The Dying Earth Subgenre - Your Thoughts

Magnus Pym · October 30, 2011, 04:41:38 PM

It's very good, no doubts. :)

Weave · October 30, 2011, 08:52:45 PM

Quote from: Steerpike
Quote from: WeaveI think far too many of them revolve around the idea that the world is cast in shades of grey and black and brown; I want a dying world with color and vibrancy and a general lack of the term "wastes" or "wastelands" (I'm guilty of this myself).
I'm trying for some of this in the Cadaverous Earth... not sure if I always succeed. I want patches of colour - bilious greens and sanguine crimsons, anyway.

I can assure you that just because I think too many of them rely on such sepulchral tones doesn't mean that their aren't really, really good ones that do it well anyways :wink:.

Xathan · October 31, 2011, 10:29:27 AM

I really should revive my Verdant Apocalype setting -

Quote from: Weave
Quote from: Steerpike
Quote from: WeaveI think far too many of them revolve around the idea that the world is cast in shades of grey and black and brown; I want a dying world with color and vibrancy and a general lack of the term "wastes" or "wastelands" (I'm guilty of this myself).
I'm trying for some of this in the Cadaverous Earth... not sure if I always succeed. I want patches of colour - bilious greens and sanguine crimsons, anyway.

I can assure you that just because I think too many of them rely on such sepulchral tones doesn't mean that their aren't really, really good ones that do it well anyways :wink:.

Some of the best apocalypse/dying earth settings use the waste/wasteland trope very well...but I do agree it become very repetitive. It's like fantasy always including elves.

I think the trick is making your wastes more than "Barren Soil/Dust/Sand with some rocks." What I'm going to try and do for Shades and Dust is include wastes filled with toxic mushrooms, cities overwhelmed by sickly purple vines, literal junkyards with the debris of the old civilization spread about it, and areas where pulsating biomass covers the landscape - enough to keep the terrain varied, but still retain the overall idea of "wastes."

Also, at some point I really should revisit my Verdant Apocalypse setting. I (not too humbly) think that was one of my best ideas - an apocalypse of life gone rampant, as opposed to it dying.

LD · October 31, 2011, 10:39:42 PM

>>Also, at some point I really should revisit my Verdant Apocalypse setting. I (not too humbly) think that was one of my best ideas - an apocalypse of life gone rampant, as opposed to it dying.

Like that one area in Polycarp's clockwork jungle? I seem to recall a portion of it was like that...if you're looking for inspiration. (sorry for the vagueness).

Steerpike · October 31, 2011, 10:56:48 PM

Quote from: XathanAlso, at some point I really should revisit my Verdant Apocalypse setting.

I'm pretty sure I remember reading about that one back on the old Wizards boards, way before I joined the CBG. You were a regular there, right Xathan?

Xathan · October 31, 2011, 11:51:49 PM

Yup! In fact, Xeviat's comments on Verdant Apocalypse is what got me to join the CBG way back in the day.

Kindling · November 01, 2011, 07:44:22 AM

Not to contribute to or anything, but I also remember Verdant Apocalypse from the Wizards boards. My memories of it are hazy, but I do remember thinking it was cool.

LordVreeg · November 01, 2011, 09:05:55 AM

It is also possible to include part of this in a setting.

A few of my Pcs have visiting the delvan isles, where the good guys sort of won, but barely, as the isles are mainly washed under water now; or ish isle, where the zombie cults actually rule the isle. Or the worst, ruined gesana, where the mad saints battled until the undead actually won. all of these are actually the end results of older campaigns transported to celtricia, but all are dead or dying, or on life support.

O Senhor Leetz · November 01, 2011, 09:31:46 AM

i dont know much about Verdant Apoc, but that seems less dying earth than a type of alternative apocalyptic settings, as a lush, albeit overgrown world isnt exactly "dying".I would argue dying world settings is, well, about the world failing, the natural things that use to be stop working or decay, not essentially about apocalypse or some type of armageddon.

Superfluous Crow · November 01, 2011, 10:04:35 AM

That comment begs the question: how different is the dying earth genre from the post-apocalyptic genre in tone and elements?

Xathan · November 01, 2011, 10:24:15 AM

I think dying earth focuses on more of a gradual, but inevitable decline, while post apocalype is characterized by a sudden diasterous event that reshaped the world for the worse. That doesn't mean that the two are exclusive - the aftermath of an apocalypse can become a dying earth as people and life struggle to survive, but it could also flourish in the wake of the apocalypse into a vibrant Earth again.

O Senhor Leetz · November 01, 2011, 10:27:25 AM

Quote from: Xathan Of Many Worlds
I think dying earth focuses on more of a gradual, but inevitable decline, while post apocalype is characterized by a sudden diasterous event that reshaped the world for the worse. That doesn't mean that the two are exclusive - the aftermath of an apocalypse can become a dying earth as people and life struggle to survive, but it could also flourish in the wake of the apocalypse into a vibrant Earth again.

couldnt have said it much better myself. So then the key difference is both the pace of the downward change - as I dont think it would be sensible to argue an Apoc. to be a good thing -gradual versus sudden. Also, the fact that in a post-apoc setting the "end" has already happened, where as in a DE setting, it has yet to.

Kindling · November 01, 2011, 10:27:42 AM

Quote from: Superfluous Crow
That comment begs the question: how different is the dying earth genre from the post-apocalyptic genre in tone and elements?

Well, to make a broad generalisation, I'd say that post-apocalypse tends to be set nearer to our own times, after a major catastrophic event or series of events have brought the structures of civilisation down and caused a social-economic-technological regression to come about either overnight or otherwise relatively quickly, whereas dying earth tends to be set in a far more distant future where more gradual change has caused a similar regression to occur over a longer period of time. In dying earth the apocalypse is slowly ongoing, in post-apoc it has happened, was over quickly, and we are dealing with the aftermath.
Tone-wise, though, the divergence doesn't seem to be so clear.

EDIT: Beat me to it :(

O Senhor Leetz · November 01, 2011, 10:30:30 AM

I would also say its a matter of mechanics and not tone. As mentioned, in a post-apoc. or even a pre-apoc. setting, the chance is sudden and often unexpected, where as in a DE setting, the change is not sudden and is expected. Grammatically, using the word dying as opposed to dead, signifies that the death is happening at this very moment.

Kalontas · November 19, 2011, 08:39:45 AM

(two weeks are not necromancy, are they?)

I'm not a fan of "dying earths". I don't feel compulsed to do anything in those worlds, because if everything is already dying, what is the point? It's all gonna die soon anyway. Of course, I can utilise the "world is about to end, stop it" trope just as much as everyone, but having a world that is just bleak and beyond redemption destroys any chance of interest from me. I love the settings that give you infinite possibilities of realising your destiny and chance to actually shape the future. If you feel like being a dig and ruining all of that future, you can go ahead and do it - but you can do so much more than just pointless, mindless destruction - you can create.

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The Dying Earth Subgenre - Your Thoughts

Magnus Pym

Weave

Xathan

LD

Steerpike

Xathan

Kindling

LordVreeg

O Senhor Leetz

Superfluous Crow

Xathan

O Senhor Leetz

Kindling

O Senhor Leetz

Kalontas