Visceral Baroque: A System For the Cadaverous Earth

[Superfluous Crow]

GURPS is, as the abbreviation states, a generic universal system, so I'm sure it is possible to play it with a more visceral style if need be. I just feel, personally, that it is an ill fit from what I've seen.
It's like with tRoS, no matter how much you modify it, it will always have that medieval/classical feel to it that doesn't suit  more fantastic settings. A system can flavor a game just as much as a setting can in some situations.  

[LordVreeg]

Good Lord, yes.
It's a paintbrush, a creative tool, and with the wrong tool, you can't make what you want to.

[Superfluous Crow]

Heh, i thought that comment would be something you'd like Vreeg. :)

[beejazz]

Beejaz, amazing post about the different facets of system design.  I'll be rereading it frequently qhile I strie to find or craft a system for CE.

Thanks. I'm sure I'm missing some stuff. Anyway, I'm interested to see what sort of system you go for. Personally, I'd advise against point buy, at least the way GURPS, Tri-Stat, and M&M do it. Same for classes that level. I mean, either could be made to work, but you'd have to be really careful about it.

[Superfluous Crow]

Why would you argue against point buy?

[beejazz]

Why would you argue against point buy?

Existing systems are way too malleable, which comes with its own set of problems (there can be multiple ways to build the same power/ability, each of which comes with a different cost and effect). Then there's powergaming by sinking everything into one facet of your character, powergaming by getting a bunch of extra points at a reduced cost for gear (a bunch of systems have this, and will even let you take further drawbacks on it so you can abuse it further), doing the same for summoning, milking every last inconsequential disadvantage, and a bunch of other stuff. Character creation can be really time consuming, and it really sucks to spend an hour or two building a character and then get shot in the face on the first die roll (and extreme example, but high lethality means you go through lots of characters). Again, not all point buy systems are like this, but starting with one of the existing biggies can get you here.

A partial point buy, the way many skill systems are, and the way most system handles money would be fine. Everything's 1 for 1 with most skill systems and fixed cost for money. So if you applied that to other areas, fixed costs for fixed abilities (no levels or power mods or other bells and whistles) could be fine. And a 1 for 1 skill buy (so you don't have those hangnail points at the end) might work too.

[Superfluous Crow]

Oh, so when you say point buy you mean a skill-less system where everything depends on the buying of advantages?
Really, it shouldn't be too hard to fix the problems you mention. Put a limit on the number of drawbacks you can take (UnMet doesn't let you get more than 10 points for example), dividing things into categories (so one point buy system for stats, one for professions, one for skills, one for advantages/disadvantages) to prevent focused gaming, and powergaming doesn't really pay off in a high lethality game (even if you have maximum toughness you still die if you get a knife in your throat).
Also, you can install failsafes to keep death at a minimum at the cost of something else; UnMet is build in such a way that if you mess up you can get a reroll by increasing your corruption, and you can even escape death in certain situations by increasing your corruption. It should be said that you will eventually lose your character to said corruption. CE could benefit from a somewhat similar system of some kind. A rotting of character in terms with the theme of the setting.  

[LD]

From Left Field.

Alternative Systems.
Likely not at all suitable.

1. Music
The scales provide about 28 options between black and white keys. Chords correspond to combat tactics and skill maneouvers. The players play the music to determine success or failure. The better sounding combination of chords (the chords to be played are predetermined in part by player attributes) is deemed the winner in skill contests.
ACEG (7x2)

2. Colors
The CMYK colour wheel is used to determine statistics and information. Each colour corresponds to certain spheres of influence, from Purple's social skills to Green's bargaining skills, to Red's combat skills.

A random number generator is used each turn to determine where on the CMYK scale each skill test ends up. As people level up, they can gain more power in moving a random rolled number in a certain direction or to move it into a certain sphere of colour.

--
Both systems obviously need more development.

Good luck.

[LD]

3. Losing card System

Each player starts with 52 playing cards, each of which has certain abilities. as their characters age, they lose cards and abilities, but they also gain the opportunity to add "flags" to the cards that they keep.

Each flag adds extra abilities and skills to the remaining cards.

Great accomplishments can also add to the amount of cards someone has.

Flags can be reused although the used cards are burned- not to be used again until a level up.

Once discarded for example at level 1, you may never again use the queen of hearts. but at level 2 you may use it again as replenished... and you may flag it.

[LD]

4. Jackson Pollock

2 overlaid images-

One is an inkblot rorschach test; the other is a list of statistics and skills. each player draws their own rorscach test at hte beginning of hte game and then overlays it over the skills list. That determines their skills.

As the game progresses, each player gains new pictures which they overlay on a statistics chart. As they level up, their chart gains new holes which they can use to choose new options when they are fighting a battle or doing a skill test.

[LD]

5. Minesweeper/Shell Game

Drop dice into cans. Shake. The amount of dice is determined by skill in that particular skill. Dice are then turned over and shown.

The GM then shuffles the dice and hides them under cans.

The player must follow the dice and select the best dice that they want to have as their roll.

[LD]

6. The Whirligig

Place a Spinning Top on a grid. where it ends it spin is the determination of the outcome.

When gaining levels, the player can spin multiple tops or can gain the ability to touch the top and make it end in a certain place. Or they can spin on a more favorable grid with better outcomes for the player's determination

======LOSING CARD SYSTEM IN ACTION
Symbolizing the pumping, the grinding, the leveling, the losing, the dying, the suffering, the wilting, the decaying Cadaverous Earth- the characters do not so much grow as they fall with the losing card system.

Everyone starts out with the fruits of fate- a certain number of cards which they are dealt. the cards symbolize strength in the four attributes- Mind (Diamonds), Body (Spades), Spirit (Clubs), Heart (Hearts).

The characters are special- they have more fate than others- each player holds about 10 cards in their hands. (selected or randomized).

On Day 1

Ulemna the gunslinger meets a crazed leechkin in a darkened alley. Ulemna can barely see and get a shot off.

His "life card" has a flag on it for "low visibility" and a flag on it for "fear", which both affect his rolls.

When he shoots, the location of shots are determined as in Battletech/Mechwarrior. Each creature has a bodyskin with locations for shots.

The head may have 2 dots, the arms 3 each, the torso 10. damage transfers in if a bodypart is blown off.

Ulema rolls to shoot. He rolls a 15. The leechkin rolls a 12 to dodge, then plays a fate card- a Spade for strength to resist the bullet. He rolls a 15 and the spade is in play- the bullet will do 15 less damage than otherwise.

The 15 is negatively affected by both flags- roll 1d4-1 for each flag's affect. Flag 1 affects him (1), flag 2 affects (0). so ulema still hits.

Ulema then rolls for the location of his shot (since his 15 beat the 12). He rolls a 6- the leechkin's head.

Now he rolls for damage- 1d6. Which is less than the 15 so the leechkin resists the shot (!)

[Superfluous Crow]

... I don't know what to say to that LC :P
Although yes, one shouldn't feel constrained to common forms of task resolution. If you wanted to you could play yahtzee to determine your skill checks. The only thing it really requires is some form of randomizer.

Based on your minesweeper, i might have a slightly more serious proposal:
Your skill+attribute adds up to a number of dice which you then put in a bag together with a number of black dice equal to your depravity/bad luck points. Then you pick a die from the bag. If it is white you roll it and use the result OR pick a new die and reroll. If you get a black die you fail. Obviously, the more often you attempt to reroll, the greater are the chances of you hitting upon a bad luck die and thus failing. I can imagine that would be interesting in-game. Although there is a pretty good chance of happening upon black dice unless the pool is reasonably large. Probably works best with d10.

[LD]

CC- that's a fairly neat idea-especially for magic in Steerpike's world. It could perhaps determine backfires of failed magic, etc. But it would also work nicely for combat- and would punish greed and would help symbolize decay- it seems it would suit Steerpike's aesthetic. (also please see the post above (into which I edited an example of a system in action).

Despite their bizarreness in some aspects, all the suggested systems are serious, but not necessarily seriously appropriate for Steerpike. They would certainly suit some niche games.

[FREAKIN' AWESOME HORSE]

Steerpike, if you do decide to create a new system I'd be more than happy to help out. It could be actively discussed through the chat or AIM/MSN or whatnot.