The Campaign Builder's Guild

I've been struggling for a few days to condense my notes into some kind of narrative, but eventually realized that my desire to make every piece of writing look like an academic essay may be counterproductive to the actual purpose of this post - that is, to convey my view on your setting.  A setting which, by the way, was a real challenge for me; I'm very much a big-to-small worldbuilder, and Over Under proceeds from the exact opposite point.

The style of your writing, correspondingly, is a series of details - you touch on races, places, concepts, organizations, and so on.  The more you add, the more of Over Under is revealed, but in some cases this detail-writing leaves gaps that beg an explanation.  For instance, there's an overwhelming emphasis on the people at the top (aristocracy) and those at the bottom (those with Shading, people in the Mourning Quarter, and other unfortunates).  I'm left wondering about the people in the middle, who presumably provide most of the labor and materials for not only the tower-building but everything else the nobles engage in.  They may not be as curious and bizarre as the nobility, but one presumes that an adventurer in Over Under is going to be spending a not-insignificant amount of time interacting with these kind of people - at the very least, shopkeepers and such.  Do the guilds essentially rule on the ground, and if so, how do they interact with one another?  Do the nobles ignore the people on the street or are they potential competitors with each other (or with the guilds!) for influence and control over quarters and neighborhoods?  The former seems more likely given the aloof, elitist tint you've given to the aristocracy, but it also seems like nobles could potentially find avenues of competing with other nobles by putting pressure on various craftsmen and merchants to only sell luxuries and fine goods to them.  Obviously the nobles wouldn't do this sort of thing personally, but one gets the feeling they have plenty of intermediaries to handle such things for them.  There's also the question of where the nobles get the resources to participate in their great game - the Vivectii have trade interests, but is this true of all nobles or do they have alternative sources of income?  You've said that the middle/lower class controls the farmland, so presumably that's not an answer.  I think this question eventually ties into the one you ask on the first page, "why do they need the nobles?"

I think at this point I'm just going to note specific things and give my comments and impressions.

Raznathas - I adore the idea of "maturing" based on the creature they consume.  One question I have is WHY Razi-men are accepted so easily into society - Razi are "formidable foes" and "nasty creatures," yet a Razi-man noble will be welcomed into society even though he - by definition - murdered and ate another noble.  It seems sort of contrary to how you'd expect people to behave if a four-eyed humanoid introduced himself as the guy who just sucked the guts out of your neighbor, even if you weren't particularly fond of said neighbor.  The Molochie are "subject to racial prejudice," so it's not as if Over Under society is simply endlessly welcoming.  Is there some sort of tradition or law that makes people respect Razi-men, or are they just afraid that if they don't they'll be eaten?

Speaking of nobles, you mentioned you were trying to think of alternative names for them.  I assume it would be something related to verticality - maybe Skygazers, or "Gazers" for short.  Alternately, Cloudheads?  Windbags?

It occurs to me that, given the extensive use of agents by the nobles, there might be some kind of "Messengers' Guild" or "Herald's Guild" for such people.  I'm imagining a sort of hired professional who is simultaneously a runner, messenger, herald, middleman (for dealing with "lessers" on business), someone who is both streetwise enough to get around and know who to talk to, while also possessing the etiquette necessary to talk to their employers.  Of course, maybe such people are "permanent staff" for nobles rather than hirelings, I just sort of like the idea of runners-for-hire in the setting.  It seems like it must be a pretty difficult place to navigate if you don't have good clocks and real familiarity with the city.

And while we're on guilds, I was wondering about how one becomes a fortune-teller, since clearly the benefits are substantial.  If it's a learned art, how are apprentices chosen, and how is it kept secret?  Are certain rare substances required, or can any trained person simply do it?  You mentioned that they vary in accuracy; is that a reflection of inborn talent or simply how experienced they are?  One wonders how it would be to be a "novice" fortuneteller, since you might be too innacurate for your predictions to actually be useful!

Moving on to materials, I think the dependence on chitin for armor and weapons and such suggests a few possibilities you could build on.  It might be that only certain insects provide usable chitin, and perhaps even then only in certain stages of life (i.e., "you've got to get them right after they've molted so the skin's still pliable!").  It's hard to see chitin as being used for everything, however, simply because you can't "forge" it like metal.  Maybe the two are used together in some way?  Maybe there are insects that could grow or develop into certain shapes, in a similar manner to how the Razi "evolve" based on what their last meal was?

Regarding the day/night cycle, I'm interested to hear more about the implications of the unusual progression of daylight and darkness.  Do people take a "siesta" during Middle-night, or are they active like the Molochie?  Are insects utilized at all in lighting, or is it "magic" light, or mundane, or something else?  Why is it that some areas are in twilight?  When one lives beneath the towers, how much light does one see anyway, or is that what you meant by some areas being in perpetual twilight?

Molochie - The "Moloch!" part of Howl was a favorite of mine back in the day, so I was pleasantly surprised to see it pop up here.  You have succeeded in making them seem very alien and sort of vaguely threatening, but the price of this is that there are still some apparent paradoxes that may need to be worked out.  Crow brought up the fact that they have a "complex language" yet are presumably unable to hear, which raises the question of exactly what this language is - some kind of sign language, or based on feeling vibrations or something?  I didn't see any response to Crow's comment (at the bottom of page 2) but I might have missed it.  The other thing I'm not quite able to explain about the Molochie is how it is they're tolerated at all given that they steal children.  Obviously the nobles have commercial reasons to keep them around, but the middle/lower classes presumably benefit only inderectly from their presence (if at all) and seem like they wouldn't take kindly to child-snatchers running errands in their neighborhoods.  Are they simply afraid to stand up to the Molochie, or are the visitors protected by law?

The Mourning Quarter is a very neat idea; a city this size surely wants to protect against plague, and accomplishing this with a big quarantine is certainly novel.  It seems like there would be fantastic pressure to hide sickness to keep yourself from being "deported."  Are there illness inspectors that search for hidden sick people, or are there rewards for "snitching" on an invalid?  Maybe PCs could find themselvers investigating some noble who is rumored to be sick, but lives in seclusion to prevent anyone from knowing.  How does society work in the Mourning Quarter?  Is it basically anarchy, or is there a sort of Fog King theocracy?  I wonder who runs the joint, since it seems like healthy Justicars and other public servants would want to stay out.  At this point I'm visualizing a Lepers' Gang with bandaged limbs and waving their special gang colors staking territory and roughing up cripples for pocket change.

Though it might not be tenable, the Shades got me thinking about a Mystery Campaign in which the PCs were all shades and working together to figure out what they were supposed to do (and then doing it).  Even if that's just fantasy, though, could PCs find themselves helping shades in the same manner as the fog cultists?  Do shades have anything to offer, like information from memories of their former life, or do people only help them out of religious obligation or altruism?

I would like to hear more about the Third Eyes; as with a few of the details you've laid out for us, the concept is interesting but there's not yet much explanation there.  If they were intended as spies in EverFar, why would they attach to people in Over Under?  What kind of host do they prefer, or is it essentially random?  Are they ignored or do people try to "swat" them when they're floating around?

Regarding minerals - I'm a great fan of adapting alchemy to settings, and I'm keen to see where you go with magic stones.  Echoing what Numinous said, you could have a system in which powdered (or whole) stones were used for a whole variety of purposes, including reagants and drugs.  Perhaps there is a whole branch of magic that is basically geomancy (or some other appropriate term), the use of precious stones and powders to produce spells, with the caveat that it's possible to poison or drug yourself with some minerals (if you need cinnabar for a fireball, better take it easy...).  One suggestion I thought I'd add is that you might consider gemstone-teeth like those of D&D's Demilich; the demilich is basically a floating skull with some of its teeth replaced with gemstones that can, among other things, trap people's souls in those gems.  In your case, maybe such implanted gems could impart abilities or ward people from danger, and it seems like replacing teeth with gems would fit right in with a noble class that considers it acceptible to cover your limbs in silver!

I've nearly come to the end of my notes here.  The last thing I'd like to bring up is the confluence between artisans and magicians.  You mentioned "magic" (as opposed to sorcery) being very ordered, relying on charts and diagrams and precise rituals.  You have been wondering about what to call mages and their academy, but I wonder if it might work more organically if instead of being an independent class of people, "mages" were simply practitioners of existing trades.  An architect, for example, makes all kinds of charts and diagrams and careful measurements; might there be sort of an innate magic in architecture, evoked by precise blueprints in the same manner that a building rises from those blueprints?  I'm just suggesting that "magic" need not be entirely seperate from "mundane" trades in Over Under, particularly since the "ordered" nature of magic makes it seem like it would come naturally to certain tradesmen.  I don't mean that the Architects and the Mages are necessarily one and the same (though that is certainly one way to go), but that magic might be most prevalent in the upper echelons of certain guilds, and one's guild might determine what "school" or "kind" of magic one practices.  An architect-wizard could have a different sort of power than an accountant-wizard (hey, balancing books is a pretty precise and ordered activity!).

I enjoyed reading this thread, Sarisa, and I look forward to your continuing work on it.  You have a lot of really intriguing details, and I'm interested to see how you end up bringing things together into a consistent whole.  Of course, you may not be to that stage yet - there may be much more brainstorming ahead, and if so, I look forward to that as well.  Sorry it took me so long to get this together!

Wow my friend, what a review! So many ideas popped into my head while reading. Thanks for your review and appreciation Polycarp. Thanks for your kind words and appreciation. Will post some responses next week I think.

(still reading your setting material!)

I absolutely love the Molochie, and I started writing some notes for you, if you didn't mind, and I still would want to play this!


A race of beings that fabricate themselves.
They have bifurcated arms, one forearm is normal sized, the other looks like an analogous structure. (Imagine claws on a python) It still has a wrist, but only two to three digits.
In public, or in areas where humans could potentially see them, they keep their third and four arms up their sleeves. On top of their shoulders there could be a metal plate or some sort of growth that allows them to tap with minimal movement and it would reverberate through their skeletons and into the ground a few feet or so. This would help them in their communication. When they are completely alone they would take their second arms out and use them in a seriously complicated sign language, depending on which hand is used per word different emotions can be inferred.

    Which brings me to their usage of the four masks. They would use the four masks to show how their hands display their emotions for them? Like their symbolism, as a part of who they are? Reminds me of how christians use crosses and such!


About their religion, they still pray to their god and I was thinking about how the God-Queen Maub (Spelling) essentially locked up the other gods, maybe these guys want their god back? Man I really love the whole idea, but my brain literally exploded at the sight of Molochie!


*EDIT* I imagined them wearing bulky robes to help hide their arms, and the mask with the robes reminded me of the king or emperor in Kingdom of heaven, whoa.
*EDIT2* Don't know if I can link images here, but this is what I was getting at, appearance wise, http://www.edward-norton.org/chimage.php?image=koh/enpremierekoh.jpg

Quote from: Palindromes
I absolutely love the Molochie, and I started writing some notes for you, if you didn't mind, and I still would want to play this!

Awesome!

Quote from: Palindromes
A race of beings that fabricate themselves.

Stated like that I didn't even realize the implications of the fact that they must actively seek out new members for their race. I'm going to think about this more and what sort of institutions/resources they need and how it affects the world. I do know that it is heavily tied into their religion (how could maintaining the continuity of their race not be?) and is a sacred ritual.

Quote from: Palindromes
They have bifurcated arms, one forearm is normal sized, the other looks like an analogous structure. (Imagine claws on a python) It still has a wrist, but only two to three digits.
In public, or in areas where humans could potentially see them, they keep their third and four arms up their sleeves. On top of their shoulders there could be a metal plate or some sort of growth that allows them to tap with minimal movement and it would reverberate through their skeletons and into the ground a few feet or so. This would help them in their communication.

So they have one shoulder joint and four hands. I'm trying to think why they would want to keep these parts covered at all times. I think it lies in their religion as well-they are hyper-conservative and perhaps their religious laws prevent them from revealing any skin to outsiders. (that and the fact that they take children away and turn them into one of these things)

The other thing I love is the vibration communication. I'm thinking they developed this when they lived underground- (a whole history is starting to form-more on that later) It was necessary for them to communicate through rock walls and in darkness. This "silent" communication might also help them talk to each other when dealing with outsiders-especially arranging business deals. Being able to communicate between each other silently would be invaluable in striking up the best possible deal in a financial arrangement.

The only thing I have to figure out is how they actually communicate with other races-and I think the key is the emotion masks they wear (recall that they have four-faced metal masks that each convey a separate emotion) Maybe it is the norm for humans to ask them only yes or no questions for example-the Molochie would reply by showing an angry face for displeasure (NO!) or a happy face for agreement (YES!).

Quote from: Palindromes
When they are completely alone they would take their second arms out and use them in a seriously complicated sign language, depending on which hand is used per word different emotions can be inferred.

That's brilliant and goes right along with their masks (Four masks-four hands to correlate with each other). Which emotion is assigned to a hand has been ordained for century and as is with most of their social customs is religious dogma. 

Quote from: Palindromes
About their religion, they still pray to their god and I was thinking about how the God-Queen Maub (Spelling) essentially locked up the other gods, maybe these guys want their god back? Man I really love the whole idea, but my brain literally exploded at the sight of Molochie!

That, would be an interesting motive for them to be involved in the politics of Over Under.

http://zakath-nath.joueb.com/images/baudoin6.jpg

Gasp! You found my inspiration. Great movie.
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Anyways, Welcome to the CBG Palindromes and thanks for reading! :)
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[ic=About Magic take 2]

There are four ranks in the mages school. Each has its own implications and responsibilities:

Mundi
An entry level student is known as a Magus Mundi and they comprise the largest proportion of the student body. In the beginning a Mundi learns only basic spells like creating light, levitating small objects or making noise. (pretty basic d&d stuff w/e).

Mundis are stripped of all there possessions and are not allowed to buy or sell anything. They cannot receive gifts from family or friends and are basically isolated from society. These are the 'lean' years of learning, designed to strengthen the bond between Mundi and the college. They rely on the college for everything. Sometimes, this practice has the adverse effect-distancing the Mundi from the college and resentment follows-sometimes these dissidents turn to sorcery or fortune telling.  

The Mundi stage lasts as long as is necessary, measured by the third rank up known as Magus Praetor (more on them in a bit) who act in the role of supervisor or professor. The Praetor has the best relationship with a Mundi.

What I mean by necessary is it is the curriculum that lays the foundation for greater things. The bond between Mundi and college is formed, the basic theoretical spellcraft is taught, and the weaker (resentful/unwilling) are rooted out. A student can remain a Mundi for his whole life; this has happened on occasion, but it is by no means the status quo.


Adai
Directly above the Mundi is Magus Adai. Adai ranked students withdraw to small laboratories and isolated libraries to pursue ever greater learning. Adais build strong relationships with each other, and healthy competition is often the case. The bonds formed between Adai often last a lifetime; but great rivalries are often forged as well.

This is perhaps the hardest rank to complete-because the student is no longer directly guided, but using the tools given in Mundi class, must continue to learn on there own volition. Not to say that Praetors do not look in on the students from time to time-in fact more than the average Adai would know-the guidance given is often subtle and cryptic. Self-confidence and the moral and ethical use of magic are just as important to develop as shear skill and knowledge of spellcraft at this rank.  

On paper, Adais' are not as socially isolated as a Mundi. The nature of their work is strenuous-already isolated to the point of near-madness, and a little family and friend encouragement for the festivals and such is deemed healthy by the higher ups. But most Adais do not wish to rejoin society at this stage. They have truly been transformed from an average person into a learner of a 'higher profession', and do not wish to put their meddle in jeopardy by petty social interactions. In some cases (more often than not) an Adai is so full of him/herself that the family simply doesn't invite them home-egos in the mages college are like you know whats.

Praetor

Magus Praetor are the truly transformed, often finished product of a student at the mages school. Some magus' are perfectly content to continue to teach and guide lesser ranks, remaining Praetor until the day they die (which, for a magus' can be a very long ways away).
Praetors have great responsibility-they ensure that only the best magus' reach the rank of Adai-rooting out the bad apples at Mundi rank.

Praetors are the bearded eccentric men often found in tea shops and coffee dens, arguing obscure arcane theories. They can recite word-for-word entire tomes of spellcraft text, and recall hundreds if not thousands of complex formulas for spells with ever greater potency, power and effect.

EDIT:Ignore this next paragraph until I take into account the fact that 90% of magus' are from noble/upper class blood
They are the talk of Over Unders upper social circles; they are invited to the most exclusive noble formal occasions, festivals, galas etc. and they are welcomed with open arms-But they are never truly ingratiated with nobility-who find people of even 'higher professions' distasteful at some level. In truth, Praetors are often used by the nobility to further themselves just like countless others. Not to say that Praetors are pushovers, but once again, a magus' ego is often the way to manipulate them-and the nobility know this.  

Ultim
Praetors answer directly to the rank of Magus Ultim. Ultims are few and far between. They are diplomat, weapon, archaeologist and councilor in one package. Their first duty is to ensure that Arcane knowledge is not lost (again) but continues. In addition they must seek out new knowledge, whether that be through experimentation or following a trail of ancient clues to lost secrets of spellcraft.

Ultims are rarely in Over Under. They have access to spells that make travel quite easy. They do not bother themselves with silly noble parties or day to day affairs of the college. They are the real deal...oof more later.
[/ic]

[ic=A bit about Fortune Tellers]

Higher professions like Arcane Magic and Architecture are based on empirical evidence, extensive data and other logical tools. Fortune Telling is not. Fortune Tellers are the rock stars of the city that are there to entertain as much as inform. The best are very expensive and the worst-well often starve or find other professions.

Fortune Tellers call themselves Augurs or Diviners or simply Artists and loathe the name Fortune Teller. They often have entourages attached to their 'shows' that work behind the scenes or in some way run the business of Fortune Telling. They prefer the exotic and shocking, employing underground Sorcerers or disillusioned Mundi for "special" effects and other stage wizardry (literally). Many starting in the profession are just that-failed wizards or on the run sorcerers building a new career.  

They use mechanical tools, trap doors and lifts, glowing orbs and smoke machines. They are actors first and foremost...

The actual telling is a bit more complicated. The results are not always accurate, but a Teller can produce satisfactory results for a noble (recall that the nobility employ Fortune Tellers as much for their show as for their company and personality) based on gossip, informants and other underground tricks. Fortune Telling is not easy and it is often make or break...vast fortunes can be made and lives can be lost.

[/ic]

[ic]
The Hive and the Sea of Kwal

  The Sea of Kwal is fed by a number rivers and streams that seep through mineral rich fissures to the north of Ever Far. The Sea is the life blood of the home of the Molochie, (called for now The Hive). They breed dragonflys and raise crops of lichen, moss and lily pads all made possible by the phosphorescent glow of those same flora. The sea is worked with the help of human laborers from the regular quarters of Ever Far. The fish caught in pound nets are used to fertilize the vegetation, and any excess is taken to the surface to market
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[ooc=busy !]

My schedule has been stupid busy...tourist season. School. other stuff. Trying to get back into overunder.
[/ooc]

Couple things:

The quarters still need detailed write ups. Keystone has been a struggle for me especially, because it should be awe-inspiring in a city that is already awe-inspiring. A giant tower that houses the wizards school is simply not enough...

A new Quarter popped into my mind this morning.

The Fortune Quarter.
  Home to the renegade merchant king, Gold Cup. Legend holds that Gold Cup once owned a simple gambling booth on the outskirts of the market in the time of the Monarch. His game was simple: Three gold cups, turned over on a table, indistinguishable from each other, with a silver coin beneath one. He would require the punter to choose the cup that held the coin after a dizzying rearranging of the cups. Stories say that the Monarch himself lost a fortune one-hundred times over playing Gold Cups game.

Gold Cup is an enigmatic figure with a gold-clad finger dipped in many pies around Over Under. He is responsible for the corruption in the Queens own Office of Weights, Time and Measurement. He taxes illegally, loans money to nobles and has a small private army that enforces his draconian rules. The Queen tolerates the man because of the popularity (and a decent cut/bribe) of his gambling houses. Gold Cup is at war with the Molochie merchants and the markets in Over Under they seek to break into.

Fortune is also home to the Fortune Telling houses...(more on fortune tellers somewhere in this thread)


The Worm Rings.

Twelve tunnels dug straight into the ground nearly an acre across and lined with stone walkways. Home to giant worms that have resided in the city forever. Immovable, insatiable- living legends that are simply avoided. Convicts, criminals, garbage and anything undesirable is thrown into these holes. The worms have not been seen in centuries (not since the monarch tried to kill them) but they are known to be there by the rumblings and ground tremors that mark there movement. The city holds a  policy of "keeping them fed" to avoid any from surfacing... Now they are landmarks in the city. Rewards have been offered for the worms destruction, but no one has ever come back from the holes.

I've also been writing a few stories (mostly based on the Monarchs experience and frustration in trying to build the city) based in over under...