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Why don't more people explore themes from ancient Egyptian mysticism?

Started by Lmns Crn, March 17, 2011, 09:24:34 PM

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Lmns Crn

Seriously, this stuff is neat.

You've got this idea of a soul with seven distinct parts, each with its own absolutely essential function, which must be exercised and protected from mystical tampering. You've got the whole idea of a cartouche, which protectively encircles your name whenever it's written, to help protect your name from people screwing with it magically, because your name is part of your soul.

You've got the most hardcore "St. Peter at the Pearly Gates" scenario ever, where Anubis weighs your heart against a feather from Ma'at, and if you fail the test you are devoured on the spot by a bigass monster.

You've got kings and priests who do name-based sympathetic magic by declaring themselves to be particular gods, to borrow those gods' power: lots of the incantations in the Book of the Dead, which instruct people on how to navigate the afterlife after they die, start with something along the lines of "I am Osiris: I've done this shit before, and I'll do it again...."

We get a metric ton of settings with influences from medieval Europe (I'll own up, I'm guilty), a bunch with Asian themes (also: guilty), occasional Native American ideas (guilty), and I guess the odd nod to the Indian subcontinent here and there, but I can't remember the last time I felt like a fantasy fiction writer was consciously taking elements from Egyptian ideas. And I can't understand why not, because there are so many awesome ideas there to borrow.
I move quick: I'm gonna try my trick one last time--
you know it's possible to vaguely define my outline
when dust move in the sunshine

Weave

The short answer for me? Naivety.

The long answer for me? I've been so overexposed to medieval European history or early American history that all my life anything outside it (even the more popular Asian themes) is quite new to me. In school, it was generally all I was taught, and I didn't have a choice otherwise. If I wanted to learn about other places, I pretty much relied on wikipedia. Otherwise, I didn't have much desire (in those days, that is to say) to explore beyond, since most of my preferred fantasy was based on medieval European stuff.

Nowadays? I really wish I could've taken a Chinese history class, or even Russian history, or anything. Funny you mention it Egyptian, though: A while back when I first joined these boards, I toyed around with the idea of an Egyptian-style cyberpunk mech/genie desert setting, mostly because it sounded extremely unique and no one had done it, as far as I knew. Regardless, it never really took off, as you can accurately surmise.

Also, I really, really love anything with European folklore. Just hits the spot for me.

You're right, though: now that I see some of the stuff other themes can really dig out, they seem pretty awesome. I'll admit that Egyptian, strangely, never jumped out at me (not because I thought it was boring or some such, but when I think of setting themes, Egyptian just doesn't register as one for some gosh darned reason). Curious.

I'll let you know this, though: I will be using some of this stuff for my next campaign setting, which is kind of Myst-inspired, with god-like author people, so the whole "cartouche" idea and possibly the soul thing will play a good part methinks.

Magnus Pym

I thought about Ancient Egyptian philosophies for one of my people in my setting. Of course I haven't studied the subject too much yet, but I've done some and it's there in the to-do list.

I think one of the major reason as to why people overuse the European Medieval culture in their roleplaying game settings is that the fantasy stories basically come from that time. And I mean real, artistic fantasy stories from back then, not modern work. Also, the constant exposure to that and perhaps because the Dark Ages that were the medieval years give so many possibilities in term of SIMPLE intrigue (Today is much more complex and back in primeval times it might sound/look TOO simple for some, idk).

Just my two cents.

P.S: I'm kind of -on a break- with my setting, I've been thinking about it alot though, always do.

SDragon

The story of Sun and Moon, in Xiluh, is based partly on a fight between Horus and... Set, I believe?

Really, when I was younger, the two mythologies that stuck out to me where Norse and Egyptian. Greek was too Roman (and vice versa), Celtic was too Grimm's Fairy Tales, and Native American was too woods-and-sticks-and-beavers.

Those were the two that consistently evoked a real sense of wonder for me. I suppose when you think about it, Xiluh uses a Mesoamerican setting to evoke, to some degree, an Egyptian sense of wonder.
[spoiler=My Projects]
Xiluh
Fiendspawn
Opening The Dark SRD
Diceless Universal Game System (DUGS)
[/spoiler][spoiler=Merits I Have Earned]
divine power
last poster in the dragons den for over 24 hours award
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operating system
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[/spoiler][spoiler=Books I Own]
D&D/d20:
PHB 3.5
DMG 3.5
MM 3.5
MM2
MM5
Ebberon Campaign Setting
Legends of the Samurai
Aztecs: Empire of the Dying Sun
Encyclopaedia Divine: Shamans
D20 Modern

GURPS:

GURPS Lite 3e

Other Systems:

Marvel Universe RPG
MURPG Guide to the X-Men
MURPG Guide to the Hulk and the Avengers
Battle-Scarred Veterans Go Hiking
Champions Worldwide

MISC:

Dungeon Master for Dummies
Dragon Magazine, issues #340, #341, and #343[/spoiler][spoiler=The Ninth Cabbage]  \@/
[/spoiler][spoiler=AKA]
SDragon1984
SDragon1984- the S is for Penguin
Ona'Envalya
Corn
Eggplant
Walrus
SpaceCowboy
Elfy
LizardKing
LK
Halfling Fritos
Rorschach Fritos
[/spoiler]

Before you accept advice from this post, remember that the poster has 0 ranks in knowledge (the hell I'm talking about)

LD

>>Nowadays? I really wish I could've taken a Chinese history class, or even Russian history, or anything

It's easy enough to teach yourself. Check out the ___ history section and the ____ sociology sections of your local library; or if you want cliffs notes version, just google it and try to find the authoritative site on those subjects and go from there. I'd actually recommend Chinese religion or philosophy rather than history from which to draw information.
--
As far as using medieval history, you are probably correct for the reasons you state above.

However, if you live in the West, it makes sense to use Western medieval history as a basis; just as much sense as it is for fantasy authors to base things on Tolkien... since readers can be lazier in the sense that they can take things for granted---just like when they're reading general fiction; fantasy, however asks a lot of authors and readers-they have to learn orcreate the world, the plot, the characters, and the magic. That's why a lot of fantasy is so bad... authors spend too much time on the world and the magic and too little on the characters.

>>I toyed around with the idea of an Egyptian-style cyberpunk mech/genie desert setting, mostly because it sounded extremely unique and no one had done it, as far as I knew.

That sounds like a very good idea; mix Japanese anime with Egyptian myth. I even think a steampunk Egypt mixed with Arabic thousand and one nights (jet-powered flying carpets) and jewish golems could be interesting.

>>I guess the odd nod to the Indian subcontinent here and there

Hm. Other than Asura and Paizo's Vudra part of Golarion, I can't think of many if any other Indian-themed settings.

Superfluous Crow

While you don't necessarily see a lot of settings built around a single cultural paradigm aside from western medieval history (and Japan), a lot of other cultures are exposed in parts of larger mainstream settings. Almost every single one has some sort of China equivalent, and if there is a a large desert area there is a pretty good chance it's demi-Arabian.
Actually, a fair amount of mainstream settings have straight Egypt substitutes with pharaohs and pyramids and all of it. The issue in most cases actually seems to be that they draw too heavily from it. In their haste to make something "egyptian" it almost ends up being Egypt and while I respect inspiration, copy/paste is no fun.  
I think my first look into Egyptian mythology was actually through the old D&D3.0 Deities and Demigods splatbook. I never really cared for the rules, to be honest, but it actually had an incredible level of detail when it came to detailing the Norse, Greek and Egyptian pantheons and mythologies.
I agree there are some pretty cool myths to draw from, but there is also a level of difficulty in making the origin indiscernable. But one's setting could definitely benefit from a few choice pieces. Personally, I have a fondness for the tradition of embalment and mummification along with the canopic jars.    
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Ninja D!

Honestly, one of the big reasons is probably that it's simply too good. It seems that people have a hard time just borrowing from Egyptian ideas and, instead, duplicate them. One such setting that I have experience with is Khemet, which is the setting of Gary Gygax's Necropolis. I've actually played a couple of sessions with that setting and enjoyed it very much.

The idea of a name-based magic system could be really cool, though. You could even take it to the level where it could be used with anyone. Maybe 'borrowing' a person's name, would give you a boost to whatever their highest stat is (in game terms, that is) with certain special individuals (such as gods) doing more than that. I think to give proper power to the cartouche, you could make it built around writing. That would have the added effect, in most fantasy settings where literacy is low, of restricting use of this kind of magic. Like I said, it could be a lot of fun.

I always intended for more Egyptian influence to show through in Natu, since it is a small interest of mine. Mostly, I figured that would be socially, since I don't do much with religions unless I feel they're important to that portion of the setting (like looking back at my Great Empire of Un, where the government was built entirely around the religious story and the official temple was part of the system of checks and balances that kept things running smoothly enough). When I get back to it, I may just include the above sort of magic system in it. I was, after all, looking for a sort of magic to include other than necromancy, since I had stepped away from D&D.

Ninja D!

Also, if anyone were interested, I would take part in cooperatively designing such a magic system. Not fishing but I figured I'd throw that out there.

sparkletwist

The question was primarily about the Egyptian concept of the afterlife, I guess. It seems like you see themes from Egyptian architecture and culture more commonly than you see these themes-- I know that my "desert" area is sort of a mishmash of Arabian, Ottoman, and Egyptian cultures for one. I even have a civilization called the Hotep Dynasty! :P

The afterlife notions are much more drawn from Indian mythology, though, along with my own crazy ideas.

SDragon

Interestingly enough, in the late 19th-early 20th centuries, when Egyptology was somewhat new and popular, it had appealed to many occultists. Characters such as Thoth and Horus are prominent in the works of Aleister Crowley, which are otherwise Qabalistic mysticism and ritual magic.

This, I think, could be an interesting way to add Egyptian flavor to a setting.
[spoiler=My Projects]
Xiluh
Fiendspawn
Opening The Dark SRD
Diceless Universal Game System (DUGS)
[/spoiler][spoiler=Merits I Have Earned]
divine power
last poster in the dragons den for over 24 hours award
Commandant-General of the Honor Guard in Service of Nonsensical Awards.
operating system
stealer of limetom's sanity
top of the tavern award


[/spoiler][spoiler=Books I Own]
D&D/d20:
PHB 3.5
DMG 3.5
MM 3.5
MM2
MM5
Ebberon Campaign Setting
Legends of the Samurai
Aztecs: Empire of the Dying Sun
Encyclopaedia Divine: Shamans
D20 Modern

GURPS:

GURPS Lite 3e

Other Systems:

Marvel Universe RPG
MURPG Guide to the X-Men
MURPG Guide to the Hulk and the Avengers
Battle-Scarred Veterans Go Hiking
Champions Worldwide

MISC:

Dungeon Master for Dummies
Dragon Magazine, issues #340, #341, and #343[/spoiler][spoiler=The Ninth Cabbage]  \@/
[/spoiler][spoiler=AKA]
SDragon1984
SDragon1984- the S is for Penguin
Ona'Envalya
Corn
Eggplant
Walrus
SpaceCowboy
Elfy
LizardKing
LK
Halfling Fritos
Rorschach Fritos
[/spoiler]

Before you accept advice from this post, remember that the poster has 0 ranks in knowledge (the hell I'm talking about)