Doctor Who Discussion (All Forms, Spin-Off Series Welcome)

[Elemental_Elf]

If anything, the romantic interest bit should make River having a gun more of a problem.

But it makes sense in terms of how they meet each other. They're going in opposite directions - River gets older as the doctor gets younger and the Doctor gets older as River gets younger. The Doctor meets badass River over and over again, thus by the time he meets a River that has never met the Doctor, he has grown to accept her as being a badass. He can't change her personality because that would cause a paradox.

Oh yeah, I'm sure we won't see the Dream Lord again (the dickless traitor! -- if you haven't seen Your Highness, do it now) but Moffat does love to explore the Doctor's darker side so I'm sure that we'll see more of that. Hopefully it just doesn't come in totally illogical form again, like Rory's speech in Vampires of Venice.

Yeah illogic is the worst! Still, I hope the Dream Lord shows up again and has a fun episode, maybe with a bit more depth than his previous showing.

I'm still not a big fan of River. It's hard to pull off being a total badass and being aware of it without coming across as a prick. The Doctor does it but both River and Jack rub me the wrong way, though Jack was greatly improved in Torchwood.

Jack and River don't annoy me, they just handle their badassery in different ways. The Doctor does it by showing off his brilliance, Jack did it with swagger and River does it with charm. Charm is the hardest because it can easily be misinterpreted as overconfidence, which is annoying.

[Ninja D!]

The Dream Lord was formed by a hallucination, the source of which was thrown into space.

Yeah, that doesn't seem like charm to me.

[Ninja D!]

Honestly, I liked River Song the best in her first episode. She didn't come off as annoying to me in that one. It's another case of Doctor Who's (and Steven Moffat's) revising history, though. In that episode there was no indication that she was a time traveler without the Doctor. It is even suggested that she isn't. After all, she says that she in an archaeologist, the Doctor says he is a time traveler, and she doesn't mention that she is also one of those. That says something to me.

Moffat also changed the weeping angels a bit. At least, that's how it seems. There is another possibility that Grand Moff fanboys are probably more willing to accept. It's possible that in those older episodes (Blink for the weeping angels, Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead for River Song) those elements were intended to be what they are now but were altered by someone other than Steven Moffat. After all, he wrote them but he was not Executive Producer at the time, Russell T Davies was. I believe Moffat was being groomed for the role at the time but he wouldn't have had all that much power yet. This idea is a bit of a stretch for what was done with the weeping angels, though. Notice that they didn't try to send anyone back in time when Matt Smith's Doctor encountered them. Maybe someone has the DVDs of that season and could confirm if there are commentaries? Or maybe someone has just heard? I haven't really researched it.

I watched a couple of commentaries from last season this morning. I can't believe that I didn't notice this before; Both of the female (at least, I assume that they are female based on their biology being similar to that of humans) Silurians with speaking parts last season (from The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood) were played by the same person. She wore different makeup for the different roles and spoke a little differently but once I knew it seemed obvious. Even when they're together, near the end of second episode of the two, they don't show both of them at the same time. Did anyone catch that before?

HEY LOOK, I CHANGED THE TITLE OF THE THREAD! I know there are at least a couple of Torchwood fans about here. I love that show. I wanted to see an American version made but I don't want that to replace the original. There is stuff on the BBC version of that show that would never make it to air, even on a cable network, here in the States.

I was wondering if we should take an official stance on spoilers in this thread. Any thoughts? I think that anything should be fair game once it has aired, especially now that episodes are aired in the UK and the US in the same week (though one day apart) but if others feel differently, I'll listen. I'd also like this thread to remain open to broader discussion even though it will probably usually be focused on the most recent episode and things related to it.

[Elemental_Elf]

Honestly, I liked River Song the best in her first episode. She didn't come off as annoying to me in that one. It's another case of Doctor Who's (and Steven Moffat's) revising history, though. In that episode there was no indication that she was a time traveler without the Doctor. It is even suggested that she isn't. After all, she says that she in an archaeologist, the Doctor says he is a time traveler, and she doesn't mention that she is also one of those. That says something to me.

One word - Spoilers. You can explain any and all inconsistencies with River's various appearances as spoilers. Having re-watched the first bit of River's first appearance, she was being a bit cheeky when she said she was an Archaeologist (the Doctor said he disliked Archaeologists because he's a time traveler, River, being very cavalier and obviously flirtatious, stated she her self as an Archaeologist). River didn't need to introduce herself as a time traveler because she believed the Doctor already knew her. It was only after she tried to compare diaries that River realized the Doctor had never met her.

I watched a couple of commentaries from last season this morning. I can't believe that I didn't notice this before; Both of the female (at least, I assume that they are female based on their biology being similar to that of humans) Silurians with speaking parts last season (from The Hungry Earth and Cold Blood) were played by the same person. She wore different makeup for the different roles and spoke a little differently but once I knew it seemed obvious. Even when they're together, near the end of second episode of the two, they don't show both of them at the same time. Did anyone catch that before?

I listened to a podcast back then that mentioned the fact. If it weren't for them, I wouldn't have noticed.

I was wondering if we should take an official stance on spoilers in this thread. Any thoughts? I think that anything should be fair game once it has aired, especially now that episodes are aired in the UK and the US in the same week (though one day apart) but if others feel differently, I'll listen. I'd also like this thread to remain open to broader discussion even though it will probably usually be focused on the most recent episode and things related to it.

So long as you post after the 10 Pacific time on Saturdays and we only discuss what has aired (not what will air) then I don't see a problem lifting the spoiler ban.

[Ninja D!]

I couldn't remember if we had actually stated there was a ban on spoilers or not. It doesn't matter much to me, personally. The joke will always be better when delivered by the Doctor and the plot isn't set in stone (time travel, duh).

[Elemental_Elf]

Did anyone see last week's episode? I thought it was great, classic Mat Smith.

And the ending -  so very sad. I feel horrible for River. It does, however, explain quite a bit.

[Ninja D!]

I forgot to post here. Last weeks episode ranked right near The Unicorn and The Wasp among my favorites.

For the record, I think The Unicorn and The Wasp is the worst episode of the new series and possibly up there for the 33+ seasons of the franchise.

Of course, even in the worst of episodes Smith plays a brilliant Doctor. The bit with the video of the aliens you forget in the blank spot of the moon landing was VERY clever. I'm also glad that they stated for sure that that was the same kind of ship from the Lodger, not just lazy set design.

The feel of the last couple of episodes has also said to me that they are reaching for a different audience and I don't like that. Doctor Who is like pizza, though, even the very worst is still pretty good when compared to other things.

The did not like the end bit with River and the Doctor. I was still holding out weak hope that they wouldn't go there...but they did. I'm glad that they at least adressed the gun thing. He said something about her shooting things and, "I know I shouldn't like that but I kinda do."

The best part of the episode, by far, was:
"This person you want to marry...black?"
"Yes..." long pause "HE is."
"I think the moon is far enough for now."

[Ninja D!]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the whole Silence thing. It seems clear that they didn't know what the Silence would actually end up being last season. That or we are still missing a major part of the puzzle that isn't obviously not there.

The Silence being a race makes, "SILENCE WILL FALL" seem like a bad play on words or cheesey foreshadowing (spoiler: the Doctor wins), though that doesn't make perfect sense. Again, we could be misssing something that we don't know we're missing.

I feels oddly like that story is done but I hope it isn't. That would be painfully anticlimatic.

Though they played with their power nin a pretty cheesey way, I think that the Silence were great monsters and perfect for Doctor Who. While that made those episodes even more disappointing, it still makes me hope we haven't seen the last of them.

I'm also still dreading the "game changing cliffhanger."

[Elemental_Elf]

We haven't seen the last of the Silence, there was on on the hill in the first episode. Plus, I'm sure they aren't going to take the Doctor's revolution sitting down.

In addition to that, the Silence are connected to the girl, who is in some way connected to Amy.

Speaking of that girl,   [spoiler=Theories about the girl]there's four possibilities, that I can see, for who she is - She's the Doctor, she's the love child of Amy and the Doctor, she's the love child of River and the Doctor or she is the Doctor's Daughter (from the episode "The Doctor's Daughter").

The first is iffy at best. We did see the Doctor die and there was a Silence dude on the hill, he could have helped her regenerate and gone back in time... Seems implausible, especially considering the fact that the Doctor has never regenerated into anything except a full grown man. River and the Doctor's love child is also implausible given that River and the Doctor are going in opposite directions, thus River would already know about the girl (and thus probably would have acted differently during the episodes). Amy and the Doctor's love child is a good bet given her feelings towards the doctor but its still "out there." So, to me, the only plausible explanation, based on the information we have at hand, is that she is the Doctor's daughter. However, very few threads seem to be being pulled from the pre-Matt Smith continuity, so there's a fair chance this girl is something entirely new. [/spoiler]

As for today's episode [spoiler=today's episode] MEEEEEEEEEH! I'm sure there will be an element from this story that's carried through to the finale but... Man, this episode was not nearly as good as the last two. It obviously had a low budget (most of which was spent on the boat, I'm sure) and the plot was fairly boring (and once again showcased a common plot hole of people from pre-electronic times instantly recognizing technology for what it is and accepting it as wondrously mundane  (seriously, if it were real, the captain probably would have killed the doctor right off the bat, he does use "witchcraft" (i.e. technology) after all)).

/end rant  

I hope the next episode has a larger budget and a more expansive and interesting story. The season is 2 for 3, which is not bad at all. [/spoiler]

[Steerpike]

What about [spoiler]the 'Schrodinger's foetus' Amy is carrying?  Do you think it's possibly the past version of the girl we see later?  A different character altogether?  My memory of last season is a little hazy, but isn't Rory actually some kind of android?  Could he even impregnate Amy??[/spoiler]

On the subject of the Silence, they seem a little close to the Weeping Angels to me, with the whole "keep looking at them" thing.  Still, it's better than an endless sequence of Daleks/Cybermen.

EDIT: Oh, and on the subject of America, do people think it was stereotyped and overblown a bit, with the whole gun-toting paranoia thing?  On the upside, BADGER!

[Ninja D!]

Hey, Steerpike. I was hoping you'd make an appearance as the first couple of episodes seemed like ones you would enjoy.

We don't know for sure that the little girl was in that space suit at the beginning. I'm guessing that it wasn't. I also think that the girl is something new. If they were going to bring the Doctor's Daughter in again, they would have done it by now...and I really wish that they had. David Tenant is marrying that actress, by the way.

I think last night's episode was the best of the season so far. And that note  :-p Doctor Who has always been full of stuff like the technology acceptance...it always will be.

I had forgotten the Silence on the hill.

What about the woman with the eye patch? That is at least one element from this week's episode that will show up in the finale.

I agree with Steerpike that the America stuff was too much. Their entire image of this country must come from watching our movies and mostly westerns.

[Elemental_Elf]

The Silence and the Weeping Angels may both be "keep your eye on them" kind of enemies but what they do when you're not looking is completely different.

I wonder if the girl could grow up to be the woman with the eye patch in the portal/opening/thingy. She's shown up twice now, i fully expect to see her over and over again.

[Steerpike]

One thing I am really, really happy about is that they're actually playing with time travel and using the TARDIS within episodes rather than just as a way of conveying the characters to a given episode's location.  There was some fun time-bending stuff in Tennant's time but less than in Smith's.

[Ninja D!]

What do the Weeping Angels really do when you're not looking at them? It seems to have changed. Both creatures came from the mind of Moffat so maybe he isn't that creative.

[Steerpike]

Don't they move at preternatural speed?  What aspect changed?