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what's the feeling of the New Star Trek?

Started by LordVreeg, May 07, 2009, 09:32:16 AM

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LordVreeg

May 07, 2009, 09:32:16 AM Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 09:33:26 AM by XXsiriusXX
I really avoid a lot of the pop-culture threads, since that is not normally why I am here.  I generally avoid movies, to be honest.  
I do try to post and help out on as many threads as I can, and I have a huge amount of respect for the average intellect and and discerning nature of the crew that ends up sticking around here.  Even our avatar of 4chan.
And while there are things I am dialed into, movies are not one of them.  SO I had no idea this was coming out, as I am no totalfanboyworshipper of this or any movie/tv phenomena.

I do, however, have a LONG history understanding the affect on culture that certain things have.  And I am in the camp that believes that despite the many shoertcomings of Roddenberry's idea, it has lodged into the long-term psyche of our people.  All odf us geeks grew up somewhat surrounded by this, watching various versions of imperfect people placed in difficult moral dilemma, and backed by a federation and philosophy that resonated with any forward-looking person.
So I hear that they are taking the cheap-ass way out in changing canon and creating an alternate timeline.  And I think this is somehwat bullshit.  Is there anyone else out there with strong feelings?
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Ishmayl-Retired

#1
May 07, 2009, 10:23:40 AM
LV,
I haven't seen the movie yet, and refuse to watch the leaked one, because I've very excited about this movie.  I will say, according to the spoiler-free reviews I have read, that from what I've heard about the changing canon, the time-travel thing is not so much "cheap-ass," as it is just "to-the-point."  A lot of serious ST fans (myself included) have felt the series to be in decline for quite some time now (though a lot of other serious fans find it perfectly acceptable how Enterprise and Voyager went).  With every new movie that has come out, they have "changed cannon" in some way - First Contact introduced basically a completely different borg than we had seen up to that point, which was a major foul cry from me (though I still enjoy the movie).  The entirety of Enterprise changed everything we know about Trek, including (but not limited to) the introduction of hundreds of new species that were never heard from again in chronologically later series.  

I think every now and then, things are in need of a major overhaul, and sometimes, that involves changing staples that we've all come to love.  From what I hear, the changes are not major time-line-altering changes, but rather, just enough to give them a bit more creative license so they can start anew, without having to worry about every detail of every green-skinned alien Kirk slept with in the original series.  

Personally, I'm very much looking forward to this movie, and I will go ahead and make the statement that any spoiling of this movie for me results in an automatic ban!











(I kid, I kid, but seriously, make sure you guys discuss this in spoilers once you've seen the movie, because I won't get to see it for another week)
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Elemental_Elf

#2
May 07, 2009, 12:55:50 PM
Honestly, Voyager killed the old Star Trek. The show took everything cool about Star Trek, stuffed it into a corner and played with the worst bits. The show had few redeeming qualities and needlessly hastened the end of the old canon.

Now some would say Enterprise was the show that killed Star Trek. And, if not for the 4th Season, I would agree with you. However, said season completely redeemed the show and allowed it to take its place amongst the top 4 Star Trek TV shows. It gathered up many of the loose threads lying around since the original Star Trek and answered them! I loved that season so much...

At any rate, from what I've read there wouldn't be a new Trek TV show or Movie without a reboot. For all intents and purposes Trek was dead. So, I'm quite happy to see it rise from the ashes into a major Hollywood movie. Further, JJ Abrams (who writes Lost) is directing and writing, so I'm sure at the very least the movie will be entertaining (something Nemesis forgot!).

Unfortunately I won't be able to see it until next week, after my finals...

Stargate525

#3
May 08, 2009, 01:51:24 AM
I just got back from it, and I have to say that it is beautifully done.

That said, as a Trekkie, I'm conflicted. I agree that a reboot was probably required, but that means throwing out DS9 and Next Gen, which I'm less-than-happy about. On the plus, Scotty's back, Bones is far more entertaining, and Jim's arrogance is completely justified.

I also disagree that the canon change was 'cheap-ass.' There is certainly precedent for it, as I don't think a single Trek series hasn't gone back and/or forward in time at one point. It's done somewhat logically, although the setup of exactly who does the time-travel is a bit wonky to me.

In all, I think that if trekkies go into it with an open mind, we'll be pleasantly surprised. The enterprise sure looks a whole hell of a lot better, that's for sure.
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Ra-Tiel

#4
May 08, 2009, 02:22:24 AM
From what I've read, as a SciFi movie it's very good but as a real Star Trek movie it fails horribly. Time travel is already overdone imho in Star Trek, and Star Trek XI just adds insult to injury.

There would have been a so much better way to revive the franchise than butcher it into a cheap action movie ripoff. According to Memory Alpha there's a new animated series in the work. So, why not take a step forward and set a new series in the 26th century on the Enterprise-J with a multi-cultured crew (klingon as chief of security, vulcan as science officer, romulan as tactical officer, etc.) and just the movie as the kickoff for the series?

This way they could have left all the old stuff (and problems) behind and make a new start without invalidating the complete known history. It's similar to what WotC did with the FR in 4e - only much much worse. :-/ Imagine how the fans would have reacted if WotC had sent Elminster and the Simbul back in time 20k years to change history. Nothing that was written about the FR would have ever happened. The Crown Wars, Drizzt, Cormyr - all that would have never happened or existed.

And exactly this is what Abrams has done to Star Trek - from now on, nothing that was ever produced has actually ever happened in the current universe. From now on, 5 series with over 700 episodes, countless books and novells, and ten movies can be stuffed right into the trash can. :(

Stargate525

#5
May 08, 2009, 03:51:04 AM
Have you seen the movie yet Ra? I don't think it was any worse than Nemesis, and at least the thing MOVED. Nemesis, and to a lesser extent Insurrection suffered from a massively slow plot. And I wouldn't discount the remainder of the series' yet as far as timeline goes; the timeline of star trek has suffered from many, many time travel incidents without much of a problem. The presence of STar Trek Online and the New animated series being set in the current timeline is also a positive sign that the majority of the new timeline remains unaffected, or at least only mildly changed by XI.

I'd also like to know what you think Starfleet could possibly be doing in the 26th century. They've defeated the borg, and by all accounts they have time-traveling ships, meaning any series set that far ahead is just going to turn into a badly done knock-off of Dr. Who.

By the by, did you READ the blurb about the animated series? It's doing exactly what you advocate regarding the time in which it's set.
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Ra-Tiel

#6
May 08, 2009, 05:57:26 AM
@Stargate525:



Regarding the movie and the ST timeline

No, I haven't seen the movie yet - and probably won't until in two or three days. I know that the time line in the ST universe has been raped to hell and back, which is why I'm severly disappointed by yet another time-travelling plot. :-/ Somehow it seems so horribly uncreative and just begs to be used as a lame excuse to throw the "canon" overboard.



Regarding what Starfleet could do in the 26th century

I think there are several aspects that could be covered:
* more diplomacy/intrique stuff (including character development and crew-internal problems like rivalries and friendships) and not only zapp-pew-fizz some aliens/machines/asteroids
* exploring unchartered regions of space (*the* thing ST was basically all about), encountering and analyzing strange stellar phenomena and life forms (in the Milky Way); considering the number of solar systems and stars in the Milky Way (200 to 400 billion) there's no way Starfleet could have astrographed and analyzed everything in it even by the 26th century
* further, there are still other galaxies to be explored (after all, afaik no Starfleet vessel has ever left Milky Way) - not mentioning stellar superstructures like the Sloan Great Wall which spans a distance larger than 1.3 billion lightyears and contains an unimaginable number of unique galaxies
* if you absolutely need a war/combat-driven story arc, you can elaborate the Sphere Builder plot or even make some ties to the Mirror Universe



Regarding the animated series

I know, and I suggested that scenario to be used as the setting for a ST movie instead of "let's got back to the beginning and make everything different from how it was before". The ST franchise is declining, there's no doubt about it. There are no fresh ideas, no new series. Just rehashing old stuff over and over again (like, time-travelling x(). A movie with a setup like I suggested could have been the perfect starting point for a new arc of the ST plot in the 26th century - far away all the Picards and Janeways who messed up things so horribly. ;) It could have restarted the franchise without invalidating the previous metaplot and background.

Stargate525

#7
May 08, 2009, 11:20:00 AM
The problem is that you're building on a huge, and by your admission flawed, foundation. Watch the movie, then tell me if you think they raped the canon. In my mind, it's entirely possible that all they did was tweak it a bit.
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beejazz

#8
May 09, 2009, 12:05:16 AM
Shiny lens flare everywhere. Hurts my head a little.

Sylar as Spock. Every bit as awesome as I had hoped*.

Whoever as Kirk. Not as awesome as Sylar as Spock, but who cares?

The Canon. Not familiar. Can't comment.

Black holes don't work that way. Not a huge problem.

Funny pan shots. Sometimes a little silly, but didn't detract. Sometimes a plus... gets across the idea that stuff is BIG.

*Spock as Ender (sometimes) is an added bonus.
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Llum

#10
May 09, 2009, 01:21:54 AM
Just seen it with my friend. Comments in the spoiler to avoid a ban!!!

[spoiler]
1. A surprising amount of underwear. Hawt green chick.
2. Screen writer had a ledge fetish, I think there are 3-4 scenes with people hanging off ledges.
3. Nero, the bad-guy. A tattoo'd PTSD-sufferent Romular miner is a horrible evil genius. A blackhole at the center of the planet is clearly much better then the surface of the planet....
4. Bad guys who act like complete idiots, have bad ship design and don't believe in drains.
5. Mining ship with tons of missles... clearly space pirates are a serious threat in 25XX.
6. Spock in love.... weird.

The worst for is the time travel. I *HATE* time travel. More then anything. The meeting of the Spocks made my soul cry.

That all being said. The reboot was needed and I'm fine, its not like Star Trek doesn't have enough problems with time travel anyway (see Voyager series finale). It's not a bad movie, but it has it flaws.

Also, black hole physics aren't that mysterious. I mean seriously? Blackhole+stuff = space lightning+time travel? Common!

Red matter while not... "real" was visually appealing, so I guess that's the reason.
[/spoiler]

Epic Meepo

#11
May 09, 2009, 03:05:44 PM
Quote from: V - L0Xhttp://www.theonion.com/content/video/trekkies_bash_new_star_trek_film
If you hadn't posted that link, I would have. Best movie review ever!
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XXsiriusXX

#12
May 09, 2009, 04:23:54 PM
Quote from: V - L0Xhttp://www.theonion.com/content/video/trekkies_bash_new_star_trek_film

Very funny and very true!

[spoiler]
While not the biggest fan of the changes they have made to the time line, and yes I know the prefaced it by saying that it was in an alternate time line, they were still interesting.

was any one else annoyed by Chekov accent, yes I know he is Russian and they were trying to play that up, but every time he spoke I was just really annoyed.

Bones and Scotty were by far my favorite characters. They had some of the best lines in the whole movie.

also I was a little disappointed that I did not see a single double axe handle used in any of the fights scenes. it is like a staple of original star trek fights.
[/spoiler]

brainface

#13
May 10, 2009, 03:46:07 AM
It was pretty much a lot of fun. It was just a little goofy at times--not a lot, but it wasn't "Terminator/Alien serious" by any means. But honestly that's kinda in the theme of Star Trek in my mind anyway. Honestly, it's the first time i've been to the movie theatre in a while and not been disappointed at least a little bit.

Whoever wrote/directed this movie also watched a LOT of star trek. I mean that would make sense, but I felt the need to point that out anyways.
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Biohazard

#14
May 10, 2009, 06:10:25 PM
I loved it. I've never been a huge Trekkie but this movie is seriously making me consider becoming one... although I can't stand Shatner. My dad liked it too, and he was a big Star Trek fan in the first few series. The way it was executed was a lot more inviting than what I've seen from previous incarnations has been - it seemed to stray just far enough from a scientific/philosophical theory (and/or "What if") exhibition while keeping that feeling intact to make it the kind of adaptation someone completely new to ST could enjoy.
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