Creating a New System With a Purpose -- Fast and Epic

Ninja D! · May 09, 2011, 05:55:56 AM

[note]Consider the primary contents of this thread to be the 'long version' of this, mostly as an ordered brainstorm session. I will eventually include a document (probably a PDF) with the basic outline of the system. After that, there is a chance I may write a sort of 'too long, didn't read' version. That is, of course, only if enough interest is shown at this point to show me that it would be worth the effort to do either. [/note]This thread is to explain the basics (and, likely, a bit more) of a gaming rule system of my own creation. Also, it exists to brainstorm for more detailed aspects of the system as well as to solicit feedback on that which is presented here. Before truly getting into any part of the system itself, I will explain why I am designing it and what I hope to accomplish with it.
[spoiler=Here is a little bit of what I considered including in the first post...]This system is not for the soldier that cautiously looks out of the safety of his trench, only to quickly drop back down as the enemy fires at him. This system is for the Space Marine wading into battle, holding his trigger down, only taking the supporting hand off of his bolter long enough to drive a knife into the head of a Tyranid that comes to close.

This system is not for the special agent, executing a desperate operation that has been planned for months to steal secret plans. This system is for the James Bond type that punches someone in the face, takes the plans, then makes his escaped by riding an expensive boat through a wall of fire with a beautiful woman on his arm (or a handsome man, if he prefers, or even a beautiful woman and a handsome man. The point is when you're that awesome, you get what you want.)

This system is not for recreating NYPD Blue. This system is for becoming goddamn Robocop.

This system is not for the ordinary. This system is for the extraordinary.[/spoiler]
Why
First of all, I should state that my usual favored system (as I'm sure most here are aware by now) is GURPS. I feel that GURPS is great when trying to explain ideas in a well-balanced game system without compromising the idea itself. It is also the system that is quite likely the best for running a game in a world that is already made without having to change the setting or the rules of the game to make it work. It also works well when simply designing things or when planning for an ongoing campaign. GURPS falls a little short in other areas, however. Two of these are important for the why of this system.

1. Running shorter games, especially one-shots but also just short campaigns or extra long adventures. This is because many Advantages and Disadvantages in that system are designed to impact the game starting between adventures or to be used only a certain number of times per adventure or play session.

2. GURPS, being very simulationist, is also unable to easily handle things being really over-the-top (other than with Cinematic Skills). It can be done but it requires a lot more work, which is probably something you're looking to avoid when planning a one-shot.

What
Now I want to design a system that pretty much focuses on those two areas where I see GURPS as failing. In short, this system is made just for very over-the-top one-shot games. In addition to this, this system is really intended to be used online. This is because a precise goal is to eventually run a one-shot or short campaign / long adventure using this system in the CBG's IRC. With very simple modifications, this system will be able to be used offline but more on that will come later.

Now that all of that is out of the way, I can move on to more about the system itself. Keep in mind that what I am posting here is more or less intended to function like a System Reference Document. What I mean is that it is about the system and not precise application at this point. In other words, I'm keeping it setting neutral for now.

Ninja D! · May 09, 2011, 05:56:57 AM

The Core Basics
This system is based around the number three. As I see it, there are three reasons for this. From least important to most important, they are:
1. In part, the creation of this system was inspired by my Trigalactic Imperium setting.
2. It helps to emphasize the larger-than-life feel that I'm going for.
3. I think it can be just an interesting little gimmick to set the system apart in people's minds.
To this end, all checks are made using 3d100 (here's where this system being made for the internet really shows through). From there, it functions like many other systems; Roll 3d100 and compare the result to the stat you're using (an attribute, talent, or skill, but we'll get to that later). If the result is lower, you succeed, if the result is higher, you fail.

Now, all characters have three levels of stats, the highest of which has three stats within it. These levels, from the top down, are Attributes, Talents, and Skills. When you think it through, it should be pretty obvious when each of these represent but they will be discussed in greater detail a little further down. These different levels are important during character creation as the higher the level of the stat, the broader it is, and the more points it costs to purchase during character creation.

Attributes
The highest level of stat is the Attribute. There are three attributes, two of them are very simple and the other represents a unique aspect of this system.

The first Attribute is Physical. This should be pretty much self-explanatory. Physical is for anything that relates to the body or to physical action.

The second Attribute is Mental. This relates to the mind as well as most social related things.

The final Attribute is called, at least at this time, Epic. Epic is special in that is isn't used for certain things like Physical or Mental. Instead, a player can have their character choose to be (or attempt to be) epic. Doing this can take three different forms.
1. One use is attempting to do something really spectacular that lies outside the bounds of other Skills, Talents, or Attributes (or maybe in an overlapping area). For this use, the player roles against their Epic Attribute instead of anything else.
2. Another use is attempting to do something that a character wouldn't normally know how to do, without defaulting to the governing Attribute. Maybe a character doesn't really know how to fight with a sword (so they have no points in Talents or Skills related to fighting with a sword) but the situation calls for them to do just that.
3. The final possible use of Epic, is a character attempting to do something they already know how to do but not do it normally. This is for when a character needs to be really good at something right away. For this use, the character's Epic score is added to whatever Attribute, Talent, or Skill they were going to be rolling against. Obviously, this is likely to greatly increase their chances of success.

Talents
Talents represent a rather broad range of abilities. For example, swords or guns. Advanced Computer Use would also be an ability (in any setting where it makes sense, everyone is assumed to know the basics of computer operation). If you would be required to make a check against a Talent that your character has no levels in, that check will instead be made against 2/3 of the governing Attribute for that Talent.

Skills
Skills are very specific. For example, a certain kind of sword or a certain model of gun. Knowing how to hack a certain computer security program would also be a skill. You will never be required to make a check against a certain Skill. Check asked for by the GM will always apply to Talents or Attributes but skills are cheaper and can be used to get an edge.

Ninja D! · May 09, 2011, 05:57:37 AM

Character Creation
Character creation will generally be done using 300 points. The breakdown of what they can be used for is as follows;

1 point = 3 levels of Physical or Mental
6 points = 3 levels of Epic
1 point = 6 levels of any Talent
1 point = 9 levels of any Skill

Levels in Epic are essentially 2 points each but must be purchased 3 at a time.

You can purchase no more than 300 levels in any Attribute, Talent, or Skill. You could max out your Attributes but only at the expense of all specializing. On the other hand, you could have a vast array of Talents at high levels but have low Attributes.

I recognize that this could be a little time consuming. If I were to run a game with this system, I would provide templates for people to follow or just pregenerated characters (or even both).

Ninja D! · May 09, 2011, 05:57:54 AM

Here is what I need:
1. Ideas for talents. [spoiler=Current Talents]Melee Weapons, Ranged Weapons, Computer Use[/spoiler]
2. Ideas for skills. [spoiler=Current Skills]Rifles, Pistols, Shotguns, Assault Rifles, Bows, Swords, Axes[/spoiler]
3. Any general feedback you have.

sparkletwist · May 09, 2011, 05:32:22 PM

I support the aims of this system. I am all about, generally speaking, increasing the amount of awesomeness. I am also a fan of GURPS, that is, playing GURPS. I'm not such a fan of running GURPS, mainly because of the amount of complexity involved. I agree quite fully with two of the major shortcomings that you pointed out. In general, I'm not a fan of hugely simulationist systems, particularly when trying to play a game that is supposed to feel more over-the-top, which is what I enjoy. There's no need to worry about the finer details because the characters are cool badasses who won't get caught up in those details anyway.

The Physical/Mental break is very simple... and may be too simple. WoD (if simplified to this point) would break it down into Physical/Mental/Social, and this might work a little better, but it has its own shortcomings. Some possibilities would be breaking down physical power (strength) and physical speed (dexterity), or combining some element of social grace with dexterity (not being clumsy helps both times), or something of that sort. There would also seem to be a space for some sort of "resilience" stat, be it physical (constitution) or some sort of mental "willpower." I know that you don't want to complicate things too much, so I wonder if this couldn't be addressed in the Talent system. On the other hand, those seem to be a good bit more specific.

While I definitely like the idea of adding Epic as an attribute, I'm not sure how it would play, because it means, essentially, your character's capacity for "awesomeness" is quantified. I love what you can do with it, but the downside to this comes in the fact that it means there must be a necessary limit, and some characters, by mechanics, will be more capable of awesomeness than others.

Seraph · May 09, 2011, 08:30:40 PM

I'm not clear on how "Epic" would be used. Particularly on 1 and 3.

If I understand, Epic can be used to: Do something you can't do otherwise; Do something you know how to do BETTER; or to Do something that isn't in the rules.

Xathan · May 10, 2011, 03:29:43 AM

I've been working on a similarly goaled project called "Badass" for a bit now, but I really like where this system is headed and looking forward to seeing more. No real questions other than echoing Seraphine's questions - and adding one that just occurred to me. What's to keep a player from sinking all 300 points into Epic and just being able to do anything they wanted?

Ninja D! · May 10, 2011, 11:42:05 AM

Quote from: sparkletwistThe Physical/Mental break is very simple... and may be too simple.

I knew WoD would come up. Basically, since this is meant to be run in chat and such, it is my hope that anything more specific will be handled by roleplaying. Since this is for one-shots and short runs, I'm fine with it being very much simplified.

There are a couple of things that I didn't include above that I think could related to your other questions.

Health - Health is essentially your HP. It is your physical ability to take hits and the will to keep going combined. My plan, which sounds good in my head but so far has not testing, is that your health will be 2/3 Physical + 1/3 Mental. This will also function as your toughness or whatever, probably relating to poisons and should I ever add in a mechanic where you can be killed or knocked out instantly from a powerful enough hit. This way, the more weakened you become, the less you are able to resist things.

Defense - Defense is like you're armor class or whatever. It will reduce damage that you take and that sort of thing. It represents your awareness of your surroundings, your ability to react and adapt, as well as your ability to take the hits in a way that lets you keep going. My plan is for it to be 2/3 Mental + 1/3 Physical.

Quote from: sparkletwistWhile I definitely like the idea of adding Epic as an attribute, I'm not sure how it would play, because it means, essentially, your character's capacity for "awesomeness" is quantified. I love what you can do with it, but the downside to this comes in the fact that it means there must be a necessary limit, and some characters, by mechanics, will be more capable of awesomeness than others.

I realize now that I forgot to include this. Epic is to be used up to 3 times in a designated play time. That could be a session or an adventure or whatever. It has to be decided on in advance.

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumIf I understand, Epic can be used to: Do something you can't do otherwise; Do something you know how to do BETTER; or to Do something that isn't in the rules.

That's about right. Epic lets you, in theory, kick ass at something because the situation calls for it.

Quote from: Xathan WorldsmithWhat's to keep a player from sinking all 300 points into Epic and just being able to do anything they wanted?

They're free to max out Epic but they would do so at the expense of putting much anywhere else. Since Epic can only be used a limited number of times, that is likely to go very badly.

Thanks for the feedback. I didn't expect I'd get many, if any replies at all to this. I really appreciate it.

LordVreeg · May 13, 2011, 09:19:35 AM

Emulation vs Simulation.

AS to your guns point...why focus on the catagory of what they are vs what they do? In a simulation game, yes, they should be a sorted this way, with sub-skill expertise.
In an emulation game, maybe the better catagory would be 'shooting' or 'aiming'.
I mean, that's what many systems do with damage taken. We don't talk about resistance to shock and skeletal strength and pain management, we lump it all into a game emulation of 'ability to be danmaged and still function' and we often call it Hit points or some such thing.

Ninja D! · May 14, 2011, 05:29:22 AM

That is a very good point. I think that may be the best way to handle it in this situation.

I think I may get working on a rough draft SRD for this system very soon here. Hopefully the rest of the bugs will make themselves known when I put things together in an orderly fashion.

Ninja D! · June 13, 2011, 07:50:47 AM

I was thinking about this again. Actually, thinking about programing a character sheet for this into an OpenOffice spreadsheet. I should write it up properly.

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Creating a New System With a Purpose -- Fast and Epic

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