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Theme War 2: Archetypical versus "Unique"

Started by Elven Doritos, October 20, 2006, 09:00:59 AM

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beejazz

#15
October 23, 2006, 12:18:59 AM
Cyber-what-now? Mine gots the massive hovercraft and the melange ripoff, but no computers as it now stands.
Beejazz's Homebrew System
 Beejazz's Homebrew Discussion

QuoteI don't believe in it anyway.
What?
England.
Just a conspiracy of cartographers, then?

Epic Meepo

#16
October 23, 2006, 11:17:55 AM
Quote from: Luminous CrayonA pitfall I dislike is when a writer tries to characterize a playable race as exotic and mysterious by giving no information about them. If I want to play a Xaq in someone's campaign, and the entire description for the Xaq race is basically "they live in the far-off deserts, and little is known about them," I suddenly have a character with no cultural identity. Little is known about them? Even to themselves? I've been a Xaq all my life and I know "little" about my own native culture? How is that supposed to work?
Here, here! Every world builder should make note of this observation before starting their world. Same goes for "this land is a mysterious place from which no visitor has ever returned."
The Unfinished World campaign setting
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Unless noted otherwise, this post contains no Open Game Content.
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Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

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Cebexia, Tapestry of the Gods Copyright 2006-2007, the Campaign Builder's Guild.[/spoiler]

Túrin

#17
October 23, 2006, 11:29:08 AM
Quote from: Epic MeepoHere, here! Every world builder should make note of this observation before starting their world. Same goes for "this land is a mysterious place from which no visitor has ever returned."
That seems very different, at least at first glance. Care to explain?

Túrin
Proud owner of a Golden Dorito Award
My setting Orden's Mysteries is no longer being updated


"Then shall the last battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Melko, and on his right shall stand Fionwe and on his left Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, Conqueror of Fate; and it shall be the black sword of Turin that deals unto Melko his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Hurin and all men be avenged." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Shaping of Middle-Earth

CYMRO

#18
October 23, 2006, 11:50:59 AM
Quote from: Túrin
Quote from: Epic MeepoHere, here! Every world builder should make note of this observation before starting their world. Same goes for "this land is a mysterious place from which no visitor has ever returned."
That seems very different, at least at first glance. Care to explain?

Túrin

That phrase should not be the last word on said place.  It is a cop-out.
Campaign Building is not telling ghost stories.  A nation/region should be fleshed out, we the players/GM/casual reader should know what is there, whether or not the majority of characters know or not.  

Túrin

#19
October 23, 2006, 11:55:56 AM
But doesn't a setting benefit from having places that can be detailed by the individual DM? At the very least, it seems having a mysterious land would be far less of a worldbuilding sin than having a mysterious race.
Túrin
Proud owner of a Golden Dorito Award
My setting Orden's Mysteries is no longer being updated


"Then shall the last battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Melko, and on his right shall stand Fionwe and on his left Turin Turambar, son of Hurin, Conqueror of Fate; and it shall be the black sword of Turin that deals unto Melko his death and final end; and so shall the Children of Hurin and all men be avenged." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Shaping of Middle-Earth

Epic Meepo

#20
October 23, 2006, 12:00:26 PM
Quote from: Off-Topic ClarificationThe mysterious, undescribed land is, for GM's, what the mysterious, undescribed PC race is for players. In order to play an undescribed race, players need to invent their own culture. In order to run an adventure in which PCs might wander over into an undescribed land, a GM must invent his own inhabitants and terrain. In each of these cases, part of the world-building burden has been left to groups that actually run campaigns there.

(Note that I'm not opposed to the idea of mysterious, unexplored lands. It just isn't helpful to include lots of mysterious, unexplained lands. An "unexplored" land is one that has at least some detail, though no one in other areas is aware of it. An "unexplained" land has no details at all, and if PCs ever go there, the GM has no reference material explaining what the PCs might learn about the area.)[/spoiler]
The Unfinished World campaign setting
Proud recipient of a Silver Dorito Award.
Unless noted otherwise, this post contains no Open Game Content.
[spoiler=OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a]OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a
The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.

1. Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. (e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content; (f) "Trademark" means the logos, names, mark, sign, motto, designs that are used by a Contributor to identify itself or its products or the associated products contributed to the Open Game License by the Contributor (g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content. (h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement.

2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.

3.Offer and Acceptance: By Using the Open Game Content You indicate Your acceptance of the terms of this License.

4. Grant and Consideration: In consideration for agreeing to use this License, the Contributors grant You a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive license with the exact terms of this License to Use, the Open Game Content.

5.Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.

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7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.

8. Identification: If you distribute Open Game Content You must clearly indicate which portions of the work that you are distributing are Open Game Content.

9. Updating the License: Wizards or its designated Agents may publish updated versions of this License. You may use any authorized version of this License to copy, modify and distribute any Open Game Content originally distributed under any version of this License.

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12 Inability to Comply: If it is impossible for You to comply with any of the terms of this License with respect to some or all of the Open Game Content due to statute, judicial order, or governmental regulation then You may not Use any Open Game Material so affected.

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14 Reformation: If any provision of this License is held to be unenforceable, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable.

15 COPYRIGHT NOTICE
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

System Reference Document Copyright 2000-2003, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, Rich Baker, Andy Collins, David Noonan, Rich Redman, Bruce R. Cordell, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Modern System Reference Doument Copyright 2002, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Bill Slavicsek, Jeff Grubb, Rich Redman, Charles Ryan, based on material by Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Richard Baker, Peter Adkison, Bruce R. Cordell, John Tynes, Andy Collins, and JD Walker.

Swords of Our Fathers Copyright 2003, The Game Mechanics.

Mutants & Masterminds Copyright 2002, Green Ronin Publishing.

Unearthed Arcana Copyright 2004, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Noonan, Rich Redman.

Epic Meepoââ,¬â,,¢s forum posts at www.thecbg.org Copyright 2006-2007, E.W. Morton.

Cebexia, Tapestry of the Gods Copyright 2006-2007, the Campaign Builder's Guild.[/spoiler]

SilvercatMoonpaw

#21
October 24, 2006, 12:06:50 PM
Unique vs. archetype.

I always go with unique, or at least a great expansion of the concept.  My dwarves of Midgard still use the "live undeground, mine, smith" most of the rest of the stuff except for being unpersonable.  I then I took the idea that they had a lot of stuff and said "they would do something with all that stuff" specifically they would trade it, and if they dig so much then it's entirely possible that they dug through the mountains and found out what's on the other side.  Dwarves just have too much potential to be a boring race.  Midgard elves take the idea that elves live in the wild and determines that they'd be much more hardy than PHB elves.  Of course, I'm guilty of creating some races for that setting with little detail to them (kellen and sprite).

I agree that one of the greatest problems with archetypes is that people use them and then don't do anything more with them.  But I can sympathize with people who just don't have the creative energy to do everything detailed, and not everyone will be good at every aspect of world building.  We debate these issues but I hope everyone recognizes that.
I'm a muck-levelist, I like to see things from the bottom.

"No matter where you go, you will find stupid people."

Lmns Crn

#22
October 24, 2006, 12:15:20 PM
Quote...and not everyone will be good at every aspect of world building. We debate these issues but I hope everyone recognizes that.
Oh, absolutely. It's one reason why I love these kinds of discussions so much.

Everybody has their own strengths and weaknesses, of course. So I like to take the chance to talk shop with people whose strengths line up with my weaknesses, so I can learn from them and improve my writing skills.
I move quick: I'm gonna try my trick one last time--
you know it's possible to vaguely define my outline
when dust move in the sunshine
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