Low Tech Science Fiction Brainstorm

[O Senhor Leetz]

So I'd thought I'd make a thread of this for some feedback, ideas, and what not. I'm also looking for partners in crime if you want in.

This setting would fall under low-fantasy for sure. Humans would be the only race, but regional variations, etc., would provide variation - for example, people from the city of Patha would see themselves as Pathese, never as "humans". I want cultures that are extremely rich, detailed, and non-cliched. Although I hate creating areas that are re-hashed areas of Earth, overall the setting would have more of a Middle-Eastern, Mediterranean, Levant, North African vibe.

In addition to cultures, religions, politics, etc. would all be rendered very realistically (in the sense of how humans act, not in the sense that I want them mirrored from real-world examples, even though influences are bound to occur.)

I'm still on the fence about magic, but it will be rare as can be, most people may not even believe in it. It would be ritual and study heavy, things like necromancy, seances, demonology, stuff like that.

And as for the flora and fauna, I think it would be neat to recreate ecosystems from more or less the ground up using non-Earth animals. No horses or cows for instance. The new creatures and plants would be different, but normal in the world.

As for things to think of to get the feel, works like Dune, ASOIAF, history, Wheel of Time - stuff like that.

I know this is really a broad thing to throw out. Questions are always welcome. Also, would it help if I whipped up some setting information to better get the feel across?

UPDATE : As I mentioned down farther, the main conflicts and theme of this setting would be surrounding the questions and answers of "what is our purpose as humans?"

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

The first and most important thing to get down, and also to tell us about, is what you want the setting to do, say, or just generally express.  At least I'd find it very helpful.  Right now you could be talking about any number of variety of worlds, it doesn't help narrow down ideas.

[O Senhor Leetz]

that's a good. right now, to me at least, would be a both an exercise in world building and imagination (obviously), but also an exercise on the human conditions of religion, tradition, superstition, and culture. I suppose the main source of conflict would be both within those mentioned conditions, but also the conflict that revolves around the question of "what is our purpose as the only sentient species?" - which will be answered differently by everyone.

That turned out very Nietzsche-esque, but I hope that answers that question.

[O Senhor Leetz]

OK, here is a quick snippet of a possible city in the setting.



Sitting upon the warm, shallow waters of the Mouth of Asal, the city of Patha is the southern most of the Seven Cities and the gateway to the fabled riches and timeless kingdoms across the Great Ocean. Glimmering domes of bronze shine beneath slender minarets covered in ornate tiling. High above the city proper, sits the Palace of Shadowed Splendors, from where the scheming merchant-princes of the city reign.

The harbor of Patha is perhaps the busiest of all the Seven Cities. A fluttering sea of canvas sails in reds, blues, yellows, and whites, the dhows and baghlahs holding in their bellies the fiery wines of Iskanda, sea-rice and salted fish from the Verdant East, slaves and weapons of rippled-steel from Galaghah, jade and feathers from across the Great Ocean, and the softest silks and cotton cloth from sweltering Dishi. Countless slaves work the docks, hauling cargo to and fro ships, cogs in the plutocratic schemes of the merchant princes.

As a people, the Pathese are lean and lithe, their skin bronzed under the hot southern sun. Men and women alike shave their heads and favor light and opaque tunics of white, yellow, or blue linen. Bronze jewelry is favored above all other, with simple, polished bands and anklets common. Of the people of the Seven Cities, the Pathese are considered the most beautiful, but also to be somewhat haughty and aloof.

To the Pathese, power, success, and wealth are the most important values. To them, the quest for material and aesthetic gain is the most inherent and defining trait of what it is to be human. They are not a particularly religious people, and tend to focus on the experiences and luxuries this world has to offer.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

UPDATE: As I mentioned down farther, the main conflicts and theme of this setting would be surrounding the questions and answers of "what is our purpose as humans?"

"what is our purpose as the only sentient species?" - which will be answered differently by everyone.

Well you've certainly set yourself up a big question.  I suppose the low-fantasy, low-magic does help keep the focus.  I'm guessing from your example sources you're not looking for cinematic action but you want this place as real as possible without being real history.  What do the rebuilt ecosystems add?  Are they intended to make players/readers analyze the use of animal symbols that are normally taken for granted by removing the familiar ones we know?

[O Senhor Leetz]

Well not really, I just always thought it was "cheating" to make some totally new world, but then use horses and cows and pigs. I think it adds an enormous amount of depth and flavor to a setting to have believable and new creatures, food-stuffs, etc.  

And as for the question, I think it would be interesting to have a large degree of development in culture, philosophy, even technology. But I was thinking about eliminating pack or work animals, as Meso-America lacked, as well as creating a world - in the sense of a planet - that was inherently low in heavy metals, fossil fuels, and mostly everything else that allowed our Earth to advance industrially and mechanically.

Having a realistic world with thousands of years of history, but lacking the resources that we commonly link to technology, would lead to some extremely interesting and unique things - I think. Things like monotheistic, dogmatic religions, well-developed trade, advanced arts and culture, understandings of things like algebra, meta-physics, deep philosophy, astronomy (I think that's the right word), gravity, etc. would all be completely plausible and existent in the setting. However, things like industrialization, wide-spread machines, advanced farming based on animal and machine labor, tech like fire-arms or explosives, development of fast communication, and things like that would not be possible or existent.

So on one hand, you have human beings who have advanced as far, if not farther, than we have in some areas, while on the other hand, the world they live in would be stagnated at certain level of development due to the lack of resources.

[Ghostman]

Well not really, I just always thought it was "cheating" to make some totally new world, but then use horses and cows and pigs. I think it adds an enormous amount of depth and flavor to a setting to have believable and new creatures, food-stuffs, etc.  

So, having a totally new world with pigs in it is "cheating" because pigs exist in the real world, but having humans in a new world is not cheating? I don't find that very logical.

It's all well and good to come up with new fantastic critters and perhaps discard some real ones. But unless you replace all the species, you'll still end up with a world that is populated, at best, by a mix of common and made-up plants & animals. And there are thousands of known species of just mammals alone...

Having a realistic world with thousands of years of history, but lacking the resources that we commonly link to technology, would lead to some extremely interesting and unique things - I think. Things like monotheistic, dogmatic religions, well-developed trade, advanced arts and culture, understandings of things like algebra, meta-physics, deep philosophy, astronomy (I think that's the right word), gravity, etc. would all be completely plausible and existent in the setting. However, things like industrialization, wide-spread machines, advanced farming based on animal and machine labor, tech like fire-arms or explosives, development of fast communication, and things like that would not be possible or existent.

Cool idea. Any reason why gunpowder wouldn't be discovered at some point though? You'd need sufficient materials and metallurgy to construct firearms of corse, but gunpowder on it's own could still be used as an explosive.

[O Senhor Leetz]

Your first point is a good one. I guess I was trying to get at the fact that most settings focus on the higher aspects of the campaign - like magic, monsters, gods, etc. - without putting a bit of work towards the more mundane, which in my opinion at least, can add a lot more flavor and umph to a setting than a new god can. But that's really besides the point right now I suppose.

And yeah, I don't see why gunpowder really couldn't exist. The three main components - sulfur, potassium nitrate, and charcoal are easy enough to get a hold of. I just have to figure out reasons of why it isn't wide spread, I was thinking it would be the domain of alchemists and "wizards."

Taboo could explain it, so could a monopoly on the trade and manufacture of gunpowder. Sulfur could also be a rare resource, and if I wanted to push it, so could lumber, and hence charcoal to an extent. Or maybe it stagnated in military usefulness. Gunpowder was in part a response to counter heavily armored troops, so in theory, if heavy armor never developed, gunpowder would not be needed so badly. Fast, light, mobile troops could easily outflank gunpowder based troops, rendering them somewhat superfluous.

But I suppose even if they did develop gunpowder technology, it would stay in the area of bronze-based cannons and barrels, as iron and hence steel would be far to rare and valuable to use on something as unpredictable as a gun barrel.

[O Senhor Leetz]

Also, the technology level would be roughly that of the Islamic Golden Age. Actually, a lot of everything - culture, technology, sciences - will be heavily influenced by that Golden Age.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Well that is at least an intriguing angle.  So it would be Islamic Golden Age with bronze technology instead of steel?  Are the copper and tin (especially tin) used in bronze going to be more common than they were in the real world?

[O Senhor Leetz]

I would actually like to avoid using metals almost entirely, and instead getting creative about how other materials would have developed along different lines, things like glass, ceramics, bone, cloth, or other minerals.

And it would be very, very vaguely Islamic Golden Age, that's the period in our history as close as I can relate what I'm shooting for with this one. It would be influenced by this period as much as, say, the novel Dune was.

[Llum]

Ceramics, at least in general, are composite materials and are relatively advanced. (well discounting glass and clay).

[O Senhor Leetz]

well yeah I know, but I was just throwing things out there.

But there also has to be some suspension of disbelief for things that could have happened. Maybe a ceramic-like material that was constructed chemically rather than through pressure.

This would be an advanced setting, just not in how we think of advanced. Technology could have taken drastically different routes throughout our history, I just think it would be fun to explore these.

[Mason]

I like it.
 I vote for no wheels. Like the maya.

[Drizztrocks]

May I just say:
I love it.

  I think it would be extremelly intriging to see how things would have turned out without certain materials. This is an entirely new angle. I am interested on what you're ideas were for animals and plants, and I would be more then happy to help with those ideas, if you need any help. So yes, I would want to be one of your partners in crime, specifically in fleshing out smaller stuff like flora and fauna. In short: really cool, i'm definatly going to keep up with this. :D