The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: NomadicYou all do realize that the last time this person posted was October of 2007? I myself haven't seen them on since.

Im still here, im just an expert lurker :) . Wow has it been that long, well now that ive finished studying for the year ive got some free time on my hands, so ill try become active again.

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumSo in light of all this, I was wondering if you'd object to my stealing this for Avayevnon?

If you like it, feel free to steal it.



Ill try and read the rest of the thread later, right now i gotta go.

i don't have much to say at the moment, except that you are off to a good start and i also noticed this in the yukum racial block(emphasis in bold)

QuoteHalfling Racial Traits
-2 Intelligence, +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Medium Yukums have no penalties or bonuses related to size
+4 to all Climb checks
Automatic Langauges: Yukum
Favored Class: Barbarian

QuoteNow that would be easy. Apparently, the only participants in this discussion are you, snakefing, and myself.

However, these sorts of decisions are highly dependable if we use a single-die or a dice pool system. If we used a dice pool mechanic, we could eg make it so that the attribute determines the number of dice rolled, while the skill provides the bonus added to each die. Only the highest (or lowest, depending on mechanic  ) die would then count for the final result.
[/quote]
My vote would be for "skills >> attributes".[/quote]
My vote as well.

Alight now if no one has any objections to these attributes we can work on exactly how we want these attributes to work? Do we want them to tie in to the skill system? are we going to make it the same as D&D or different?

QuoteThat's a whole different can of worms. You're mixing it a little up here - DnD magic's main problem is the fact that spellcasting power scales exponentially (each level grants more spells per day, with each spell having a greater impact, and each new spell being more powerful).

Having attributes empower spellcasting is no worse or better than having strength affect melee combat, or dexterity affect ranged combat. However, imho we need to take extra care that - if we include it at all - magic scales only on a linear base.

The problem i was refering to was that you could increase your ability score so much that it was almost impossible to save againsta spell, something that doesn't happen if you raise strength or dex just as high. But anyway we can discuss the magic system later.


Now correct me if im wrong? (my mind doesnt seem to want to work today), but we now have three attributes and 3 sub attributes for each:
Attribute: Body
Sub Attributes: Strength(Offense), Dexterity(Defense), Constitution(Resistance).

Attribute: Mind
Sub Attributes: Intelligence(Offense), Perception(Defense), Willpower(Resistance).

Attribute: Social?
Sub Attributes: Charm(Offense), Inspiration(defense), Intuition(Resistance).

QuoteI see what you mean. However, in most cases there is an attribute influence on magic in most cases (either "brains" for learned magic, or your "personality" for inborn magic). And if mental attributes power spellcasting, why shouldn't social attributes power social interaction?

Are we going to have attributes that power spellcasting? If so, we would have to limit the ways that attributes can be enhanced or the system would suffer from the same problem as the D&D magic system. And im not saying that we shouldn't have social attributes but they are a little harder to describe accurately and what would the sub attributes be?

QuoteWell, one question is still unanswered: how many base attributes/categories/... do we need? Is it really necessary to include an extra section for "socialness" and "magicalness", or could we combine these two into one (as both are quite "intangable" compared to the power of the body and the mind).

I think 3 sub attributes per category seems about right:
#1 - raw power (strength / intelligence / charm)
#2 - resistance (constitution / willpower / intuition)
#3 - reaction (dexterity / perception / inspiration)
[/quote]Depends. Are we including something like "ability modifiers"? If not and we're working off the score alone, I would suggest using something along the 1-10 (avg 3) range or something.
[/quote]
Why only the 1-10 range? why not 1-12 or something? im just curious as to why you choose these numbers.

Some possible sub attributes
Body: Strength, Dexterity, Speed, Agility, Constitution, Endurance, Toughness, Stamina, Reflexes, Reaction.
Mind: Intelligence, Wisdom, Intuition, Willpower, Perception, Awareness.
Social: Charisma, Appearance?

So the questions become how many sub attributes do we want to have? should we have an even number of sub attributes for each main attribute? What to we want the attributes to range from? the usual D&D 1-18? or something new?

Thoughts?

so let me see if i have this right, we have four "base attributes": Body, Mind, Social and Spiritual with a series of "sub attributes" that are yet to be defined fully, that help describe and define a character?

Well to me attributes should be used to help describe and define a character, such as what the character can and can't do, but they also should have some sort of in game mechanics that is used as a balancing device.

QuoteBackground abilities '" Often things come up that are not directly covered by skills or other specific mechanical aspects of the game. Can the character lift a heavy item? Remember a password for a system they haven't logged on to for years? Resist the mind control lasers? Attributes can be used to differentiate between characters so that not everyone has the same background capabilities. I've seen some systems where players could make up their own attributes '" background abilities were assumed to be average unless the character had some attribute that made them better (or worse) than average. This can be a useful adjunct to the descriptive characterization elements, if you want to make mechanical distinctions between characters. Practically speaking, it works pretty well to just assume that characters are pretty much average at anything that isn't directly dealt with by the rules.

Thoughts?[/b]
Come on people lets not allow this discussion to die (again).
*Gets the pointy stick out* dont make me use this

In an effort to get this thread back up and running it was suggested that the thread should be broken up into smaller threads each discussing a specific idea. And so i present the first thread of many that will hopefully help us iron out the CBG's System.

This thread is solely for the discussion of the names/types of attributes characters are going to possess in the CBG's System, as well as anything else anyone can possibly think of that relates to attributes. And hopefully i can say that we want the CBG's System to differ from D&Ds, and if that is the case do we want attributes that just describe the body, the mind, the soul, all three, something else?

So get discussing :)

QuoteNow, did this just die a quick death after I announced my - temporary - retreat, or did anyone put some more thought into it?

Its certainly seems that way. And in the spirit of resurrecting this thread, what subgroups were you thinking of splitting this up into?

Are you still working on this at all? Cause i think this could be a great system. Well if you are i would like to know how you would go about finding a stealthy character, as in normal DnD it would be opposed skill checks, but you dont have any skills to do so with(eg: spot listen), instead a Perception stat, so would it just be a stealth check against a Perception check, because i can see a lot of failed perception checks.

Also have you tied anything else to the Soul stats so that players will think twice before skimping on them?

Quote from: LordVreegProtection and design on many armors were heavier on the non-shield side, becasue they knew more would 'get through' on that side.  I allow block, dodge, parry, but protection is it's own animal.  
I'm not saying dump what you are doing; but I would allow a % of protection from the armor regardless of what type of defence choice is made, say 1/3 or 1/4.

Third, Is your's a low HP setting?  That helps get a feel for the affect of DR.  I run a high damage, Low HP setting, where the highest HP for a PC is 36, and size large creatures average 25 hits of damage per attack. So, Armor is the be-all and end all of my system.  Soft-shelled players (as they are called by the Blue Turtles Samurai) that go into real combat die.  
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ANyway, I like what you are doing.
[/quote]
Thanks

First of i should mention that i intend to use this system im my campaign setting, which uses
* skills in place of BAB, and saving throws.
* A combat defense system in place of AC.

||___ARMOR___||   

[table=Armor as DR]
[tr][th]Armor[/th][th]Bludgeoning DR[/th][th]Piercing DR[/th][th]Slashing DR[/th][th]Armor Check Penalty[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Padded[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]+0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leather[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]4[/td][td]+0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Studded Leather[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][td]-1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Chain Shirt[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]4[/td][td]-2[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Hide[/td][/td][td]3[/td][td]7[/td][td]5[/td][td]-3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Scale Mail[/td][/td][td]7[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]-4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Chain Mail[/td][/td][td]6[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]-5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Breastplate[/td][/td][td]8[/td][td]4[/td][td]4[/td][td]-4[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Splint Mail[/td][/td][td]7[/td][td]4[/td][td]10[/td][td]-7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Banded Mail[/td][/td][td]10[/td][td]5[/td][td]6[/td][td]-6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Half-Plate[/td][/td][td]7[/td][td]5[/td][td]11[/td][td]-7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Full-Plate[/td][/td][td]8[/td][td]6[/td][td]12[/td][td]-6[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Damage Resistance: or DR is the ability to ignore specific types of damage dealt by a specific source, each time it would be dealt. Damage Resistance is usually gained from any armor a character wears or from any natural damage resistance a character possesses, however it does not matter how a character receives this Damage Resistance, only that each source of damage resistance is different. The following types of damage can be resisted: Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing, Fire, Electricity, Cold, Sonic and Desiccation. These resistances do not have any affect on any saving throws that might be associated with an attack, and multiple sources of resistance from different sources stack with each other.

||___Combat Defenses___||
When you are attacked, you can designate one combat defense to be applied to each attack made against you by an opponent. You may never designate two different defenses against the same attack (Eg: trying to parry a blow after you failed dodging it); except Armor Defense is always applied to all attacks as a fallback option.

'¢Armor Defense: Is allowing your armor to absorb a specific amount and type of damage that is applied to all damage rolls made against you. And is equal to the Damage Resistance (DR) for each specific armor (see table:?-?). This is the only defense that is applied to all incoming attacks.
'¢Block Defense: Is allowing your shield to block an incoming attack, your total Block Defense is equal to 1d20 + Close Combat Skill + Shield bonus which is then used against an opponents attack roll; If you exceed an opponents attack roll against you, you succeed in blocking the incoming attack with your shield. You may attempt to block a number of attacks equal to half the number of Close Combat Ranks per encounter; each block attempt uses one Block Defense. You must possess a shield to use this Defense.
'¢Dodge Defense: Is the ability to dodge an incoming attack. And is equal to 1d20 + Reflex Skill, with a -2 penalty to each dodge attempt after the first, if you exceed an opponents attack roll against you,  you succeed in dodging the incoming attack. You may attempt to dodge a number of attacks equal to the number of ranks in your Reflex Skill per encounter; each dodge attempt uses one Dodge Defense.
'¢Parry Defense: Is equal to your 1d20 + Close Combat Skill + deflection modifier with the current weapon, which is use as an opposed roll against the opponents attack roll, if you exceed an opponents attack roll against you, you succeed in parrying the incoming attack with your weapon. You may attempt to parry a number of attacks equal to half the number of Close Combat Ranks per encounter; each parry attempt uses one Parry Defense.


So what do you think? Got any observations or critisisms? please share them.