The Campaign Builder's Guild

I have a question for those of you that have presented your worlds as websites:

Do you use any designer program to do all that?

Previously, I had done all the coding by hand in notepad, but the prospect of copying an entire world that way is...tedious.

I tried the trial version of Dreamweaver, but it is very expensive (at $399).

Frontpage is cheaper at $199, but since only a limited trial is allowed, I am uncertain if it is worthwhile.

Is there a favorite program for coding large, complex sites?  I'm curious about the community opinion before making a purchase.

I have dreamweaver... we got it free. *confused*

Quote from: GolemI have dreamweaver... we got it free. *confused*

Oh?  The adobe site that had the trial version listed the purchase price as $399.  Do you mean you downloaded an illegal copy?  Or that you got it through a college or something?  Certainly, for free, it would be very nice; the trial version was at least nicer than doing it the way I had been up until this point (notepad and lots of typing).

Quote from: http://shadowfell.orgshadowfell.org[/url], and realize that the menu was typed once, everything else is as close to plaintext as possible.)

Using includes can also save typing (or really, cut & pasting.) here's a tutorial for how to do it in php. You can do the same thing in asp & a couple other languages as well, but the syntax is different of course. Which one you can use depends entirely on your web host.

As far as things that MUST be long tables (class tables, for instance) I'd get a free, crappy wysiwyg web editor (like NVU), build the table in it, and copy it over to notepad. You could also use the class tags here, but finding the output in the source is irritating.

For my website (currently not in use, hopefully to be revived after a more thorough revision of my setting), I coded everything by hand in Wordpad. The actual amount of tedious code involved was really not so bad, as I set up a template and did a lot of copy/paste substitution.

I had a free copy of Dreamweaver as part of the software package loaned to all students at my old college. But I found the interface finicky and the code awkward, so I continued just putting it in by hand.

I agree with LC... the website I currently have is nicely set up (mostly by brainface) so that I can just insert any new and relevant information like it's a template.  You'll need to at least make one page to use as the template, but it's really not so bad if you do a little research.

Quote from: Phoenix Knight

Quote from: GolemI have dreamweaver... we got it free. *confused*

Oh?  The adobe site that had the trial version listed the purchase price as $399.  Do you mean you downloaded an illegal copy?  Or that you got it through a college or something?  Certainly, for free, it would be very nice; the trial version was at least nicer than doing it the way I had been up until this point (notepad and lots of typing).

*thinks*

I didn't download an illegal copy... I think. *shifty eyes*

I'll ask my parent, who I inherited it from.

As always, the community is very helpful.

Ishy, Shadowfell was one of the sites I had in mind when asking the question, because it is so nicely done.

Brainface, thanks for the php information.  I never really new what that was in people's code before.  I'm hardly an expert web designer, having just taught myself the very basics using HTML/CSS for Dummies books.

Much of my setting/mechanics was in Word document format, and I found it easier to copy entire pages into the design area for Dreamweaver than copy and then go back and add formating markup (paragraph and heading tags, tables, and such, which Dreamweaver and presumably most designers did automatically).  Admittedly, laziness, but then that's the source of almost all mechanical advancements, right?

I think the php stuff may make things a lot easier.  I had used some tables for the parts in Word (mainly for asethics).  I also found a number of things easier when working in design view than code view (like just typing large amounts of content, in which lots of code can be distracting.  Making links was also nice when I could click, rather than type long ones.

I'm only a little familiar with DIVs, so I'm reading more about them in the book since you said they would be helpful.

I'll look into the program you mention.  Any free editor is a nice deal ;)

@LC
I found DW fairly intuitive, but perhaps the trial version was newer and easier.  I liked that I could split view between code (for complex stuff) and design (for most stuff).  I sometimes wish it was easier to do that when trying to format an MS Word document...

My thanks, everyone.

Oh, Ishy, by the way, did you make the banner graphic yourself?  It's wonderful.  I definitely need to find something like that.

Quote@LC
I found DW fairly intuitive, but perhaps the trial version was newer and easier. I liked that I could split view between code (for complex stuff) and design (for most stuff). I sometimes wish it was easier to do that when trying to format an MS Word document...

True. And to be fair, the version of Dreamweaver I used dates back several years, to the start of my undergrad days. Maybe it's come a long way since then.

What I usually do is set up my screen so that half is covered by a cleverly-resized Wordpad window containing my .html file, and the other half is covered by a cleverly-resized web browser window, reading the file off my hard drive. I can see changes quickly with a quick Alt-S, Alt-Tab (to the browser) and F5.

Yeah, I made that Phoenix... let me know if you have something in mind, I'll see what I can come up with.

Freewebs has a kickass editing software called WebsEdit.

I would give you more information if my ears would stop playing Jamaican beats.

Quote from: Elven DoritosI would give you more information if my ears would stop playing Jamaican beats.

You don't want them to stop. Take them on the road, and make money off them. Talk shows, morning shows, etc...


On topic: Notepad. :)

That's very generous Ishy.  I'll PM you when I've thought about what I want a little more.

Thanks ElDo, I'll checkout Freewebs.

Now that I have a bit more time, I've gotten back to working on a site.  I've decided to try the PHP design recommended by Brainface.  I'm trying to use the Hosting section here, but I've run into some difficulties.  After working at this all weekend, I turn to the community.  If anyone can help with this, I'd be very grateful.

I am trying to set up the typical menu on the left, content on the right design.  Taking brainface's advice, I've been referencing Shadowfell and reading the tutorial, but since I cannot see all of the original PHP design, there are still some things that I have had trouble with.

My main file (index.php) looks like this:
[spoiler=index]
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-

html40/loose.dtd">
<html>
<head>
   <title>Kishar</title>
   <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="styles.css">
</head>

<body>




<div id="menu">
      <a href="index.php?page=home">Home</a>
      <a href="index.php?page=trial">Trial</a>
   <h3>The World</h3>
      
   
</div>

<div id="content">
<?php @ require ("$page.html"); ?>

</div>


</body>
</html>[/spoiler]

While the menu appears properly, and both divisions, the links do not work - they do not load anything into the "content" DIV.

Both "trial" and "home" are normal html files and have only "test X" (where X is 1 or 2), since I'm just trying get the settup to work before doing content.

In case it somehow matters, I copied the CSS definitions for the divisions, but added temporary borders so I could see where they were (to be removed once things work).

[spoiler=CSS]
#menu   {
   float:left;
   display:list-item;
   list-style-type:none;
   text-align:left;
   margin-top:1em;
   width:210px;
   /*margin-right:3px;
   padding-right:2px;*/
   margin:0; padding:0;
border: solid blue;
}


#content {
   width:484px;
   padding:3px;
   float:right;
   font-size:1em;
   line-height:1.1em;
border: solid green;
   }
[/spoiler]

If anyone knows what the issue is, please let me know.

Also, to have a particular page ("home") load from the get-good, do I have type it both into the main index.php file and a seperate file so it could be linked to later?