The Campaign Builder's Guild

Morrowind had atmosphere and a real sense of three-dimensional geography. Oblivion felt geographically flat, and its fantasy setting was conventional. (This is no judgment on the game as a whole, however)

I could forgive a hell of a lot in a game if it produced the sense of immersion that Morrowind did. That's why I love Shadow of the Colossus so much: you only ever did four things (ride, climb, shoot your bow, and stab giants in the head) but you really felt like you were somewhere while you did it.

If Skyrim can produce that kind of immersion I will play it for a million hours. Even if all I can do is jump, talk, and swing a big old stick.

EDIT: on the subject of SotC, no game I've played has made a horse seem so alive as Agro was. Hopefully the ones in Skyrim have decent AI and independent pathfinding.

I should probably try and find some of those great old games everyone is always talking about at some point...

I loved Morrowind (although I never completed it), but disliked Oblivion. The scaling system was arbitrary, the setting conventional, the skill system dull, and there was little true enjoyment to be gained from exploration. You didn't find yourself thinking "shit, this is an awesome place" very often, if at all.  

Quote from: Superfluous CrowI should probably try and find some of those great old games everyone is always talking about at some point...

I loved Morrowind (although I never completed it), but disliked Oblivion. The scaling system was arbitrary, the setting conventional, the skill system dull, and there was little true enjoyment to be gained from exploration. You didn't find yourself thinking "shit, this is an awesome place" very often, if at all.  

I thought it was ok... then I installed shivering isles and it pretty much stomped morrowind IMO. I wish they could swap those two so shivering isles was the big main expansive campaign and the oblivion gate one was just a little side thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQENnvkcC7I

'gasm

To quote a youtube viewer commenting on Arkham City:

"[Batman] then followed by Skyrim. The end of the year is the end of MY world. Fuck 2012"

Not to mention Uncharted 3, Dark Souls, Deus X, Gears of War, Max Payne...

Oh yeah. and the Witcher 2 for 360!

Also: what's the deal with the Elder Scrolls characters being prisoners? Is there any metaphysical backstory concerning that, or do you think it's merely a matter of convenience?

Witcher 2 is going to be on the 360? *glee*

I think the prisoner thing is just lazy writing. It works for having you start out with nothing exactly where they want you.

I don't think the Prisoner bit is lazy, I think its the easiest way of making each and every each characters' past meaningless, which allows greater focus on the here and now of the game. Plus, its tradition!

As for the trailer, I watched it live yesterday. Loved everything about it, especially the 2 Weapon Fighting. One thing that struck me was that it didn't look like he was blocking when using the 2 swords, so I wonder if you can only block with a shield now.

He visibly blocks with the left sword, just with horrible timing.

I'm excited about this game in so many ways. I'be been playing Oblivion, New Vegas and Red Dead Redemption all at once, so I've really got the free-roaming bug. (Oh how I wish someone would use RDR's RAGE engine to make an rpg... New Vegas looks so damn bland by comparison!)

Quote from: Ninja DWitcher 2 is going to be on the 360?

They're apparently bringing it out on the PS3 as well, but at a later date. Probably 2012.

To read into the prisoner thing a little bit more than one probably should, starting as a convict and becoming a hero emphasizes a kind of rags-to-riches arc, a dynamic which ultimately lies at the heart of almost all RPGs (adventure and gain experience to grow in power/wealth/status/ability).  As the stars/destiny seem to be important forces in the Elder Scrolls universe it also suggests a kind of predilection on the part of fate for diamond-in-the-rough chosen ones... if the character were born with a silver spoon in their mouth (see Fable III), you expect them to have an epic destiny and do great things.  Not so for a lowlife at the bottom of the barrel, heightening the drama.

I knew there had to be a reason why I always name my Elder Scrolls characters Aladdin.

(Seriously. Redguard thief. Rocking the ninja skillz)

>>if the character were born with a silver spoon in their mouth (see Fable III), you expect them to have an epic destiny and do great things. Not so for a lowlife at the bottom of the barrel, heightening the drama.

I actually prefer starting with the rich character; many if not most games seem to start one at the bottom of the barrel (e.g. Witcher, Elder Scrolls IV, Fallout:NV (weak beginning), etc.). Starting in a prison is trite.

Fallout 3 played a good medium- you are the child of someone important and then you have that happy life taken away from you.

I think the fall from grace, accompanied by building up to reattain something is a much better motivator. The person knows what glory has been theirs, so they need to work to attain the apple before their eyes.

Mass Effect 1 and 2 also had good ways to start the game; you know what you are capable of and you have things in your past to live up to in your future.

The Dwarven noble backstory in DA1 was likewise the best because it introduced more drama-- you wanted to get revenge, or redeem yourself, etc.

Characters who come from a life of privilege often have more to live up to and to discover than does a guttersnipe thief, since they don't know how the world really works.

>>I don't think the Prisoner bit is lazy, I think its the easiest way of making each and every each characters' past meaningless, which allows greater focus on the here and now of the game.

Which is really weak. Stories need a beginning a middle and an end. I'd rather my story have meaning to my character based on my character's experiences...to have some sort of locus to roleplay. Starting as a prisoner is only slightly better than "oh, I have amnesia!!!" The only good execution of amnesia that I've seen was Bioshock...and then it was mostly in retrospect as you find out WHY that's an interesting case. Bioshock II, in contrast, was blah and weak in its characterization and history.

It would be interesting to take the prison angle all the way and have your character be keyed to a criminal background story. Then it becomes a question of continued carnage or redemption. In the Elder Scrolls games you are most often "a wrongfully incarcerated hero". With A DESTINY of course.  

EDIT: I don't really know what to think of Skyrim yet... Free roaming is all well and good, but I need some kind of hook before I readily invest insane amounts of time in an RPG. Dragons alone aren't enough to pull me in. I'll probably try it at some point, though.

(the game I'm looking the most forward to is Bioshock: Infinite by the way. That game looks superb.)

>>It would be interesting to take the prison angle all the way and have your character be keyed to a criminal background story. Then it becomes a question of continued carnage or redemption

That would sound better (!) Not great, but better.

[blockquote=Light Dragon]The only good execution of amnesia that I've seen was Bioshock[/blockquote]
Have you ever played Planescape: Torment or Amnesia: The Dark Descent, and if so, what did you think of their handling of amnesia?

Todd Howard has pretty much come straight out and said the reason you are a prisoner is just tradition. Don't look too deeply into it it isn't there for the story it's there as a callback to the series itself. It's kind of the elder scrolls calling card so to speak.

Quote from: Steerpike[blockquote=Light Dragon]The only good execution of amnesia that I've seen was Bioshock[/blockquote]
Have you ever played Planescape: Torment or Amnesia: The Dark Descent, and if so, what did you think of their handling of amnesia?

I have been meaning to try Planescape, but I can not find it anywhere (I am avoiding Steam and GOG for now, but I may eventually purchase it online).

Regarding Amnesia, I have not played that either.