the modifier increases by 1 as shown on Table: The Rogue. Should the rogue score a critical hit with a sneak attack, this extra damage is not multiplied.

[Xeviat]

So a high strength score and magic weapon will not boost the damage you deal to WP when you crit? What is the progression for the Rogue's sneak attack? Have you considered having the Fort save to resist dying at 0 WP be based on the damage dealt?

And something new that came up: Elementals, plants, and oozes are immune to critical hits and sneak attacks, but they have a constitution score. Should they have no VP and a ton of WP like undead and constructs, or are their WP just very protected?

[CYMRO]

So a high strength score and magic weapon will not boost the damage you deal to WP when you crit?

Since those are already applied to VP damage, I figured not.

What is the progression for the Rogue's sneak attack?

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/altvogge/ccrogue.html

Have you considered having the Fort save to resist dying at 0 WP be based on the damage dealt?

I had not considered that.  That should be the next point of discussion.

And something new that came up: Elementals, plants, and oozes are immune to critical hits and sneak attacks, but they have a constitution score. Should they have no VP and a ton of WP like undead and constructs, or are their WP just very protected?

First instinct is the latter...
maybe....

[Xeviat]

About elementals, plants, and oozes: they are alive, they do have a con score and thus they do have endurance. They can't be crited because they don't have vitals. So maybe they don't have WP!

I'll write up my alternate death and dying rules, which have worked very well with my WP/VP system; I'll have them up tomorrow night.

PS: Raelifin, why does your rogue sneak attack damage progression become irregular towards the end, causing it to end at +12 at 20th instead of +10 at 19th?