[Forum Philosophy] #14 - Tone

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Week 14 (Nov 7, 2009)
[note=Got an Topic Idea?]Send me a PM. Remember, we are discussing any topic relating to world design (but not system design), so fire away.[/note]
[ic=Philosophy Archive]
Week 1 - The Cost of Magic
Week 2 - Villains
Week 3 - Genre Conventions
Week 4 - Design Method
Week 5 - Characters
Week 6 - Theme
Week 7 - PCs in the World
Week 8 -  Politics
Week 9 - Government
Week 10 - Alignment
Week 11 - Magic Items
Week 12 - Philosophy
Week 13 - Races & Ethnicity
Week 14 - Tone
[/ic]

Tone
Many designers feel the tone of a setting is one of its most important aspects. Some might say tone is inexorably tied to theme, others that they are two different beasts. What are your thoughts on tone? Can tone be set by the designer, or does it come as much from the GM and players?

What kind of tone do you prefer in creating a setting? What about in reading? In playing? If they're not the same, why might that be? Do you enjoy lighter or darker tones?

How do you convey the tone?

[Steerpike]

I'm sure that a large part of tone does come from the GM and players, but it's certainly possible to create part of the tone in the design of a setting.  It's no secret that I'm a fan of the "dark" tone, or at very least the "weird." I like my fantasy to awe and delight me but also to alienate and even disturb me, and I find a lot of fantasy does the unfortunate opposite - coddles, cossets, comforts.

[Elemental_Elf]

Tone is innately tied to a setting but, a good setting should at least have a few 'opt outs' for players and DMs to explore other aspects of the setting. Take 40k for example, the entire universe is heavily Grim Dark in nature but even that setting allows you an opt out in the form of Rogue Traders (i.e. swashbuckling space merchants).

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Many designers feel the tone of a setting is one of its most important aspects. Some might say tone is inexorably tied to theme, others that they are two different beasts. What are your thoughts on tone? Can tone be set by the designer, or does it come as much from the GM and players?

If the theme is the right sort and set the right way there's almost no way for it to be played differently.  A dark setting that's stacked against heroism or cross-loaded terrible people, places, and happenings is going to be nearly impossible for comedy heroes than a setting that might be kind of dark but doesn't push the darkness as hard.

Yes, GMs and players can try to alter tone, but in my opinion if this is accomplished by altering elements of a setting than one is really playing in a setting with a different set tone.

What kind of tone do you prefer in creating a setting? What about in reading? In playing? If they're not the same, why might that be? Do you enjoy lighter or darker tones?

I think everyone who's been on this site longer than a year knows what I like.  And even then I could write paragraphs on why that haven't been seen yet.  But I'm not up for beating that dead, putrid, maggot-ridden horse.
Summary answer: Light-hearted, easier-living, smooth (vs. gritty) as the answer for all the first three questions.  "Lighter" for the last one.

[Steerpike]

[blockquote=Silvercat Moonpaw]A dark setting that's stacked against heroism or cross-loaded terrible people, places, and happenings is going to be nearly impossible for comedy heroes[/blockquote]Perhaps impossible for comedy heroes - but I'd say not for comedy altogether.  Warhammer 40K, the most notoriously Grim-Dark world out there (I mean, it invented the term!), is in places (I think) pretty hilarious - the Orks in particular.  There's a particular brand of black-as-hell, over the top, gallows humor that the world has going on in spots... kinda like how Sin City or Inglourious Basterdz are pretty damn dark, but as the same time very funny.  Horror and humor don't have to be antithetical.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

(Damn it, people: you need a post delete function.)

[Nomadic]

I'm with steerpike on this one. You can have absolutely have a black as night tone and still have humor fitting in naturally. It just tends to be darker humor to fit the darker tone. The orks are a perfect example of this. You may not consider it funny but that doesn't stop it from being humor, just humorous to you.

Many designers feel the tone of a setting is one of its most important aspects. Some might say tone is inexorably tied to theme, others that they are two different beasts. What are your thoughts on tone? Can tone be set by the designer, or does it come as much from the GM and players?

What kind of tone do you prefer in creating a setting? What about in reading? In playing? If they're not the same, why might that be? Do you enjoy lighter or darker tones?

How do you convey the tone?

Ultimately tone falls to the GM to convey, a designer creates the selection for GMs to pull from in terms of tone flavor, but in the end it is the GM that pulls a particular one from the shelf and runs it (either vanilla or with their own modified tone).

As for tone, by now the perceptive have probably picked up that I am a fan of adventure/exploration (the middle road between smooth and light and dark and gritty). I like awe-inspiring places and people with a knack for doing the insane, tone wise I like my bloody, hopeless fights to have a small silver lining. My tone preference for reading on the other hand is none, I will read anything (but that's a tale for another day).

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Most times I favor dark tone in my settings, my reading, and many of my favorite games.

On the other hand, I like a little variety now and then. And for D&D, usually a middle ground is better. I don't think it's the best system for truly dark.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

There's a thread on ENWorld about DMs liking dark-gritty and players the opposite.  http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/266887-why-do-dms-like-dark-gritty-worlds-players-opposite.html  Somehow if that were the case I think I'd have half a shot of finding one I like as the market would have to cater to players' tastes at least once and a while.

It is something I've wondered about, though: Why does the darker and grittier stuff predominate?  I suppose the answer might be easy: there's stuff to do and/or the PCs can be heroes.  Somehow I'm not sure that's the whole of it: I don't buy that people can just shove off the dark emotions the tone must bring out.  I'm guessing they want to feel that way or they'd have to take breaks to play something less dark, but why?

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Why does the darker and grittier stuff predominate?

I don't think it does, though everything goes through cycles, of course. Tastes change and change again with the times. People get tired of bright and want gritty, people get tired of gritty and want bright.

But D&D remains the most popular TTRPG, and I'd hardly call it dark. It's high fantasy, and it may not be light-hearted, but the base game is sure closer to that the dark end. And my experience has been that D&D does not do well if you move it too far towards the dark end--I was not impressed with Ravenloft in play.

[Elemental_Elf]

And my experience has been that D&D does not do well if you move it too far towards the dark end

This much I do not understand. Darkness has no need of rules, simply a persistent DM and a grim world in which to adventure.

[Ghostman]

For fantasy, I prefer the tone to be something akin to Martin's ASoIaF or Howard's Hyborian Age - but I can certainly enjoy stories both darker and lighter than these.

Whether or not the tone of a setting must be followed very closely, really depends on the setting itself. Some worlds have strongly defined tone while others may be more flexible. Even within a single story one could find great contrasts in tone; moments of intense despondence and moments of joyous relief. Actually the Lord of the Rings has this alternation to a surprising degree.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Why does the darker and grittier stuff predominate?

Wish they'd get tired of the gritty faster.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

EE, as I said, I can only speak of my experience. I've play with great GMs and terrible ones.

The fact you're playing a game automatically creates a different atmosphere from reading a novel. Whatever system you use will affect that experience. The choices and style of the GM will also affect the experience. But I don't think they're independent of each other.

@Ghostman, I usually agree with those two preferences (and your later thoughts on tone).

@SM, I'd say we may already be in that phase. Your perception of "dark" may be too broad.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

@SM, I'd say we may already be in that phase. Your perception of "dark" may be too broad.

That bodes even worse.  Any examples?