Alternative Explosive for Firearms

[Taurren]

I'm continuing my work on an old homebrew setting that will include some magical elements that have a "tech" counterpart.  Although not necessarily steam or magi "-punk" per se, the setting will take place with the central region on the cusp of a social, cultural and magical renaissance where the legendary accomplishments of lost civilizations are being re-discovered and introduced to a group of cultures that have remained basically stagnant for over a century.  One of those elements that I'm working on now is an alternative (preferably magical based) to gunpowder.

Some of the key design elements to the alt-gunpowder that I'm thinking of using include ...
Lethality    I'm looking at guns being more lethal than either a heavy crossbow or longbow.  Basically maintaining
Scarcity    Availability of the powder(?) itself will be limited to a small number of sources such as an alchemist guild or a single nation.
Cost    Cost can also be a key element in the powder's scarcity, but I'm looking at it as a way of limiting the creation of numerous military units that could totally dominate a battlefield.
It Factor   This is the hardest design element to quantify.  I'm looking at the explosive having a unique magical "something" that either becomes a factor in the creation process or the when it is used.

Two examples of the "It Factor" that I have thought of are...
-The powder comes from the dung of a dragon.  This would make dragon hunters a key step in the creation process and would also mean that maintaining a sufficiently large population of dragons would be necessary.

-The key explosive property of the powder comes from elemental summoners who harness the light and heat of the sun and use it to enchant the powder.  A limitation on this type of powder might be that actual sunlight is needed for the explosive to happen, meaning that guns couldn't be used at night or underground unless a magical light (sunlight) is cast before the weapon is fired.  A restriction like this would mean that other missle weapons (crossbow, longbow) would maintain their importance despite the lethality of firearms.

So what do you think of the 2 examples above, and given the design elements, what other idea's pop into your head?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Superfluous Crow]

A common "balancing" factor in other roleplaying games is to make firearms unpredictable. They are powerful, but them jam or even explode.

[Nomadic]

You can also give them a long reloading time. Then you would have battles in which engaged opponents would fire off an initial volley before charging. Could be cool.

[Taurren]

Potential jamming and re-load time are definitely ways to balance out the use of guns in game, but its still a unique "it factor" that I'm trying to determine.

[Superfluous Crow]

I was looking at fantasy magnetism at a point when I was contemplating firearms, but it's probably not gritty enough for what you're looking for.
Pressurized air heated by cumbersome mechanisms could be cool too, if a bit overtly steampunky.
The dragon dung idea is cool enough, even if it seems to set up players a bit too well for a bad joke.
Oil of some kind could work as well. Perhaps not pumped up from the underground (too difficult and modern-ish), but mined instead. Either it exists in small natural reservoirs inside oilstones, or you mine it as a soft stone, and then have to melt it in a delicate procedure to extract the flammable viscous oil.

[Nomadic]

You could always just make it gnomes.

Guns are actually elaborate gnome dwellings crafted with the intent of attracting a family of gnomes to live inside them. Pulling the trigger rings a little bell. Hearing the bell the gnomes load a little pot with a gnome (wearing a very pointy metal hat). The pot is connected to the inside of the barrel via rubber straps. The gnomes heave back on the pot and let fly their comrade out the end of the gun. Of course this depletes a gun of gnomes so every once in awhile the owner must lure new gnomes with honeyed cakes and ale.

Pros: Killing gnomes
Cons: Overly silly

[Taurren]

You could always just make it gnomes.

Guns are actually elaborate gnome dwellings crafted with the intent of attracting a family of gnomes to live inside them. Pulling the trigger rings a little bell. Hearing the bell the gnomes load a little pot with a gnome (wearing a very pointy metal hat). The pot is connected to the inside of the barrel via rubber straps. The gnomes heave back on the pot and let fly their comrade out the end of the gun. Of course this depletes a gun of gnomes so every once in awhile the owner must lure new gnomes with honeyed cakes and ale.

Pros: Killing gnomes
Cons: Overly silly

Despite the con I think its the best idea I've heard in a long time!  :morons:

[Llum]

I think of things like this a lot (it's almost like a hobby within a hobby). Some of the ideas I've gone through.

-Magnetism, used by crushing a Storm Drake egg (because Storm Drakes release a torrent of electrical energy on death, as everyone knows ~~) to power a coil/gauss cannon/crossbow thing.

-Another idea was in the fall of the ancient civilizations, there was one group that cursed everyone so that blackpowder just wouldn't work for them or they're descendents. So only people who are descended from people who escaped the curse can use guns.

The common crystal energy shells thing, I believe Sparkletwists setting uses this, as do some of the books by L E Modesitt Jr, the Corean Chronicles.

[sparkletwist]

Hey, you must have summoned me back here. :D :P

Anyway, yes, energy locked up in crystals is something that I use, and might work for you. It could be something inherently in the crystals, or something that is put into the crystals; that line of reasoning made me also think of some sort of "psychic" energy, though this requires that it be more locked up in the user rather than the weapon. However, maybe the weapon has some kind of power reserve and then it needs to be taken to mage/psychic/shaman/whatever in order to "recharge" the gun.

I like the dragon dung thing. It's essentially very similar to black powder in that it's a chemical explosive, so a lot of the real history and technology can be adapted to your needs, but it also has more fantasy flavor to it. So if that's what you want, something like that would work out very well for you.

 

[Superfluous Crow]

In continuance of my own and Llum's contributions: If not magnetism, maybe just pure electrical power could fuel the weapons. Thunderguns you could call them, or something akin to that, harnessing the brunt force of a thunderbolt. I'm thinking you should look into fulgurite, or petrified lightning as it is sometimes called. Basically, when lightning bolts strike deserts, they make a path of solidified black glass down through the desert sand. Doesn't take a lot of imagination to come to the conclusion that this would be a material of some power.
(this is an actual phenomenon).

[Drizztrocks]

How about solar powered guns? Not as limited as the 'only working in sunlight' idea, but still limiting enough and interesting. You charge the gun in the sunlight, then can use it for a certain ammount of time before it has to be recharged.

[Taurren]

Thanks gang, those are some great idea's.  I particularly like Cataclysmic Crow's suggestion of the lightning strikes and the "Fulgurite".  Even though actual fulgurite is a desert phenomenon, I can easily imagine how lightning strikes against unique (and possibly magical) surface elements (ores, ice, ents  :huh:  etc) could possibly create powders of varying potency.

hmmm ... lots to consider.

[Endless_Helix]

Maybe there are a couple different types of charge, and each charge can only fire specific kinds of bullets. For instance Dragon's blood, congealed and powdered will fire gold and gem bullets, a Caul from a demon might only fire human bone fragments, and Basilisk venom and Phoenix tears mixed will only blast away living tissue.

[Taurren]

Maybe there are a couple different types of charge, and each charge can only fire specific kinds of bullets. For instance Dragon's blood, congealed and powdered will fire gold and gem bullets, a Caul from a demon might only fire human bone fragments, and Basilisk venom and Phoenix tears mixed will only blast away living tissue.

That's actually what I was thinking of doing using the different types of fulgurite.  A little elemental power to a gun.  Maybe even necromantic power if the fulgurite was created in an unhallowed location.