[Somebody Explain, Please] Steampunk - What the heck is up with that, people?

[Lmns Crn]

Lemme tell you about a thing that has been bothering me for quite a few days. There is a word being used, and I don't know what it means. I'm not convinced anybody really knows what it means. It is... the S word. You know.

I think it is safe to say that a lot of people, on this site and elsewhere, say the word "steampunk" with pretty much the same inflection that they use when they say "herpes." Let's explore this a bit, because I'm intrigued.

I've had my work labeled as steampunk several times, and I don't really get it. Sure, where others use magic as a stand-in for technology in fantasy settings, I just use technology as technology, and have advanced it past the pseudo-medieval norms we all tend to use as a baseline. A respected confidant warned me years ago, on the subject of technology in the Jade Stage, that I'd better not let the advances extend all the way to trains, because that'd turn my setting into a steampunk one. Leaving aside for a moment the question of whether a single item can drastically change the mood and genre of a world in such an unquestionable way (hint: I'm not so sure it can), the implicit concern was that "steampunk" is code for "automatically terrible." Is that really how it works? I mean, the other day in IRC, a well-intentioned CBGian, making conversation, remarked to me: I've heard of your setting; that's the steampunk one, right? Several people agreed that, yes, that's correct. Nevermind, of course, that nothing in the Jade Stage is actually powered by steam.

I'm pretty sure I can't be the only one who is getting these sorts of reactions and becoming confused, right?

I figure there's got to be more to the issue of whether a world identifies as "steampunk" beyond "is there a steam engine anywhere in it [Y/N]?" I mean, I was sort of under the impression that the word "steampunk" connotes a sort of dystopian world that looks like England in the 1800s, where the heroes are often heroes by virtue of their innovation and intellect, with "it's powered by steam!" used to explain away the presence of anachronistic technologies like submarines and space ships and clockwork humanoid robots (and also, everything has superfluous gears stuck onto it, in case you forgot that all the fancy technology is achieved by old-fashioned means).

I mean, I'm reading Sherlock Holmes lately. In one story, Holmes and Watson took a train. Does that mean Sherlock Holmes is steampunk? (If it makes a difference, it's totally set in 1890s England, and Watson has a revolver.)

If not, then does the inclusion of a train (or some other legitimate, real-world example of steam technology) immediately classify a conworld as steampunk? Why or why not? Is there any one element (thematic, an object of technology, a discrete aesthetic choice, or anything else) that singlehandedly renders a setting steampunk?

Folks, I really feel like I missed the memo, here. I guess when you boil it down, what I'm really wanting to know includes:

What do you associate with the word "steampunk?"

Is a steampunk aesthetic something you think should be avoided?

What characteristics make steampunk steampunk? Is a certain type of technology sufficient? Are certain themes and storytelling elements sufficient? Are certain other aesthetic elements sufficient? Or does it take a mix of some of the above?

Are there any settings on the CBG which are steampunk? Quasi-steampunk? Contain a few steampunk-like elements? What makes them that way?

I am somewhat lost on this subject, and I think it's about time we discussed it as a group.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

What do you associate with the word "steampunk?"

Steam, soot everywhere, dull metal, brown or black clothes, and a lot of technology.

Is a steampunk aesthetic something you think should be avoided?

No.

What characteristics make steampunk steampunk? Is a certain type of technology sufficient? Are certain themes and storytelling elements sufficient? Are certain other aesthetic elements sufficient? Or does it take a mix of some of the above?

I think steampunk consists of one thing: having more 19th century-style technology than the 19th century had.  Emulating an Earth culture is totally optional.

[Llum]

Is a steampunk aesthetic something you think should be avoided?

Are there any settings on the CBG which are steampunk? Quasi-steampunk? Contain a few steampunk-like elements? What makes them that way?[/quote]

Nomadic's Mare Eternus would be the prime example IMO/
The Empire of Steam in Divergence has some elements of steampunk (its steam powered, etc)

[Stargate525]

Personally, when I think steampunk I think Brass and gleaming metal that's far too ornate for what the thing really has to do. Adventure, optimism, imperialism (good God imperialism) are all aspects as I see it. The sooty, dystopian stuff I usually associate with its close cousin, dieselpunk.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Try here: http://theclockworkcentury.com/?p=165

And though I had called JS Steampunk for its Victorian-esk feel, it's probably not since you don't have the steam or clockwork (and you might need at least one).

[Hibou]

The term is a pretty poorly used one, yes. I suppose the word itself is meant to give the image of the aforementioned types of settings - lots of clockwork machinery and stuff powered by steam, big blimps, monocles and top hats, possibly a wild west feel as well.

Most of my responses have already been given, but:

Are there any settings on the CBG which are steampunk? Quasi-steampunk? Contain a few steampunk-like elements? What makes them that way?

Right now I'm not sure if I'd label any of them steampunk. In the past there have definitely been a large number of short projects (maybe some of Salacious_Angel's stuff in particular), done by a fairly large percentage of the CBG members at that general time, that could have been considered steampunk. Thing is they don't tend to last long.

The definition is a weird one; the way I see it you can say "I'm going to build a steampunk setting" and you've already got a predetermined set of elements you need to include to make this statement true, whereas other themes might be much more lenient, like horror, dystopian, epic warfare, high fantasy, etc.

[Lmns Crn]

And though I had called JS Steampunk for its Victorian-esk feel, it's probably not since you don't have the steam or clockwork (and you might need at least one).

Well, I do have some clockworks, but I don't think they're excessive. No clockwork robots, or flying machines, or any other truly egregious business.

[limetom]

Is a steampunk aesthetic something you think should be avoided?
Not at all, if done pleasingly.

up on Youtube for the time being[/url], if you'd like to check it out (and you really should).

Are there any settings on the CBG which are steampunk? Quasi-steampunk? Contain a few steampunk-like elements? What makes them that way?

Dunno.  Unfortunately, I'm a bad kid and haven't been reading much lately.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I don't know that I'd say steampunk is limited. It's a burgeoning subgenre. It's got a lot of possibility, but it kind of has to have a certain feel. But then so does epic fantasy, or most other subgenres.

If you have clockworks, maybe it is steampunk. I don't think they have to be "egregious," but maybe that's just me. I suppose it depends on the attitude of the setting.

[Nomadic]

What do you associate with the word "steampunk?"
When I think of steampunk I think of adventure and opportunity mixed into a package of brass, steam (obviously), and anachronisms explained away with steam technology.

Is a steampunk aesthetic something you think should be avoided?
Of course not. If done right the aesthetic can give a setting a very unique feel to it.

What characteristics make steampunk steampunk? Is a certain type of technology sufficient? Are certain themes and storytelling elements sufficient? Are certain other aesthetic elements sufficient? Or does it take a mix of some of the above?
Generally I would consider anything that uses steam technology to create anachronistic results. Having trains in the setting isn't enough but having tanks with steam engines, spaceships of brass and cogs, etc... thats what falls within steampunk.

Are there any settings on the CBG which are steampunk? Quasi-steampunk? Contain a few steampunk-like elements? What makes them that way?
My Mare Eternus setting has some strong steampunk elements to it. Enough that you could classify it as such. However I tend to stick it under magitech instead.

[Polycarp]

I will repost what I said when this question was asked on the chat:

The problem is largely that when you use one aesthetic only and take it to purposefully preposterous levels you risk turning coolness and novelty into self-parody.

per se[/i], but many steampunk designers, artists, and other assorted enthusiasts that I've seen tend to try to do too much with too little material.  Aggrandizing your source material until it is utterly preposterous is never a good idea if you are trying for something other than comedy.  The ubiquitousness of this on the internet is probably why the word "steampunk" is often met with derisive laughter.

The only real problem I have with steampunk specifically is the same problem I have with all "punk based genres" - that is, that the name has been horribly abused.  "Punk" as a genre suffix came about from cyberpunk, in which "punk" denoted a darker, grittier, more dystopian future world, as opposed to other views of a "cyber" future in which technology makes everyone happy and fulfilled.  Somehow, folks began to strap "punk" to everything they could think of, but without actually including the specific atmosphere denoted by that.  Now, if your über-Victorian world of steam is actually that grim, go ahead and use "steampunk" - but as far as I'm concerned, it's got to be punk before it can be steampunk.

[Jharviss]

Defintion
The best definition of steampunk I've heard is this: Steampunk is a setting where the combustion engine has been invented but - prior to electricity or fossil fuels being discovered - the world enters the information age.  I can't recall where the definition comes from, but it seems pretty top notch.  Technology advances using steam as its prime mover, as Llum says.

Polycarp is quite right about the sense of "punk," and how it's fallen out.  Steampunk is supposed to be more punk, though I don't see it in the dark and gritty way that Polycarp mentioned.  I see the punk aspect in the more adventurous, human-driven exploits.  It would be dark, but not in the way that cyberpunk would push it toward.  

There's a lot of steampunk costumes out there now-a-days, and nothing gets me more irritated than seeing a victorian dress with goggles.  That is not steampunk - that's victorian, with goggles.  Nonetheless, you'll see a lot of that.  Steampunk has largely become a way for people to wear Victorian clothing.  They forget the punk aspect as well.

Clockpunk
Luminous, Jade Stage sounds like it has a couple instances of clockpunk, which is not steampunk and really doesn't deserve the "punk" aspect of clockpunk.  You just don't have the typical technology of most medieval fantasy settings.  Nothing wrong with that!

Trains
It's funny that you bring up trains, because when my team decided that we were going to go fully steampunk with Tephra (and yes, Tephra is a steampunk setting), adding trains was one of our debates.  Tephra has always been steampunk-esque, but we more heavily use magnetech, or magnet-based technology.  We're now throwing in some more aspects of steampunk, and it's meshing well.  Regardless, trains were a big turning point.

Using Steampunk
Steampunk is actually a very rigid term used loosely.  To constitute real steampunk, you have to have a variety of things in play.  Tephra is definitely steampunk, and we've worked to make sure those aspects are there.  The one thing in normal steampunk that we avoid is having anything that rings of 1800s England.  Tephra is very culturally mixed, and using England as a baseline just sounds boring.

Is "Steampunk" code for "automatically terrible."
By God, I hope not!

[Steerpike]

Good discussion, steampunk has been somehow bastardized into meaning "anachronistic technology."

There seems to be some consensus concerning the tech level - it must be steampowered or it forms its own perhaps related subgenre (clockpunk or whatnot, which I personally find more appealing for some reason), and it must have exceeded the historical tech of its heydey, potentially even resulting in an information age.

The "punk" descriptor remains nebulous.  While the tech aspect seems to be drawn prinicipally from the industrial revolution, where does the punk aspect arise?  The cultural attitudes of the late twentieth century?  Or some different, less historically grounded theme?

It seems to me to be invoking a subculture rather than a tone.  Traditionally, the labels "cyberpunk" or "steampunk" have been applied to works of literature rather than worlds: the "punk" aspect is derived from the social standing of the main characters.  Unfortunately, punk subculture is a difficult thing to define, having long transcended its musical roots.  A subculture that transgresses social norms might be the best (if broadest) definition -  low-life (the original definition of cybperunk was high-tech meets low-life).  This could translate into a dystopian setting, but might not necessarily.

Now, let's say we have a world that has sophisticated steam technology or clockwork technology but doesn't focus on a trasngressive subculture, thus losing the "punk" label.  What should we call this world?  Scientific Romance?  Iron Kingdoms went with "Full Metal Fantasy," although arguably they could qualify for some of the social aspects of the steampunk label (this image might be the visual definition of steampunk).

EDIT: you know what there aren't a lot of? "Dieselpunk" worlds.  Maybe Gloria counts.

[LD]

Hmm... Dieselpunk. There's Crimson Skies, Sky Captain, possibly Indiana Jones (arguably more pulp). Thank you for the shout-out regarding Gloria... It might fall under there given the Shimmer Trigrams and the "oil". I will have to think about that a bit.

[LD]

Jharviss-

Tephra has always been steampunk-esque, but we more heavily use magnetech, or magnet-based technology.

That sounds VERY interesting. I'd like to see how you pull that off.

Did you also do a bit with batteries... Westinghouse, Tesla, Edison, Volta, Ampere sorts of things?

From what I recall, electricity's charge is partially due to magnetic fields and electron-spin... But my memory is a bit fuzzy.