Versatile Gothic Space Setting

Humabout · August 17, 2011, 07:10:17 PM

I'm pulling together ideas for a science fiction setting that is probably best described on a whole as "gothic space opera", although I'm trying to steer clear of WH40K territory. I'm looking at something with bits of transhumanism, space travel, mystery, wonder, exploration, and lots of grandeur. It should generally paint a pretty bleak picture of humanity, but at the same time have plenty of potential for swashbuckling and such. I'd like it to capable of supporting military action, action-adventure, monster hunting, conspiracy theories, politics and espionage, crime drama, exploration, etc.

That's what I'd like, anyway. I just want to open discussion on things that would make or break such a setting and have a place to post ideas as they occur.

A word on technology: I'm generally assuming some sort of gravity manipulation, reactionless STL drives, and FTL stardrives being available. I'm iffy on the existence of intelligent aliens (outside of conspiracies, of course!) but the galaxy will appear to be full of lifeforms. AIs will exist, but they won't be creative or even particularly volitional outside of the orders given them, and genetic engineering of humans will exist almost exclusively to prevent disease - not enhance humans; enhanced humans will likely be stigmatized.

I'll post more as it comes. Thanks in advance!

Mason · August 17, 2011, 11:03:18 PM

Hi. Welcome to the Forums!

Gothic Space Opera is certainly an intriguing term. It looks like you've already pinned down the core tone of the setting and how you want the adventures to develop.

I'm curious as to how you would develop a universe without the existence of aliens. (outside of conspiracies...btw what clues or phenomena spark these conspiracies?) I'm a little perplexed by "the galaxy will appear to be full of lifeforms".

A thought just now, maybe humans have evolved differently in different parts of the universe...could make for interesting tension/technological necessities etc.

Good luck, looking forward to see this develop.

LordVreeg · August 17, 2011, 11:38:44 PM

I like 'Gothic'...let's move forward here...

Xathan · August 18, 2011, 12:31:58 AM

The Gothic part is interesting, especially since you're not wanting to do Warhammer 40K "Everything is super ultra dark all the times and everything wants to kill everything so unless you're one of the super-powerful god-men or non-humans you might as well slit your wrists and be done with it" tone. (I dislike Warhammer 40K).

From what you've described with the word Gothic, you're looking for something dark but not depressing, in it's own way awe inspiring like the gothic architecture. However, from what you described in what you want in the setting (Easy travel, iffy on aliens, AI's non-threatening, genetic engineering being used for medicinal purposes only, etc) it sounds like a pretty upbeat commentary on humanity. What do you see making the setting darker to fit the Gothic tone you have in mind with those factors in place?

Steerpike · August 18, 2011, 02:22:49 AM

Gothic usually implies supernatural powers at work, or at least terrifying and irrational ones (madness, disease). Will there be psychics, magi, demons, ghosts, or any occult stuff, or is that too close to the 40K mentality? If not, which parts of the Gothic will come through most strongly? Seems like mad AIs, rampant genetic grotesquery, unfathomable alien intelligences, and horrific plagues are out... where's the horror come in?

EDIT: Crazy religious fanaticism is also a common Gothic trait... again, is that too close to 40K?

Kalontas · August 18, 2011, 05:53:58 AM

Must... stop myself... from complaining... about bleakness.

Humabout · August 18, 2011, 05:52:58 PM

The "gothic" can easily be supplied by dwelling on humanity's more base tendencies (war, backstabbing, neglecting the needy, etc.). I'm not against some religious fanaticism, but I'm not looking to go all gungho with it, like in WH40K (I am a fan, but a lot of it bugs, me, too, so I'm stuck avoiding too many similarities so as to avoid the comparison).

"Resplendent with life" can easily mean microorganisms, plants, insectish things, animalish things, etc. Just nothing that appears intelligent in the way that humans are. Also, I prefer to keep intelligent aliens, volitional AI, and the like off limits generally, so that their occassional presence or hinted presence can serve as a source of horror.

I find horror (and as a result, aspects of gothic romance) to be a focus on the unknown and hints at what horrifying truth might explain it. Frex, implying the existence of aliens with unfathomable goals can be more horrifying than meeting a little grey guy you can waste with one good swing of a frying pan. You can't shoot implications, and let's face it. Humanity would probably shoot any malicious aliens it knew about.

I should also mention that I'm not expecting humans to have really colonized the entire Milky Way. They have probably colonized a few hundred worlds in the local vicinity of Sol. The wonderful politics of that mass of humanity will likely provide plenty of room for horror in and of itself. Recall that many of the scenes described in some of the most poignant gothic novels were drawn from real-world events of the time.

So those are current thoughts. I'll be posting more as it continues to stew and you prod me with questions.

[EDIT]
I should also mention that while I intend to avoid recreating WH40K, it's worth mentioning that WH has managed to bundle up just about every trope in existence, so truly avoiding it would be impossible. Still, I am certainly not looking to recreate it. I could as easily describe Dune or even The Chronicles of Riddick as "gothic space opera", so I feel there is enough wiggle room to do this successfully.

Xathan · August 19, 2011, 12:02:24 AM

QuoteI should also mention that I'm not expecting humans to have really colonized the entire Milky Way. They have probably colonized a few hundred worlds in the local vicinity of Sol.

Okay, this part I have to comment on. How advanced is terriforing, and how large an area do you mean by "local vicinity"? The Orion Arm is a pretty big area, but there is very little evidence to suggest a large number of terrestrial planets within it - much less ones capable of sustaining earth-like carbon-based life. Unless you plan to have very, very advanced terriforming techniques, they're going to have to spread very far apart.

Plus, for humans to be the only intelligent species and to have colonized "hundreds" of worlds we're talking about a massive population and time - let's assume for a moment each colonized world has 100 million inhabitants (less than that and I fail to see any point in moving to a new world, considering how large a world is). With a modest estimate of hundreds being 200 planets, that's 20 billion people off Earth - and they'd barely be using the available land/resources of the colonized worlds.

I don't think you need more than a few dozen worlds for a setting like this - unless you want to go even more Soap Opera than I had initially thought. Granted, the idea of hundreds of smaller, scattered colonies is interesting, but feels better for a Western Soap Opera than a Gothic one.

So I guess my questions are as follows: how large are the colonies, why are they so large/small, how many are there, are the worlds terraformed or naturally life-sustaining, do they include moons of various gas giants, and how fast does your FTL go (note that "Speed of Plot" is a perfectly acceptable answer to this question), and finally: how hard do you want the science in this science fiction to be?

O Senhor Leetz · August 19, 2011, 09:42:24 AM

but colonies don't have to be based on the planet itself. massive scaffold-cities floating in space could be all there is to a single colony, their only reason for existance being to extract something worth while from the planet: rare elements, energy, basic elements etc.

This would make sense if, in fact, few planets would be hospitable to mankind, and therefore the need for resources would be at a premium. We are already starting to have certain resource issues on Earth today, and out population is still under 7 billion in total.

Think Cloud City, but with your gothic tone.

Ninja D! · August 19, 2011, 12:54:50 PM

I'm having a hard time understanding how this:

Quote from: Xathan Of Many Worlds(I dislike Warhammer 40K).

I thought you were describing why 40k was awesome, how it wonderfully captured the hopeless feeling of dark ages in the future, and GRIMDARK RAH RAH RAH...but what do I know?

Steerpike · August 19, 2011, 01:00:17 PM

One frequent feature of the Gothic is ruins - heck, they inspired the entire genre's creation. Maybe there are worlds where the aliens are long dead but their ruins and terraforming efforts remain. Perhaps human colonists live in the shells of the defunct alien cities? Might be a good way to have aliens remaining creepy/mysterious.

Xathan · August 19, 2011, 01:11:25 PM

Quote from: Ninja D!I'm having a hard time understanding how this:
Quote from: Xathan Of Many Worlds(I dislike Warhammer 40K).
I guess I wasn't be sarcastic enough. :P don't get me wrong, Warhammer is a brilliantly done setting and lord knows I'm a fan of darkness myself, but 40K takes it to 11 - there's dark, and then there's bleak, and while bleak can work, for me it just kills it - the setting is far too grim for my tastes, and I like dark settings to have some kind of hope (most of the time - Lovecraftian settings are the typical exception to this.) Part of the problem for also is the power - I don't like ______ is the absolute best/most dangerous/nastiest __________ in the UNIVERSE, which is a Warhammer trope.

However, if you want to discuss this further it might need its own thread, don't want to hijack this guy's campaign setting.

Humabout · August 19, 2011, 02:16:59 PM

So much to reply to. A few responses off the top of my head (and thanks for provoking some more thought):

FTL travels at the speed of plot, at this point, for sure. I haven't even begun to place worlds yet, as I'm still sifting through the HIP charts for useful stars (and I must say there are a freakin ton within 500 ly, so I suppose that's the initial shell I'm running with).

"Colonies" refers to any colonization effort. Most are terrestrial worlds where humans can either exist without technological help, or they rely on some degree of technology. Terraforming really isn't a reality, since, well, it takes WAY too long.

Colonies range in population, but most worlds aren't completely populated. In fact, a good many are little more than giant ranches where they raise and sell animals for meat or food crops. Others are industrial mining centers. Some are trading posts, etc. Populatiosn vary greatly with the nature of the world and how old it is. I haven't really worked out proper population figures. I'm sort of assuming colonization has been going on for a couple hundred years, though. Enough generations for "natives" to no longer feel like immigrants to their new world.

And Steerpike, that's a freaking awesome idea. Whether or not that works its way into here or not, I might borrow it for other ventures.

O Senhor Leetz · August 19, 2011, 03:42:26 PM

well, I think the point we were all making about colonies was that inhabitable, earth-like worlds are excedingly rare. Like, more than I can explain with words. As far as I know, we haven't found one thats even close and scientists seem to get excited if they find a dingly little rock where the equator is as hot the north pole in January.

While I can only speak for myself, I will suspend my disbelief for FTL, laser beams, psionics, and even aliens way before I will be able to accept that a single solar system has 3 planets that can sustain life.

Humabout · August 19, 2011, 06:07:59 PM

Quote from: SeÃ±or Leetzwell, I think the point we were all making about colonies was that inhabitable, earth-like worlds are excedingly rare. Like, more than I can explain with words. As far as I know, we haven't found one thats even close and scientists seem to get excited if they find a dingly little rock where the equator is as hot the north pole in January.

I have a lot of contentions with this. We are unable to detect smaller worlds because we lack the equipment to detect such minute wobbles in a star's position, and the luck of happening to be staring right down the edge of the solar system so that it's planets actually traverse the portion of the star we view is miniscule. To say that finding habitable planets is virtually impossible based on our insufficient means of detecting them is like saying that humans cannot break the sound barrier because we can't run fast enough to do it.

That said, the recent Hiparcos survey cataloged over 33,312 stars within 500 light-years of earth (excluding Sol). What you are suggesting is that it is more likely to flip a quarter 15 times (2^15 = 32,768)and get heads every single time than to find another habitable planet within 500 light-years of Earth. I'm just trying to put into perspective the statement you've just made.

Personally, I find it perfectly reasonable to assume there are habitable worlds out there. If you need an example of worlds that are close to habitable that scientists have found, despite all impediments, NASA posted this article on September 29, 2010.

</rant>

For future reference, I am stipulating, as the greatest science fiction authors we've seen have often done, that there are habitable worlds aside from Earth. My apologies for the tirade, but such nitpicking is disruptive and unproductive.

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Versatile Gothic Space Setting

Humabout

Mason

LordVreeg

Xathan

Steerpike

Kalontas

Humabout

Xathan

O Senhor Leetz

Ninja D!

Steerpike

Xathan

Humabout

O Senhor Leetz

Humabout