"high" fantasy

[Elemental_Elf]

Eragon (if anyone's seen that).

I love that movie because it makes me laugh so much! It's like Lord of the Star Wars... Or Star Ring... Or Star of the Ring... Hehe  x.  :D

I believe the Good v. Evil aspect arises because so much of High Fantasy follows Joseph Campbell's concepts of A Hero's Journey, which typically entails a common boy finding out he's special and that he has a destiny to go on an epic journey to do defeat some terrible evil and save the kingdom/continent/world. All too often this leads to a black and white moral outlook.

Ah, the monomyth.  It is a very High Fantasy-ish idea.  Not essential, but VERY characteristic of that kind of setting.  They represent one of those cases where you can find each in the presence of the other, but they are really meant for each other.  They feed into each other very well, even if it evokes a sense of cliche.  

Unlike Survivorman's concept, High Fantasy includes more than a created world; the concept of fate/destiny and magic are all integral to the genre. The Monomyth eats up those added aspects, to the point where it becomes quite difficult to think of a High Fantasy setting that doesn't follow the Hero's Journey. Having said that, I can think of quite a few settings/books/movies that follow the monomyth and are not High Fantasy. Thus the High Fantasy genre acts as a remora to the much broader concept of the Heroe's Journey.

[Drizztrocks]

Eragon IS very funny. When I saw it, I renamed every character after Star Wars characters. It was so easy, every single one fit. And Eragon, Dragon, one letter difference, really?

[Elemental_Elf]

Eragon IS very funny. When I saw it, I renamed every character after Star Wars characters. It was so easy, every single one fit. And Eragon, Dragon, one letter difference, really?

Don't forget the obvious phonetic similarity between Aragorn and Eragon.

[Nomadic]

Eragon IS very funny. When I saw it, I renamed every character after Star Wars characters. It was so easy, every single one fit. And Eragon, Dragon, one letter difference, really?

Don't forget the obvious phonetic similarity between Aragorn and Eragon.

It's also an anagram for rage on... oddly appropriate...

[Elemental_Elf]

Eragon IS very funny. When I saw it, I renamed every character after Star Wars characters. It was so easy, every single one fit. And Eragon, Dragon, one letter difference, really?

Don't forget the obvious phonetic similarity between Aragorn and Eragon.

It's also an anagram for rage on... oddly appropriate...

And yet the kid was very indecisive and pretty much relied on other people telling him what to do (be that Obi-Wan, Leia, Han or the Boer King).

[Drizztrocks]

Eragon IS very funny. When I saw it, I renamed every character after Star Wars characters. It was so easy, every single one fit. And Eragon, Dragon, one letter difference, really?

Don't forget the obvious phonetic similarity between Aragorn and Eragon.

 Now that is the part that is truly annoying.

[Drizztrocks]

Speaking of the similarities between Star Wars and Eragon, wouldn't Star Wars be considered High Fantasy? It completely fits my definition, and fits everybody elses really well also. For example, it is epic in scope with lots of magical stuff (the force is always referred to and all over the place) and destiny is a huge aspect of it. It also has a very black and white view of the good vs evil most of the time, and has dozens of different fantastical races.

 It does have many sci-fiish elements, but I think that the fantasy kind of overrules them.

[Elemental_Elf]

Speaking of the similarities between Star Wars and Eragon, wouldn't Star Wars be considered High Fantasy? It completely fits my definition, and fits everybody elses really well also. For example, it is epic in scope with lots of magical stuff (the force is always referred to and all over the place) and destiny is a huge aspect of it. It also has a very black and white view of the good vs evil most of the time, and has dozens of different fantastical races.

 It does have many sci-fiish elements, but I think that the fantasy kind of overrules them.

I believe Star Wars is (or should be) classified as Sci-Fantasy.

[Lmns Crn]

Speaking of the similarities between Star Wars and Eragon, wouldn't Star Wars be considered High Fantasy? It completely fits my definition, and fits everybody elses really well also. For example, it is epic in scope with lots of magical stuff (the force is always referred to and all over the place) and destiny is a huge aspect of it. It also has a very black and white view of the good vs evil most of the time, and has dozens of different fantastical races.

 It does have many sci-fiish elements, but I think that the fantasy kind of overrules them.

I got thoroughly thrashed for my genre classification of A New Hope, but it's interesting that we bring up many of the same points.

[Elemental_Elf]

Speaking of the similarities between Star Wars and Eragon, wouldn't Star Wars be considered High Fantasy? It completely fits my definition, and fits everybody elses really well also. For example, it is epic in scope with lots of magical stuff (the force is always referred to and all over the place) and destiny is a huge aspect of it. It also has a very black and white view of the good vs evil most of the time, and has dozens of different fantastical races.

 It does have many sci-fiish elements, but I think that the fantasy kind of overrules them.

I got thoroughly thrashed for my genre classification of A New Hope, but it's interesting that we bring up many of the same points.

The problem is that Sci-Fi, Fantasy and Horror are all just names we give to what we perceive are common threads in Speculative Fiction. Is a setting where a Space Bus crash lands on a remote forest island filled with hostile natives that manipulate unique electro-magnetic fluctuations to preform what some might call magical effects, Sci-Fi or Fantasy? Is a setting where Humans have colonized a desert moon and wage war with Laser Swords while sitting atop massive dragon-like cyborg creatures, Sci-Fi or Fantasy? Is a setting where Humans explore the galaxy through a mystical portal and fight with beings who believe themselves to be Egyptian Gods with alien technology so advanced, laymen would call it magic, Sci-Fi or Fantasy?

In the end the lines are blurred because there are no lines, they're completely artificial, imposed by humans who have an insatiable urge to define and categorize things.

[Ghostman]

I would define science fiction as fiction that is founded firmly on a scientific world view (appropriate to the time of it's writing). Sadly, this is not a commonly accepted definition, and many works that are labeled as "sci-fi" don't fit it.

The definition of fantasy should not make any assumptions about technology and stages of civilization. Space fantasy should be just as much a part of the fantasy genre as medieval fantasy. The defining characteristic of all fantasy fiction should be the presense of something deemed supernatural at the time of writing (making it incompatible with a scientific world view). This is admittedly problematic, since traditionally "fantastic" elements may in fact have entirely non-supernatural interpretations.

For example, some mythical creatures such as unicorns may be commonly thought of as fantastic - but are they really? Considering an interpretation where a unicorn is nothing more than a mammal that is anatomically like a horse except having a single horn, a lion-like tail and cloven hoofs, does it actually break the laws of physics? Is it biologically unfeasible?

Unicorns did not evolve on Earth, but would it be impossible for such animals to evolve on a different planet? If someone was to write about a planet where unicorns do exist, and keep it 100% scientifically plausible (no matter how unlikely), would it still have to be considered fantasy? According to my definition it couldn't be fantasy, since no supernatural elements -> non-fantasy.

[LordVreeg]

SH,
you are very right about the LotR point...Destiny and the tying together of threads is certainly present.
.  
DR, I have to say the presence of our own reality in a setting does little to make it high or low fantasy, at least in my estimation.  
However, Star Wars as High Fantasy certainly is no problem here.  Definitions are also viewpoints, and when we look at Star Wars theough the Lens of 'High Fantasy', it certainly matches many criterion.
Except I still think that the 'Good vs Evil' thing is incidental to the definition.

Nomadic, we do need a CBG dictionary to guide the poor sheep outside our walls of erudition.

[Nomadic]

I would agree that star wars is sci-fantasy (space sci-fi + high fantasy), taking aspects from both but being neither fully in one or the other. Mainly because both science fiction and fantasy have over time evolved into two super-categories separate from each other (yet having points where they intersect). What ghostman defines as sci-fi in general is generally held to be the definition of one subgenre of it known as hard science fiction (Arthur C. Clarke's work being a good example). At one time sci-fi was considered a sub-genre of fantasy, but imho I don't think you can honestly say that it is anymore.

[DungeonMaster]

High Fantasy= Epic quests, fantastical creatures, powerful foes and wondrous locations of splendor/decay. It should have the sense of destiny behind it all.

Throw in a couple of damsels in distress for starters and then rescue the king from a evil plot while preparing to fight off the hordes of demons entering through a dimensional rift that threatens to destroy the world....

Something like that

[Nomadic]

High Fantasy= Epic quests, fantastical creatures, powerful foes and wondrous locations of splendor/decay. It should have the sense of destiny behind it all.

Throw in a couple of damsels in distress for starters and then rescue the king from a evil plot while preparing to fight off the hordes of demons entering through a dimensional rift that threatens to destroy the world....

Something like that

Don't forget the heroes seemingly useless but ultimately vital (and possibly comedic) sidekick.