Look Ma, No Dice! [Discussion]

CoyoteCamouflage · July 14, 2011, 04:42:26 PM

The World is mostly about fulfillment or issues coming full circle, as it were. I might consider making it a critical. You don't just succeed at the challenge, you succeed spectacularly at whatever the task was: Extra damage, negative conditions applied to enemies, reduced DCs on tests for allies... it's basically a major boon up to the discretion of the GM, since normal critical hits will not exist. A +21 modifier would win most checks anyway, so why not add in some other benefits?

Major Arcana:

0 - The Fool - The Fool is a symbol of new beginnings and new journeys; leave behind the trappings of the old and begin something new. When played, the Fool's owner counts the number of cards in their hand, then discards them all. They then draw a number of cards equal to this number +1, to replace the Fool itself. This action may only be performed on a Player's turn. Playing the Fool does not count against a Character's Play limit.

21 - The World - The World symbolizes completion and fulfillment, the end result of an original difficulty or matter. It is an indisputable end to a trial. When played, the World is an automatic success. Not only is this a success, but it has such portents that it benefits those who stand with the character, or it harms those who stand against him or her. The GM should decide appropriate bonuses or penalties to provide to the character's friends or foes for the round during which this card has been played.

Minor Arcana - Suits:

Swords: Swords are the suit most closely tied to tense emotions and mental and physical conflicts. A Swords card may be used to force a target player to discard a number of cards equal to the number on the Swords card. The target chooses which cards to discard. However, this ability may only be used on your round, and only against another player or the DM. If used against the DM, discarded cards are shuffled into the DM's draw deck. You may not use a Swords card to discard any cards from your own hand. Using a Swords card in this way counts against a character's play limit.

Pentacles: Wealth has value, even when given away. Any Pentacles card can, during any player's turn, be played with that character's normal action, adding the card's bonus to the player's existing play value. This card does not count against the target character's card limit. Only one Pentacles card may be used to in such a way per player [Roll?] per turn.

Rods/Wands: Fiery and passionate, Wands may also be selfish. A card of Wands may be used to steal any card from another PC's hand and play it immediately. The target does not reveal their hand to the player of the Wand. The number of the Wand card used determines what cards will be shown. Any card (including Major Arcana) with a number value equal or lesser than the Wand card MUST be shown to the player who is stealing the card. The Wand card is discarded with no other effect, and its play in this manner counts against the character's maximum limit of played cards. The stolen card, once played, enters the discard pile of its original owner.

Cups: Due to the emotional and psychic nature of Cups, they allow us to cross the empty gulf that separates people, helping to form positive relationships and strengthen (or break) bonds. A Cups card may be used to allow any player to draw up to the number of cards specified on the card or the maximum hand limit, whichever is lower. This may only be used on other players or the DM. This ability does *not* count against a player's play limit, but only one Cups card may be played in this way per round.

I think the balance on these is pretty good, now that I sit to look at them, as all of them can only be used against other players-- for better or worse-- not on yourself. They also encourage a lot of interaction with other players during scenes, but I feel the abilities are unique enough that it would make players very cautious about simply tossing them away, as they all have a very specific use and benefit to confer to other players-- or to the GM opposing them. I think the card limits for characters helps keep these from being too powerful, since most of them count toward that limit; Pentacles can only be used once per player round, so that does not seem too much of a problem, either.

Steerpike · July 14, 2011, 05:27:58 PM

Those are perfect, I'm going to get to work integrating them!

EDIT: Oh and there is a reversal mechanic, it costs action points (see the Energy Points section) and causes a card to have a negative instead of a positive modifier. The idea is to use a reversal to save yourself from a blow or prevent an enemy from escaping or whatnot.

CoyoteCamouflage · July 14, 2011, 06:37:36 PM

Edited slightly for grammar and some rules clarification.

Changed Wands slightly, as I just realized that should someone else try to take one of my tarot cards-- even for a game-- I would probably freak out pretty hard. I don't expect it to matter to most people, but I think it's for the better anyway.

As for reversals, I meant for the actual cards-- many diviners read a different meaning from cards that are drawn upside down. It's a highly interpretive part, as some books don't even mention reverse readings, but I read reverses, so that's why I mentioned it.

Nomadic · July 14, 2011, 07:28:07 PM

That looks like a really awesome system steerpike. Right now I'm working on my own entry which is a dueling system that uses a variation of the rules for hearts with a standard playing deck.

Xathan · July 17, 2011, 01:13:25 AM

Oh man, so many ideas it's not even funny - but right now, a variation on blackjack or poker using Tarot cards is where I'm likely going to go. Which is probably going to prompt the creation of a setting to use this system. Which is going to result in yet another new world. Curse you, LC!

Superfluous Crow · July 19, 2011, 09:11:46 AM

This is the framework for what I'm working on. I think it could work as written, but hard to determine when you can't really playtest it. Anyway, I think it is an interesting and fairly original approach to resolution. The flavor could quickly be redesigned to represent members of a mythology or a pantheon, or simply astrological signs.

[spoiler=Manifest Resolution]
In this resolution system, nothing is random and everything is part of the Grand Plan. In addition to playing characters in a game, the players are pitted against the Architect (the GM) in a separate game to determine the fates of their heroes.

To succeed at anything he attempts, the player must simply achieve a positive Balance. Balance is calculated as the difference between the number of Boons and Curses the player has in front of him. If they are equal or the Balance is negative, the player loses.

Stranger things than curses are involved in the game of destiny, though, and players are wise to observe the celestial signs and astral entities which fate revolve around. For the worthy, the beings move to be in the right place at the right time.

The objective of any player is to gather as many Boons as possible while staying out of the Shadow. At the outset of a session, the 8 boons and 8 curses are divided as evenly between the players as possible, with the remainder going to the Architect. All other Entities (as the pieces are called) are put in a central pile called Oblivion. This setup is only performed at the beginning of the game, otherwise Entities stay where they are. When an Entity is Banished, put it in Oblivion.

Whenever a player performs an action of any sort he is afforded a number of Strands of Fate equal to his skill level. If the Architect currently has no Strands, he is afforded a number of Strands equal to the number of Boons he has in front of him, or 1, whatever is higher.

Each Strand can be spent to perform a Celestial Exchange or to call upon an Entity. If a Celestial Exchange is performed, the player can trade one of his Entities for any other Entity in play (not in Oblivion). If an Entity is called it is removed from Oblivion and put in front of any player, or the Architect.

Any Strands spent by the player are given to the Architect to spend later. Strands spent by the Architect are returned to the pool of unused tokens. The Architect moves first, then the player. They only get one chance to use as many Strands as they want and then the action is resolved.

Basic Entities

The Shadow
The Shadow is the most troublesome Entity of them all. While a player is under the Shadow he can never win, no matter how many Boons he possesses. His Balance always counts as negative.
The Shadow can be called for free, but only by simultaneously removing three Curses from the person who is to receive the Shadow. This neither requires consent nor for the Shadow to currently be in Oblivion, although the Shadow must be removed from its current location. The Shadow can never be exchanged, only called.

Boon
A Boon adds one point to the Balance of the player who possesses it. If the Architect possesses any number of Boons they apply to all players simultaneously, but afford him more Strands when he acts.

Curse
The opposite of the Boon. It deducts one point from the Balance. If the Architect possesses any number of Curses he can no longer call the Shadow, but the Curses apply equally to all players.

Manifest Destiny
The Manifest Destiny is the most powerful Entity as it ensures your immediate victory. You count your Balance as positive for that single action. You can call it for free, but it banishes all of the following entities to Oblivion: Boons and the Shadow.

Other Entities

Blind Warrior
Calling the Blind Warrior allows you to move one Entity (including the Shadow) from where the Blind Warrior was called to any other player, including yourself and the Architect. In addition, you are fervently protected from everything. You can't receive Boons, Curses or the Shadow as long as you are guarded by the Warrior.

The Lurker on the Threshold
The Lurker breaks ties to the hero's advantage. In addition, all communal Curses and Boons held by the Architect do not affect the player holding the Lurker. As an exception to the general rule, a player holding the Lurker can win while under the Shadow by getting a tie.

Cosmic Irony
If a player calls the Irony, count all of his Curses as Boons and vice versa. This also goes for calling the Three Fates or the Shadow. Irony and the Shadow can't be in front of the same player, and if the latter is called the former is removed. Cosmic Irony can only be exchanged between the players, not by the Architect.

The Ravenous Man
When a Ravenous Man is called or exchanged, an entity is immediately banished from the person now possessing the Man. When a person possessing the Man acts, the Ravenous Man eats another Entity. This continues until the player has no more Entities in which case the Man jumps to the player with most Entities, immediately devouring another one. The Shadow itself cannot be eaten, but it is powerless as long as the Man is fed.

The Three Fates
The Three Fates can be called for free, but only by simultaneously removing three Boons from the person who is to receive the Fates. A person holding the Three Fates can make three moves, moving any Entity,including the Shadow, and he can do this at any time, also when it isn't his action. When these three moves have been performed, the Three Fates are banished.

Golden Lie
If a player holds the Golden Lie reduce the player's pool of Strands by a number equal to his Balance before he acts, If the Balance is positive. If the Balance is negative add the same number of Strands to his pool. If a player calls it for himself the effect takes place immediately and he must be able to pay the necessary price. In addition to the above, the Balance counts for one higher while the Lie is held (+1 if positive, -1 if negative).

Chess-Entity Correspondence
As it stands, the resolution is meant to be played out with chess pieces, using the same number of pieces.

Piece	Black	White
Pawn	Curse	Boon
King	the Shadow	Manifest Destiny
Queen	-	Three Fates
Knight	Lurker on the Threshold	Cosmic Irony
Bishop	-	Golden Lie
Rook	Ravenous Man	Blind Warrior

[note]
This was designed with systems like FATE in mind which has skill levels and a margin of success. FATE points and aspects could well be used to grant additional Strands. Difficulty is adjusted by requiring a certain Balance (margin of success). Since the Shadow and Manifest Destiny work by changing the sign of the Balance, you can never get a higher Balance than 8 (9 with a Golden Lie).
[/note]
[ooc=From a D20 viewpoint]Players try to avoid the fumble (the Shadow) which is passed around between them while rolling above the DC (Boon) rather than below (Curse). Im times of crisis they can instead depend on natural 20 (Manifest Destiny).
[/ooc]

[/spoiler]

Steerpike · July 20, 2011, 02:34:16 AM

Looks really awesome!! Are you planning on adding Entities for the Black Queen and Bishop?

Nomadic · July 20, 2011, 03:43:20 AM

That's very cool crow, though I didn't quite understand it. You talk about chess pieces and passing them around and such, do you mean that they are handled like playing cards? Are they moved around on a chessboard? It's an interesting idea but the text is a little confusing. Overall I love the flavor of it though and how you use boons and curses in place of results on a dice roll vs DC.

In other news here's the system I'm working on for the contest. It uses playing cards in place of dice to handle rolls and in honor of our resident wine god I chose the guildschool system for it. Partly because it isn't hard to match the cards to a d100 roll (the most common guildschool roll).

[spoiler=Planar]
Planar
Planar is a dice replacement system for Guildschool which uses a set of playing cards in place of a regular dice roll to determine the outcomes of various actions. Just like with the standard dice version of Guildschool, Planar is a roll under (or rather draw under) system where lower numbers are generally better. The game is played with a deck in the center of the table with each player drawing from it as is appropriate to calculate their results during gameplay. Additionally the deck contains all four suites (referred to as the four houses) with each suite having certain abilities as well as special face cards which can be used to cause certain effects.

Materials:
- Standard Celtricia playing materials (except for dice)
- Shuffling Machine (optional, but very useful)
- Standard 52 card playing deck

Using the Deck:
Whenever anything would make anyone roll one or more dice they instead draw from the deck using the following rules depending on which kind of dice they would be rolling. After a roll series (a skill check, attack/defense roll, or anything else that would constitute a single roll of one or more dice in guildschool) is complete the cards are immediately shuffled back into the deck for the next roll. So if you were to roll an attack roll of 2d8+10/1d6 you would draw in order (1d8, 1d8, 1d6), then shuffle all drawn cards back into the deck.

d100
The most common roll in Guildschool uses the full deck exactly as it is set up with the roller handling the cards much like they would use 2d10 to roll a percentile (with the first roll being the tens place and the second the ones). The player draws two cards and sets them down in order with the first card being the tens place and the last card being the ones place. Card values are based on the number shown on them with the Ace being equal to 1 and the Ten equal to 0, a double Ten draw (0 - 0) is equal to 100. The Jack, Queen, and King cards are also used but grant special qualities to a roll as described below (Section: d100 special cards).

d12 (d6/d3)
For a roll of one or more d12 dice the roller draws a single card with the Ten being equal to Ten, Jack equal to Eleven, and Queen equal to 12. Kings are discarded (after which the player then draws again until they get a card worth 12 or less). This can also be used to handle a roll of a d6 by drawing a card and dividing the result in half and rounding up. It may also be used to roll a d3 by drawing a card, dividing the result by 4 and rounding up.

d10 (d20/d5)
For a roll of one or more d10 dice the roller draws a single card from the deck with the Ten being equal to Ten and Jacks, Queens, or Kings being discarded (after which the player then draws again until they get a card worth 10 or less). This can also be used to handle a roll of a d20 by drawing a d2 followed by a d10 (with a roll of 1 on the d2 equal to 0 while a roll of 2 is equal to 1; a roll of 1 - 10 being equal to a 20) as well as a roll of a d5 by drawing a card and dividing the result in half and rounding up.

d8 (d4)
For a roll of one or more d8 dice the roller draws a single card from the deck, discarding any card greater than an 8 (after which the player then draws again until they get a card worth 8 or less). This may also be used to roll a d4 by drawing a card, dividing the result in half and rounding up.

d2
Draw cards as if you were rolling a d100 and divide the resulting draw such that any draw resulting in a value between 1-50 is equal to a roll of 1 while a draw resulting in a value between 51-100 is equal to 2. Unlike a d100 roll however, a d2 roll does not use Special cards. Discard any Jacks, Queens, or Kings you draw and draw a new card.

d100 Special Cards
Anytime you would draw a d100 you have a chance to draw a special modifier card, these are the Jack, Queen, and King of all four suites. If you draw one while making your "roll" you must decide whether to keep it and use its ability or to discard it. If you choose to keep a modifier card it may not be swapped out for any modifiers that you happen to draw after. If after attaching a modifier to your draw you draw another modifier, you must discard it. As modifier cards do not count towards your roll value you must continue to draw cards until you have two cards with values between 0 and 10 discarding all extra modifier cards you draw.

Modifiers embody the aspects of certain Celtrician Planars and grant you the favor of their connected Deity. Use the following chart to determine the effects drawn modifiers have on your roll.

d100 matching suites
Additionally while making a roll if your two value cards happen to be of matching suites (known as houses) they confer a special effect to the roll. The four suites represent the four elemental houses (Air, Earth, Fire, and Water) and their effects match their houses.

[/spoiler]

Anyhow that's how it looks so far, I'm still hammering out the effects of special face cards as well as matching suites and trying to tie them into their respective houses or planars and give them useful yet balanced abilities. Perhaps I should ask Norm for his thoughts on what would best fit.

Superfluous Crow · July 20, 2011, 04:55:41 AM

Thanks Steer. The two pieces you mentioned will be assigned their own Entities in the near future and they are currently going by the WIP names Devil's Bargain and the Weaver. The Bargain allows a narrow escape from any situation, but at some other price, while the Weaver is a blank slate and a name for now.

I'm sorry to hear it is a confusing read, Nom. I think what I should make more clear is that every player has a pool of entities (represented by chess pieces) in front of him which he is said to possess or hold. When an exchange is performed, or an entity is moved, it goes into some other player's pool. When it is banished it goes into the common pool, called Oblivion. The Balance is calculated by the difference between Boons and Curses in his pool, but the pool and Balance can easily be modified by other present Entities.

I'm looking forward to seeing the special powers of your system.

Superfluous Crow · July 20, 2011, 05:00:58 AM

LC, can't we remove the one paragraph limitation? I could probably boil the basic idea of my system down to a single paragraph, but without the extra fluff it would be rather dull...
Alternatively, I can make a single paragraph and an example of a full write-up.

Nomadic · July 20, 2011, 05:09:29 AM

Quote from: Superfluous CrowLC, can't we remove the one paragraph limitation? I could probably boil the basic idea of my system down to a single paragraph, but without the extra fluff it would be rather dull...
Alternatively, I can make a single paragraph and an example of a full write-up.

I'm with SC here. It seems that neither him, steerpike, or myself fall within the limit and I think that in order to fit within the limit we'd have to destroy alot of the interesting fluff that makes our ideas interesting as well as the layout which makes our systems easy to read. Personally I think the limit should just be a soft limit of about a page or two in length. Short enough to make an easy read, long enough to make an interesting read.

Quote from: Superfluous CrowI'm looking forward to seeing the special powers of your system.

I'm working on it, it should be an interesting challenge to tie the Celtrician gods and houses to their appropriate cards.

Lmns Crn · July 20, 2011, 07:13:35 AM

Quote from: Superfluous CrowLC, can't we remove the one paragraph limitation? I could probably boil the basic idea of my system down to a single paragraph, but without the extra fluff it would be rather dull...
Alternatively, I can make a single paragraph and an example of a full write-up.

Here is what I need:
1.) "This is my resolution device. [words]"
2.) "This is why it works well with my game. [words]"

Make a pitch. You don't need to write up a system to the point where it's fully usable, you just need to let me know why, for this game, I'd want to use it.

If you absolutely need to go over a paragraph I'm not going to disqualify your entry or anything, I set that limit because I don't want to have to read thirty novels.

Nomadic · July 20, 2011, 07:25:35 AM

Quote from: Luminous CrayonYou don't need to write up a system to the point where it's fully usable

You do realize this is The CBG right? Over-accomplishment is our middle name. :)

As long as I'm not disqualified though I think I'll do mine like I am now. However, for your sake I'll throw in a short tl;dr version at the top that gives the gist of it.

CoyoteCamouflage · July 21, 2011, 02:07:41 AM

I think I may need to get my feet wet and work on something for this, if only because there's a gap I really want to see filled-- the random factor.

There is some really cool and awesome stuff being worked on here, but most of them seem very... strategic or tactical. I like random chance, even if it does work out to bite me in the arse more often than be helpful.

Now, how to make that work-- without dice? Hrm. I'm leaning towards Runes, but I'm thinking that we have the occult stuff pretty well covered right about now.

To my junk drawer!

*dig! dig! dig!*

Ok, so, aside from enough anti-hystamines to keep me rolling through piles hay without so much as a sniffle, some matches, and some really strange novelty soap I got at a convention last year, I don't really think I've found anything useful...

Except matches. Because matches are always fun! :D

Nomadic · July 21, 2011, 02:38:34 AM

Quote from: CoyoteCamouflageI think I may need to get my feet wet and work on something for this, if only because there's a gap I really want to see filled-- the random factor.

There is some really cool and awesome stuff being worked on here, but most of them seem very... strategic or tactical. I like random chance, even if it does work out to bite me in the arse more often than be helpful.

Now, how to make that work-- without dice? Hrm. I'm leaning towards Runes, but I'm thinking that we have the occult stuff pretty well covered right about now.

To my junk drawer!

*dig! dig! dig!*

Ok, so, aside from enough anti-hystamines to keep me rolling through piles hay without so much as a sniffle, some matches, and some really strange novelty soap I got at a convention last year, I don't really think I've found anything useful...

Except matches. Because matches are always fun! :D

Actually the system I'm working on is chance based like dice.

The Campaign Builder's Guild

News:

Look Ma, No Dice! [Discussion]

CoyoteCamouflage

Steerpike

CoyoteCamouflage

Nomadic

Xathan

Superfluous Crow

Steerpike

Nomadic

Superfluous Crow

Superfluous Crow

Nomadic

Lmns Crn

Nomadic

CoyoteCamouflage

Nomadic