Avayevnon: The New Discussion Thread

[Seraph]

So, a quick thought that I'd like to get an opinion on:

What if the Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Changelings were all the same species, and "Race" was a more technically correct term?  "Human" might become a term to describe them all. The race currently described as "human" would need to be renamed.

[Ghostman]

So, a quick thought that I'd like to get an opinion on:

What if the Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Changelings were all the same species, and "Race" was a more technically correct term?

Seems like a fair idea to me.

"Human" might become a term to describe them all. The race currently described as "human" would need to be renamed.

This seems a bit awkward though. Maybe you could instead use "Man" as the catch-all term and "Hu-Man" as the name of the specific race.

[Tangential]

It seems like a half-measure if you're trying compress them into one species. Just name them regionally or by country. For the record I think this measure would work well with your Issachar fluff.

Other options to encompass the group are humen, sapients, mortals,  or the ephemerals.

[Seraph]

So, a quick thought that I'd like to get an opinion on:

What if the Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, and Changelings were all the same species, and "Race" was a more technically correct term?

Seems like a fair idea to me.

"Human" might become a term to describe them all. The race currently described as "human" would need to be renamed.

This seems a bit awkward though. Maybe you could instead use "Man" as the catch-all term and "Hu-Man" as the name of the specific race.

The problem is that since WE are human, then there will always be a perceived "Us" and "Them" as long as "human" is one race/species choices.  The idea was to make all the races "human" in a species sense, so that they are ALL "Us."  In real life there is already a wide variety of body types, shapes, sizes, colors, so it doesn't seem that far off to say that in a fantasy world, there is a race of humans who are short, broad, wear their beards long and thick, and tend to be obsessed with shiny things; one that is even smaller, absent-minded, but very interested in learning; and one that is stubborn and focused on leaving a legacy.

It seems like a half-measure if you're trying compress them into one species. Just name them regionally or by country. For the record I think this measure would work well with your Issachar fluff.

Other options to encompass the group are humen, sapients, mortals,  or the ephemerals.

Naming groups regionally has merit, but does not solve the problem of different races co-mingling in the same region.

[Kaptn'Lath]

I am in the same boat. Maybe make Humans, and Elves Men, and Gnomes and Changlings as Folk? You do mention Changlings are really being half-human half-elf tho.

[Seraph]

Yes, this is true.  Elves are not currently a player race, and don't spend much time on this plane.  I tend to think of them as being more apart from the mortals--since they technically ARE immortal in a sense.  They reincarnate ceaselessly, and can remember their past lives to varying extents.  I think Changelings therefore would not quite count as "humans" under the model I have proposed, technically.

This leaves humans, dwarves, and gnomes.  I think these three could conceivably be considered the same species.  Perhaps the species shouldn't be called humans either.  Maybethe whole setting should be free from our species bias.

If I decided to make elves a race of humans, then changelings could fall under this category no problem.  I don't REALLY think I want to do that though.  I've put enough into my elves being separate from humanity that it wouldn't feel right.  

[Seraph]

[note]This is an alternate take on the gods of the Ennead.  Some remain relatively unchanged, while others are tweaked or completely different.  There is an emphasis on cycles, with the 3 Goddesses as lunar phases, and the 4 Gods as stages of life and death, as well as the four humors.  They would probably gain elemental and directional associations as well.

I'm interested in what people think of this new model.[/note] The Goddess '"The Goddess represents the Cycles of life, and that which is eternal.  Her symbol is the Moon, and her three forms correspond to its waxing, full, and waning cycles.

Lúghra:  The Maiden.  Her symbol is the crescent of the new moon.  She is the goddess of spring.  She is fiery, youthful, and powerful.  Simultaneously virginal and sexual, she rules poetry, music, and creativity, and dances with Enkíodus.  As the divine child, she represents a state of primal innocence, magick, and possibility.  Lúghra is considered to rule over waters and tides.  Though one of three personae of the Goddess, it is Lúghra whose name has come to refer to the Goddess whole.

Lamáistiú:  The Mother.  The full moon is her symbol.  Depicted with a pregnant belly, with animals suckling from her breasts, and wearing a crown of wheat, she represents abundance and fertility.  She is Mother Earth.  She provides for her children, but must also be where they reside in death.  She always takes her children back into herself.  Therefore is she sometimes depicted as eating her children.

Moireán: The Crone.  She is represented by the crescent of the waning moon.  She is the goddess of fate, warfare, contests, and death.  She is keeper of the Tablet of Destiny, which records the fate of all living things.  She is sometimes known as 'The Grey Lady,' or 'The Phantom Queen.'  In myths, to court her is to carry her favor in battle, ensuring victory.  Because of this, when pagans of the Ennead go to war, they leaders bed a priestess who is said to be possessed of the spirit of Moireán.  To see the Grey Lady is often an omen of death, especially if you find her washing your clothes.


The God'"The God represents the vital force; the spark of life.  He is powerful yet fleeting.  His symbol is the sun, but he comes in four forms.  These forms exist concurrently and consecutively.  They are all part of the same entity, yet they have simultaneous life and separate consciousness.

Enkíodus: The Youth.  He is the Sunrise.  God of desire and ecstasy, he is lord of the dance, he is joyful and sensuous.  He is the most primal and animal of the aspects of the god.  His five horns represent the senses and virility.  He is the father of animals humans alike.

Asterion:  The Father.  The aspect of Asterion is the King of the living and possessor of the wealth and abundance of Lamáistiú.  He possesses the all seeing eye of the Sun at high noon, and is often depicted with it hovering above his head.  He is ruler and protector of all life, and his gaze can turn to gold whatever it looks upon.

Pazrael: The Sage.  Pazrael is the bringer of knowledge, stealing the Book of Secrets from Nódens and giving it to mankind.  As the Sunset, however, he also represents decline, and rules storms, plagues, and disease.  Pazrael represents the principle of all order dissolving into Entropy.  He upsets the established order of Asterion, and foments revolution.  He loves ideas, gossip, and change.  He preserves the greater balance by laying low the high.  

Nódens: The Ancestor.  Nódens represents the night.  He is King of the Dead and guardian of the Sojourn.  He rules sleep, dreams, and visions, and he is the keeper of secrets.  It is he who brings dreams, hidden by his cloak of shadows, and he who keeps all knowledge in his Book of Secrets.  He creates the visionary city of Temaire in the land of the dead, and is lord of all that might be, for as the master of dreams, he rules imagination and invention.

[ic]Lúghra unites with Enkíodus
Asterion is born from Lamáistiú
By Moireán's omen, Pazrael brings decay,
And Nódens returns to Lamáistiú's embrace.
[ooc]There are myths that elaborate more on the cycles of the gods, and I will likely get to more of that later.

Another myth, which involves Lúghra's grief for the death of the god, results in her tears flooding the earth, accounting for the formation of the Weeping Sea.  It is thought that anytime it rains, it is the result of her grieving.  This has led to a ritual for rain-calling.  In times of drought, pagans will re-enact the death of the God to remind her of the event and stir her tears.[/ooc] [/ic]

[Ghostman]

That's pretty good. Any ideas on how eclipses fit into the picture?

[Seraph]

There could be something about the dance of Lughra and Enkiodus, when one steps between us and the other.  That's what immediately comes to mind.  I might think of something better later.

[Seraph]

Adamantine
[ooc]It's been a part of my Avayevnon mythos for some time that Soleism was first spread across the world by the Adam, a tribe of humans who came out of the south.  After coming across a seemingly random reference to adamantine, it occurred to me that to link the names of the race and the name of the metal made a neat etymological link, and suggests a reason for their spread across the land: superior weaponry.  [/ooc]
Adamantine is a rare metal scarcely, if ever, used in modern practices.  This is due entirely to its scarcity, for it is supremely hard, and highly reflective, if crafted smoothly.  It reflects enough light as to be almost luminous itself.  It suspected to have mystical qualities, and legend tells that it is this material, a gift from the angels, that allowed the Adam to spread across the face of Avayevnon and establish their empire, the remnant of which is seen in Bizhentluus.  Since the Adam originally came from the dark continent south of Fer Khemer, which remains largely unexplored, it is unknown whether the metal exists in larger quantities, but in the Northern continent, it is found almost exclusively in meteorites, which would hardly refute the claims of its celestial origin.

Adamantine is highly reflective, and seems to amplify the light it reflects.  If a character is wearing armor or a shield of adamantine while in low-light conditions, starlight or moonlight causes the adamantine to shine with the light intesity of a candle.  A candle causes it to shine with the intensity of a torch, and so forth.  In full sunlight, the light shining from it interferes with the vision of those looking at it.  Armor and shields of adamantine automatically gobble 1d from all attacks made against the wearer, this is in addition to any dice gobbled by blocking with a shield, or by dodging.  

Elves and Fae of all sorts seem to have a strong aversion to the material, and suffer a -1d penalty to all skills used with an item of such material.  They also suffer a +1 Killing Damage when struck with weapons made of or coated in adamantine.

[Xathan]

First of all:

Like a cheap harlot after a long night binging in the tavern, it turns out the gods don't look too pretty in the morning.

Farm is a fun word. Farming farmers farming farmers farm farmers farming farmers. Weee.[/note]If they can't safely farm, how do people get food?

More questions and thoughts when I get my head working right. Overall...this is awesome. I liked original Avayenon, but this is a vast improvement over the original.

[Seraph]

What role does magic play in this setting? How are users of non-divine power (if they even exist) viewed - are they relics of a bygone era, are they dangerous meddlers in that which man was not meant to meddle, or are they just another type of craftsmen?

The Orators[/i], (Who in D&D would be clerics) are considered to be practically living saints, as they are the holy men with tangible power in the dominant faith.  In Avayevnon, the majority of the clergy do not actually have any significant powers that could be called magickal.  They may be very knowledgeable, pious, and charismatic, but nothing supernatural or paranormal.

Witches are priestesses of the Goddess Lughra (and her other names and forms).  They are pagans, and therefore are not welcome in the cities.  For them to enter would put their lives at risk.  If anyone knew, it would be likely that the Church of Sol would send an Inquisitor to deal with the threat.  As there are several small pagan settlements and nomadic groups in the wilder parts of the world, witches sometimes have role as community leaders and wise women.  Otherwise they tend to be loners living at the fringes of society.

The places of the above are nearly universally true across Avayevnon.  At least amongst the Soleist majority.  Since there are many small heretical groups with different beliefs, and maybe even secret pagans scattered throughout, there are always those who feel differently.

Neither of the above is quite what would be called arcane magick, though.  I have not decided on what term to use for the wizard/sorcerer type, yet, but in addition to that, there are alchemists and artificers.  I can give a bit of a regional breakdown as to the acceptability of these types:

Bizhentluss: Wizards not acceptable at all.  Alchemist and artificers are on very thin ice.  Especially alchemists.
Caervenfor: Caervenfor is old fashioned.  Not really big fans of the new-fangled artifice and alchemy.  One of the few places you're more likely to find a wizard.
Empire of Issachar: Alchemists and Artificers welcome.  Wizards must be registered, but are generally accepted as long as they don't cause trouble.
Feloria: Commercial Alchemists accepted, philosophical alchemists are not.  Artificers on thin ice.  Wizards unacceptable.
Verlan:  Alchemists and Artificers welcome.  Wizards are unwanted.
Ithegra: It's . . . Complicated.  All are welcome . . . except they aren't.  I'll try to expand on that later.

The other places I haven't really detailed as much, so I won't go into them yet.

Artificers are the most craftsmenlike of the magicky folk.  In a sense, they have to have a wizardly streak, a pagan streak, and a bit of alchemist in them too, because their focus is not on ornate spells, nor is it as uniformly on transformative ointments, but on fusing magick with engineering.

Alchemists come in two flavors--the ones who believe in the philosophy of alchemy, and the ones who are in it for the money.  The former are highly religious, in whatever faith they belong too, and seek knowledge of the interactions of elements and chemicals as a means of transforming themselves into their highest form.  The later play with their chemistry sets and make things the population finds useful or fun.

Wizards are of the Faustian type.  They study, but tend to have a familiar spirit which does much of the work on their behalf.  Their magick is longwinded and highly ritualized.  There are a few slap-dash things that can be done quickly, but a wizard isn't on his own that much use in a fight.  Wizards take a long time to do things that are impressive, but then, when they do do something, it can be very good, or very very bad.

If all people fear outdoors, are there are lot of underground passages within cities, even ones that have glass to let in sunlight? If airship travel is the primary means of travel, how self sufficient do communities have to be? With open air being so deadly, how to farmers farm enough to farm without dying by the scores per farm? If they can't safely farm, how do people get food?

More questions and thoughts when I get my head working right. Overall...this is awesome. I liked original Avayenon, but this is a vast improvement over the original.

Yes to the first, though I'd not thought of glass to let in sunlight.  In some cases, though, they probably would.  The thing about open air, is that it's not that the Miasma hangs right outside the city walls at all times, but it COULD come at ANY time.  And it DOES, periodically.  If you're willing to risk it coming in suddenly, you can try going outside.  People still farm, they just tend to be a bit more privatized in their farming.  More farmers on smaller plots of land.  Easier to get inside if you see it coming.

[Tangential]

Wizards could be magi, or maybe Artists ala Shakespear?  

[Seraph]

Wizards could be magi, or maybe Artists ala Shakespear?  

While Shakespeare references would not be out of place, "artist" is a bit too ambiguous, I think. Mage, Magus, Magister, Magician, Occultist, and Philosopher are all terms I have considered.  Hermetic or Hermeticist might be appropriate.  Goetian?  Since it's not a class in the D&D sense, there's technically no reason why they might not all be terms that fly around.  And I suppose "Wizard" and "Sorcerer" technically off the table in that case.

[Seraph]

[ic=Athos (Capital of Ithegra)]Athos holds the title of the Ancient World's center of learning.  That learning has become its most controversial subject in the past century, as more and more the city-state struggles between the national religion of Sôleism, the re-emergent Enneadist Paganism, and the emergence of Magia, a gnostic form of hermetic magick attempting to unite the ways and understanding of the ancient pagans with the worldview of Soleism.  The debate is heated, and everyone is pulling strings, and pulling triggers.  Political killings in Athos are at the highest they've been in recent memory.  For any citizen to carry a weapon has been banned, due to the likelihood that any disagreement could descend into violence, and any violence could spark an uprising and lead to civil war.

Those who hold to the Unity of Knowledge'"a school of thought where all wisdom is considered valid'"push to legalize the teaching of Magickal theory, and the study of arcane texts like Ars Occultia, and Ars Goetia.  The Church, however, currently forbids it, and those who push too hard are in danger of being subject to heresy charges under the Inquisition.  Since scholars are so keen to learn about magick, and the church is determined to keep magick out, a number of sorcerers have been brought in under the protection of the nobility, who can keep them safe, and pay off the necessary authorities.  The popular views on magick are mixed, though most of the populace sides with the church, deeming the whole matter as sinful.

Athos today toes the line of honoring its pagan heritage while celebrating its Soleism.  It boasts being a bastion of the faith, and being the seat of the Adamite Empire, but now that there is so much interest in the classical ways, the inhabitants have been rediscovering the history of the pagans.  It is now politically impossible in a practical sense to remove all pagans from the community.  The pagans are, however, restricted to living at the edge of the city in a district called the Clostrum.
[/ic]
I hope this properly answers the question on the status of wizards (or whatever I'll call them) in Ithegra.