The Campaign Builder's Guild

But Profession ranks should allow you to perform certain tasks, as the book says. But that only works for heirlings who actively use their profession skill, and even then there are no hardset rules for what skills each particular profession can mimic. I'll make a list eventually, letting you make checks with +5 to the DC using Profession for specific tasks, but not everything.

I could see millitary people having "profession: soldier", but hirelings hired for combat will be priced based on their level, like the PHB or DMG lists them. A warrior's profession is battle, so their "profession" ranks are their BAB.

Actualy, reading thru, the price of hiring a warrior doesn't change depending on his ranks in profession. It's dependant on his level. All it changes is how much he makes during a week. That is so stupid.

Actuallly: reading the profession skill, i'm pretty sure it's used to handle things that aren't modeled already. Innkeeping, shoemaking, etc. You'll notice someone who uses profession untrained is an untrained laborer: that does not describe a warrior at all. I don't the skill is necessary for anyone who has some other valuable resource: whether high skill ranks in spot, spellcasting, or high hd & an attack bonus. Someone like a commoner or expert, they would need it, though, because what else do they have that someone else needs?

(the dmg may disagree with me in some places with skills such as profession (hunter), despite the blantantly similiar and flat out better survival skill. that may have been a 3.0 thing, though.)

I could see profession (warrior) used to model say, tactics or logistics though. Maybe a warrior who has maxed on profession (guardsman) really knows how to run a town guard as an effective body, when to set watches, knowing how often to send out patrols, etc. as opposed to just knowing how to hit things.

Craft is labor, profession is service. A shoemaker has Craft (shoes), a general store owner has Profession (merchant). But that's neither here nor there, and we're getting away from the discussion; don't worry about profession ranks.

This NPC feat progressions idea is totally cool. Kudos on that Xeviat!

As a minor point, the_taken's material that assumes fighter class levels could easily be adapted by changing the class levels: the number of feats he gave is the same as you asked for.

As for Profession, it is supposedly used to model being an above-average labour force. This would thus supposedly be most relevant to NPCs (since PCs, in most campaigns, would be expected to have a non-Profession-based occupation, and if they would, it wouldn't be handled by skill checks (that would make the lamest campaign ever)). Interestingly, human commoners get 3+Int skill points per level, that makes 3 points assuming average Intelligence. Given that they have almost no useful class skills, it would be only reasonable to assume that most or all of them have some ranks in a Craft or Profession skill. However, someone with even one rank in Profession OR Craft can earn an average of 5 gp per week (assuming at least 8 points of Wisdom or Intelligence, respectively), which is about seven times the untrained wage of 7 sp per week. This is obviously non-sensical, considering that (as a low estimate) 75% of the population is expected to consist of minimum-wage earners (simple farmers and untraied labour). The whole idea of Craft and Profession does not make sense, at least not with the numbers that are currently attached to them.

Just some random thoughts. Will we be seeing this in the Post and/or the Guide?

Túrin

It will make it into the Guide when it is complete. I hadn't noticed that Meepo's progressions were designed with the Warrior in mind; I'd assume that an NPC Fighter would be best built following two chains at once for simplicity.

So I'll take the ideas given and see what I can make of them. I'll update the first post soon.

Quote from: TúrinAs a minor point, the_taken's material that assumes fighter class levels could easily be adapted by changing the class levels: the number of feats he gave is the same as you asked for.

Isn't that funny. A lvl 6 fighter knows all the tricks a lvl 18 warrior does.

Quote from: XeviatArcher: A longbowman, trained for fighting on open battlefields.
Cavalry: A mounted warrior; may have a ranged and melee path.
Destroyer: A strength based warrior who focuses on being the best at killing. Uses a two-handed weapon.
Guard: A warrior trained primarily in defense; must be alert.
Martial Artist: A warrior from a formalized environment who learns to use anything, even their hands, as a weapon (this will be the two-weapon fighter). Might be common as a peasent warrior in regions where peasents are not allowed to carry weapons of war.
Pikeman: A spear user, primarily trained in defense.
Skirmisher: A mobile melee and ranged warrior; might have a ranged and a melee path. Also could be noted as a Guerilla tactician.
Soldier: A warrior trained for mass combat and endurance; uses a weapon and shield.
Thug: A street fighter, uses underhanded and unarmed tactics (since many cities would look down on openly displaying a weapon).

For the sake of every one's sanity, I'm going to make builds without the proffesion skill in mind. However, for ease of conversion the feats are placed in the order that a Lvl6 fighter would be able to qualify for.

Cavalier (Warrior)
STR, CON, WIS, CHA, INT, DEX
Hu - Animal Affinity
L1 - Skill Focus (Handle Animal)
L6 - Ride by Attack
L9 - Power Attack
L12 - Skill Focus (Ride)
L15 - Spirited Charge
L18 - Improved Sunder

He charges, moves on, rinses and repeats. A varient of this maneuver is charging and wrecking a shield. This build can also train it's own mount, thanks to the focus in handle animal.

Destroyer (Warrior)
STR, CON, WIS, DEX, CHA, INT
Hu/Fl - Improved Toughness
L1 - Power Attack
L3 - Improved Sunder
L6 - Improved Bull Rush
L9 - Improved Overun
L12 - Monkey Grip
L15 - Shock Trooper
L18 - Combat Brute

Key skill is intimidate. This guy is dumb and tough, and he can be compared to a similaritly built fighter.

Guard (Warrior)
DEX, STR, WIS, INT, CON, CHA
Hu/Fl - Blind-fight
L1 - Alertness
L3 - Combat Expertise
L6 - Improved Disarm
L9 - Skill Focus (Spot)
L12 - Improved Trip
L15 - Improved Toughness
L18 - Skill Focus (Listen)

This build emphasises taking things alive for questioning/torture. It should have enough skill points for both listen and spot. Only a stealthy or magicaly stealthy  character is going to get by. (Which is all of them)

Martial Artist (Warrior)
DEX, STR, INT, CON, WIS, CHA
Flaw - Shaky
Hu/Fl - Combat Expertise
L1 - Improved Unarmed Strike
L3 - Two-weapon Fighting
L6 - Improved Disarm
L9 - Improved Two-weapon Fighting
L12 - Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike)
L15 - Improved Toughness
L18 - Greater Two-weapon Fighting

You've seen this before. Remember to take the shaky flaw if you're not human.

Pikeman (Warrior)
STR, DEX, CON, WIS, INT, CHA
Hu/Fl - Run
L1 - Quick Draw
L3 - Combat Reflexes
L6 - Combat Expertise
L9 - Improved Trip
L12 - Improved Initiative
L15 - Formation Expert
L18 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Whip) or (Spiked Chain)

This warrior is especialy effective against mounted warriors. Their equipment is a decent suit of armor, a reach weapon and a single one-handed weapon. EWP is there to keep things interesting in later levels.

Halberdier (Warrior)
DEX, STR, CON, WIS, INT, CHA
Hu - Weapon Focus (Halberd)
L1 - Two-weapon Fighting
L3 - Combat Reflexes
L6 - Hold the Line
L9 - Improved Toughness
L12 - Improved Initiative
L15 - Formation Expert
L18 - Weapon Style [Spinning Halberd]

A varient Pikemen that's more offensive. A halberd is not a reach weapon, but the offensive petential is realized when the fact that a halbed is still treated as a two-handed weapon.

Guerilla (Warrior)
STR, INT, WIS, DEX, CON, CHA
Hu/Fl - Alertness
L1 - Stealthy
L3 - Point Blank Shot
L6 - Dodge
L9 - Improved Initiative
L12 - Mobility
L15 - Shot on the Run
L18 - Quick Draw

This guy is built for hit-and-run tactics. He also has keen senses and can double as a guard. Problem is that he needs alot of skill points. Orcs make terrible guerillas 'cause of the INT penalty.

Mounted Archer (warrior)
DEX, STR, DEX, INT, CHA, WIS, CON
Hu - Skill Focus (Ride)
L1 - Mounted Combat
L3 - Point Blank Shot
L6 - Mounted Archery
L9 - Skill Focus (Handle Animal)
L12 - Far Shot
L15 - Rapid Shot
L18 - Precise Shot

A much more impressive skirmisher than the foot slogger from above, this bastard combines the two best qualities of the guerilla and the cavalier. Speed and evasive offence. Best served atop a T-rex.

Soldier (Warrior)
DEX, CON, STR, WIS, INT, CHA
Hu/Fl - Weapon Finess
L1 - Two-weapon Fighting
L3 - Improved Shield Bash
L6 - Phanlax Fighting
L9 - Improved Toughness
L12 - Shield Charge
L15 - Formation Expert
L18 - Shield Slam

These guys always come in groups of atleast 10. They also stick together lick glue, making a wall of shields and stabbing, hacking and bashing stuff that gets too close, or charging in to the breach in one rolling wave. They are nimble too. Equip them with a light weapon and a light sheild for maximum effect. By virtue of this build, pikemen lose to sword and board warriors.

Thug (Warrior)
STR, CON, DEX, INT, CHA, WIS
Hu/Fl - Lightning Reflexes
L1 - Improved Unarmed Strike
L3 - Improved Grapple
L6 - Improve Intitiative
L9 - Power Attack
L12 - Roundabout Kick
L15 - Prone Attack
L18 - Blind-fight

The best NPC brawler evar!!!

Wow, thank you so very much taken, that is amazing. A few things seem off, like you gave the guerilla shot on the run before mobility, but that can be fixed. I'll be writing all of these down and seeing how it all works out.

Quote from: XeviatWow, thank you so very much taken, that is amazing. A few things seem off, like you gave the guerilla shot on the run before mobility, but that can be fixed.

Meh, polishings.

Quote from: XeviatI'll be writing all of these down and seeing how it all works out.

Please relay your findings.

Hehe i maight actually use some of this soon
Great work guys
and the_taken...*shivers*...creepy avatar
i had to say

Wow, the_taken, awesome work! Those one-line flavour texts really make them come to life.

the_taken, I'd like your okay to use these for a "The Post" article. Since you designed the builds, I'll only polish, it's mostly your work, so I wanted your approval.

Quote from: Xeviatthe_taken, I'd like your okay to use these for a "The Post" article. Since you designed the builds, I'll only polish, it's mostly your work, so I wanted your approval.

No problem. (I did noticed some typos on my last overview. Sry.)

Quote from: So-KeherHehe i maight actually use some of this soon
Great work guys
and the_taken...*shivers*...creepy avatar
i had to say

Nice. Thanks. I know. :)

I personaly find the warrior class absolutely boring, even for an NPC. Nothing there to make stuff with but numbers. You'll notice that the feats there are in the exact same order a level 6 fighter would be able to take them. Most of these builds would make awesome lvl6 encounters, but at high levels, you have to pit the PCs against something much more exotic and powerfull.

Quote from: the_takenI personaly find the warrior class absolutely boring, even for an NPC. Nothing there to make stuff with but numbers. You'll notice that the feats there are in the exact same order a level 6 fighter would be able to take them. Most of these builds would make awesome lvl6 encounters, but at high levels, you have to pit the PCs against something much more exotic and powerfull.

The same statement could be said about any NPC, really-- after a certain point, they just don't have the phat lewt to compete.