The Campaign Builder's Guild

inspired by a thread over at WotC, i decided to make my first approach to mechanics. the idea here is to make death less happenstance then what the current rules support, to allow for dramatic sacrifices.

Quote from: heroic sacrificeDuring combat, at the beginning of a characters turn, before they make n attack roll, they may opt for a +1/HD sacrifice bonus to both the attack roll and damage roll. Critical misses do not apply to this attack roll. If they choose this bonus, the character has -10HP at the end of the round, and cannot gain any HP in any way.

since this is my first attempt at crunch, i don't expect it to be very balanced, so every ounce of critique is well appreciated :)

Faustian life doesn't seem unbalanced to me at higher levels: it's pretty easy by then to have yourself resurrected at the cost of one level or even less. Actually, at lower levels it seems much more unbalanced, when resurrection methods are otherwise very hard to get your hands on.

Túrin

i would go with 500XP/HD, but i'm a little weary without knowing exactly how multiclassed characters would be affected differently then single classed characters.....

It would be a good rule to replace resurrection, rather than coexist with it.

as is, or with the 500XP/HD penalty?

Quote from: sdragon1984as is, or with the 500XP/HD penalty?

As is.

my personal favorite out of the two is heroic sacrifice...

the image of the good guy going up to the nigh immesurabley powerful evil guy, and giving everything it takes to keep such a monstrosity from going on....

i think i might edit it just a bit, to help perfect that image, but i think its an amazing storytelling device.

edit- made said change to Heroic Sacrifice...

Yes, that change is good.  For one thing it's easier to understand now.  These are neat ideas.  I assume there would also be a rule that you couldn't use both.  (of course heroic sacrifice's not-gain-back-hp-in-any-way would probably prevent that)  Allowing both would lead to munchkinism.

actually, thats why i included that part of Heroic Sacrifice. also, it really cheapens death as a personal sacrifice when you just come right back...

Are you automatically stable at -1 if you use Faustian Life? Would be ironic if you just died again and again until all your levels were gone...

With Heroic Sacrifice, you might want to include the impossibility of an automatic miss. Imagine the paladin in his final act, striking out with all of his considerable righteous might in the ultimate sacrifice, and then critical missing...

Which makes me think of an alternative: instead of +1 atk/dmg per HD, you just get an automatic critical hit. Problem is that this is very dependent on the weapon you use (all paladins will be using scythes from now on ;)). Thoughts?

Túrin

Quote from: TúrinAre you automatically stable at -1 if you use Faustian Life? Would be ironic if you just died again and again until all your levels were gone...

With Heroic Sacrifice, you might want to include the impossibility of an automatic miss. Imagine the paladin in his final act, striking out with all of his considerable righteous might in the ultimate sacrifice, and then critical missing...[/quote]Which makes me think of an alternative: instead of +1 atk/dmg per HD, you just get an automatic critical hit. Problem is that this is very dependent on the weapon you use (all paladins will be using scythes from now on ;)). Thoughts?

Túrin
[/quote]

the weapon dependance is one thing that makes me weary of this (although to be honest, that wasn't thought of until you mentioned it), but also that my way is more consistant.

your way:

pal 18 w/ scythe #1: 8 dmg and dies
pal 18 w/ scythe #2: 32 dmg and dies

my way:

pal 18 w/ longsword: +18atk/+18dmg
pal18 w/ scythe: +18atk/+18dmg

Quote from: sdragon1984if you notice, the idea of becoming stable is decidedly absent from the rules ;)

the devil, as they say, is in the details...

Ouch...

Quotei was going to object to that, but then i read the two letters before the word "possibility"...

thanks :)

im[/b]possibility! Ah, you're being mean here. Never mind then. :S

Quotethe weapon dependance is one thing that makes me weary of this (although to be honest, that wasn't thought of until you mentioned it), but also that my way is more consistant.

your way:

pal 18 w/ scythe #1: 8 dmg and dies
pal 18 w/ scythe #2: 32 dmg and dies

my way:

pal 18 w/ longsword: +18atk/+18dmg
pal18 w/ scythe: +18atk/+18dmg

Your way:

pally1: rolls a 2 and misses and does 0 damage and dies
pally2: rolls a 20 and does 32 damage and dies

My way:

pally1: does 10 damage and dies
pally2: does 20 damage and dies

(Note that the difference between a x2 multiplier and a x4 multiplier is a factor of 2.)

Túrin

Quote from: Túrin

Quote from: sdragon1984if you notice, the idea of becoming stable is decidedly absent from the rules ;)

the devil, as they say, is in the details...

Ouch...

yea, but i figure (and its possible that this might not be accurate figuring, so feel free to correct it) when the mechanics you're playing with deal with the ultimate destruction of a character, theres room to allow the loss of a level or three.

though, as i said, this is my first attempt at mechanics for all i know, that logic might not only break, but shatter the entire system...

Quote

Quotei was going to object to that, but then i read the two letters before the word "possibility"...

thanks :)

im[/b]possibility! Ah, you're being mean here. Never mind then. :S

Quotethe weapon dependance is one thing that makes me weary of this (although to be honest, that wasn't thought of until you mentioned it), but also that my way is more consistant.

your way:

pal 18 w/ scythe #1: 8 dmg and dies
pal 18 w/ scythe #2: 32 dmg and dies

my way:

pal 18 w/ longsword: +18atk/+18dmg
pal18 w/ scythe: +18atk/+18dmg

a PAL18 with 11STR and no bonus on his weapon, hits anything in MM on a roll of 12. at level 18, i would expect a paladin to have a higher STR, and some sort of bonus on his weapon.

although, if i made it +1.5/HD (rounded down), that wouldn't be much of an issue anymore, granting the PAL18 a +27 bonus.....

hell, even a PAL16 would hit a Balor....

On level 18 it won't matter much, I agree. But this should be usable at lower levels too, as it will be more interesting then. I for one feel that someone making the ultimate sacrifice should at least be pretty sure that his attack will hit.

Túrin

I dislike your Faustian Life, mainly because it seems pretty bland. Cheating death is nice, but simply cheating death is not what a Faustian deal is all about. Your idea strikes me as technically anti-Faustian, because it substitutes "Hey, I'm not dead yet after all!" for "In exchange for having my desires granted now, I'm really going to be screwed when my death eventually and inevitably happens." Your mechanic cheats death, the real Faustian one relies on the uncheatability of death to lend it drama.

I think I'd probably like it a lot better if the name were changed to reflect the mechanic a little more accurately. Call it Second Wind or It's Only A Flesh Wound or whatever, as long as it matches what the mechanics are doing. Unless of course a character using this mechanic is actually, literally bargaining with some kind of devilish power, of course.

That said, I really like what you're doing with this. Death is a present hazard for adventurers, but it's also a powerful storytelling device, which is what these mechanics acknowledge. I'm not entirely sold on the implementation, but the idea of giving players as storytellers a little more say about when their characters die is an idea I can agree with.