The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: Light Dragon
Thank you again Polycarp.

Regarding the recent marble discussion- would marble count as a special resource that Rome has for purposes of Roger II? Or is that something to be found out in-game after a marble deal is proposed to Roger II?

Also, Do we actually have marble mines or is all of Hugo's marble essentially skimmed off of decaying buildings?

If we want Marble, we should conquer or make a deal with the town of Carrara because they have the best marble in the whole of Italy (it was highly prized by sculptors during the Renaissance).

I'd like to point out that I can have marble from different places in Italy. Especially in Tuscany around Siena. Because my family business is actually based there and Rome was only somewhere my father established a branch of the business. Though my character definitely prefers quality marble from outside Rome, he would still recycle if need be. Probably not for trade with Sicily though, or at least not for the more popular cities. If Roger II would learn about that I don't think the agreement would last long.

I'm also interested in knowing if Rome possesses marble mines or marble spots of its own. Even if in the vicinity and not -within- the city itself.

Thanks for the info EE, though I'll let Poly rule out whether my character knows that for sure or not. It seems to me that he would, but deciding that by myself right now would be way too opportunistic.

QuoteI'm also interested in knowing if Rome possesses marble mines or marble spots of its own. Even if in the vicinity and not -within- the city itself.

Rome possesses no marble quarries, but the marble ruins of Rome were "mined" for centuries.  The ruins of Ostia (in the 12th century, Gregoriopolis) were also widely exploited, and Ostian marble was used for constructions in Pisa, Florence, and Amalfi in the Middle Ages.  One shouldn't dismiss such "salvaged" marble just because it's been re-used; it was not an inferior material to freshly quarried marble.  As far as I can tell, Ostia was favored mostly because it was a big yet uninhabited city that was close enough to the sea for the stone to easily be loaded onto ships.  Because Rome was an actual medieval city with building projects of its own, I don't believe it was exploited for foreign use as extensively as Ostia; most of the times I read about Roman ruins being re-purposed, it's for some new palazzo in or around Rome itself. 

As for Carraran marble, you already have it, to an extent - it was widely used in Rome and probably in Ostia too (it was used in the Pantheon, for instance).  The quarries at Carrara were forgotten for some time after the Empire's fall, but by now they have been rediscovered, and a Sienese marble merchant would know about them.

[ooc=Election of 1152]Total votes: 27
Votes cast: 27
Votes remaining: 0

Senator Calafatus: 13
Senator Basile: 9
Senator DiFontane: 5

This is the current tally for the election of 1152, before bribery is applied.  Total votes include currently active players only.

You have six hours left to send bribes or change your vote!  Six hours from the time this message is posted, all ballots will be final and the result will be announced.[/ooc]

[ic=Before the Senate House]A herald announces the results of the Senate's deliberation to the people.  Fortis Calafatus and Roberto Basile have been named Consuls for 1152-1153.  May they rule wisely and justly![/ic]

Fortis Calafatus, who has received the largest number of votes in the Senate, has the privilege of choosing his Consular office.  Roberto Basile will take whichever Consular office, exterior or interior, that Consul Calafatus has not selected.

Now that the election is over, all players may commence with Turn 2.  Orders for Turn 2 are due on Sunday, February 12th.  I figure it won't take us a whole week since the election has given us some time to prepare orders, but if Sunday is too soon, please notify me.

Letters were already posted with the update, save those for Consuls.

[ic=To the Consuls]I am told the Consuls are the masters of Rome.  If this is true, perhaps they will see about dispersing the mob besieging my house.  As much as I enjoy my residence, I am getting rather tired of being confined to it.

Pietro Colonna[/ic]

[ic=To the Consuls]Esteemed Roman Consuls,

The Consuls and people of Perugia send their congratulations on overturning Episcopal tyranny.  We have great hopes for future friendship and cooperation between our two ancient Tiberian cities.  We intend to provide a delegation to your city in the Spring and suggest that accommodations be procured for them by the Roman Senate in a manner you deem to be appropriate.

Camerarius Ildibrand Ferrante, for the Ten Consuls of Perugia[/ic]

[ooc=Investigation]Investigate the defenses of the city of Rome[/ooc]

OOC - I'd like something similar to what EE did in the past (it's on page 3). Of course, it would be in addition to my other actions.

Quote from: Elemental_Elf[ooc=Orders, investigation]
We have many enemies on our borders and few allies. It would be for the best if we ascertained the true nature of the defenses of the Eternal City. For this defenses is used as a broad term meaning walls, fortifications, towers, the militia, granaries,  water supply, etc. I hereby order an investigation into the defenses of Rome using the criteria stated previously. [/ooc]

[ic=Private Note to Fortis Calafatus]Congratulations dear friend on your recent meteoric rise to the pinnacle power within our humble city. May your reign as Consul be peaceful, prosperous and benevolent. [/ic]

[ic=Private Letter To Senator Hugo  de Vinti]Dear Senator,

It has come to my attention that you have made an inquiry into the defenses of the Eternal City. As the fates would have it, I happened to commission just such an inquiry myself not three months ago. I would be more than happy to share my findings with a fellow defense-minded Senator such as yourself - for we must defend that which we have built, lest we be conquered by the wolves that surround us. I have enclosed my findings in this letter with the hope that when defense-related issues arise on the Senate floor, I can count on you to act with the best interest of Rome's continued freedom in mind.

Sincerely,

Senator Domenico DeRosa

[spoiler=Findings][ooc=The Report]Defenses

The Aurelian Walls of Rome are in a rather sorry state.  The Goths razed nearly half the city's wall in the 6th century, and though many repairs have been made there are still numerous weak points and damaged sections, some of them even caused by the Romans themselves who used wall stones for building materials over the years.  Even if it were repaired fully, however, the essential problem remains that the wall perimeter is huge; even if every man of Rome was under arms, they could not possibly defend every section of it.  An enemy force might well scale an undefended section and seize the city that way.  The walls certainly serve a purpose, but they may be more valuable as a delay against a serious attack rather than an absolute defense.

The Leonine City, in contrast, is exceptionally secure; the Castle of Saint Angelo acts as the keystone of an excellent system of defenses in this walled quarter, built several centuries ago to protect Saint Peter's Basilica against the Saracens.  Even the river there is protected by chain towers that can keep any ship from passing.  Unfortunately, the whole district seems to be firmly in the hands of the Pierleonists.

No serious steps have been taken to organize any kind of food storage against invasion.  The city has relied on the Tiber for its water since the barbarians cut the Roman aqueducts in distant antiquity, but the Tiber banks are not very healthy and malaria is endemic there.  Fouling the river further would presumably be possible, and there is no real alternative source.

The militia is generally enthusiastic and equipped in an adequate manner, but training and discipline seem to be lacking, as one might gather from the recent assault on Tivoli (see battle report).  It is highly doubtful whether the militia in its current state could stand up to real, professional soldiers in a field battle.[/ooc][/spoiler][/ic]

[ooc=Orders: Spy]Send a competent spy into the town of Formello, to uncover the town's defensive and military strengths as well as any weaknesses the town may have (reliance upon a single source of water, aged/crumbling gates and walls, heavily burdened poor who might rise up against their lords given the right circumstances, etc.). Ensure the cost does NOT exceed 1 Wealth. [/ooc]

[ooc=Orders: Chapel]Ensure the construction of the Chapel I commissioned is going smoothly.[/ooc]

[ic=Private To Fortis]
Congratulations on your election. Although many other senators dropped their support and votes of you, I spoke up for your when their support ebbed away. I hope that my personal vote was appreciated and I believe that together; you and I the Senate can continue to serve Rome and to protect it in these difficult days.
[/ic]

[ic=Private to DiFontaine]
Although our policies were at loggerheads in regards to taxation, I do look forward to supporting you in the future when a tax is more appropriate. You are a good man for Rome and I look forward to working with you on our areas of common interest. The more dialogue we have in the future I think, the closer we can grow together. I invite you to one of my get-togethers, if you would like to join. There will be wine, song and singing inebriated women.

Also,  I too believe that Rome should expand its influence. There may be another way to enter Tre Fontaine without blood. I think there is much to discuss this possibility, if you would like.
[/ic]

[ic=Private To Roberto Basile]
Congratulations on your election! I look forward to seeing you put into practice the policies that we have discussed.

[spoiler=Open Depending on Polycarp's Reply to me. Otherwise I haven't said it yet.]
Also I have a deal for Rome. Crossbows from Naples; the verysame used by the Normans to defend and assault. With them each Roman citizen on Rome's walls will become the worth of not 10 of each of the enemy's troops, but 100! If you pay an appropriate price, I can acquire many more from Sicily. Also, payment of an appropriate price will allow me to guarantee safe-shipment for our supplies from my cousin-in-law, Roger II. He has made a most interesting proposition. The man states that if Rome can trade him some good that he does not already have, he will secure our ships on the waves. And if he would do that...It may be only a small change if Rome would prefer to have a borrowed force for some military action. If you make the acquisition, then the option would be available. (e.g. Asking the senate to purchase crossbows for 2 wealth). I am willing to make a speech before the Senate to broach the idea.[/spoiler]

On another issue... Trade. What is your opinion of developing Rome into a trading port to join Genoa, Venice and Pisa in their glory? The option is not without its risks, but it could greatly renew the Capagna Romanum to its once great glory. All roads lead to Rome, should not all rivers?
[/ic]

[ic=Letter or Conversation with Arnold of Bresica]
Senator DiFontaine has brought up an important question; that of Tre Fontaine. The Abbot has fled among the Tolomeo and only the Senior Monks remain. We know you wish all holy men to walk as you do, in poverty. If we were to negotiate with Tre Fontaine, would it be appropriate to request they tithe a sizable amount of their wealth to the Commune for the good of the people of Rome and its environs in return for them being allowed to retain what remains, for purpose of managing their lands to remain self-sufficient?

Of course, it is possible that the Monks may be so greedy as to not even agree to the offer of the tithe to aid the common popolo. It is also possible that they fear retribution from their Cardinal, who is a man of temporal power. The Senate could delay action against Tre Fontaine; we have delayed for long before.

But if you are not amenable to that solution or inaction, then DiFontane seems to be suggesting bloodshed in the Abbey... Still, he is not our consul, and I do not know what Fortis or the Senate will ultimately decide.[/ic]


Polycarp? So my shipments don't arrive this turn? Perhaps I don't understand the travel times, but I would think that it would take less than 120 days (2 seasons) to send ships out to Naples and get ships back from Naples. Will the ships only arrive in Winter?

I also don't remember if I asked this: "OOC: What goods might Roger II not already have in ample supply? Is this something as a player that I guess, or is it something that as Vittorio I may know?"

Magnus-

QuoteOOC -  I was looking for a steady stream of Wealth per Season. Since they are on a construction boom, they'll need materials, maybe more than they have available (though that I'm far from certain and is why I'm only inquiring about opportunities for this turn). The Wealth return, of course, I'd want it to be as high as possible, but 1 Wealth will suffice and further deals could increase this amount. And to really answer your question. It's not only about increasing Rome's Wealth, but Rome's reputation with a potential ally against Frederick I. If Frederick or his Papal allies would decide to descend upon Rome, Sicily's interests might be in jeopardy. You get where I'm going. Of course one deal wouldn't set the sort of reaction I'm expecting, but in life, we start at the low of the ladder and go up. If you catch my drift

Ah. Thank you for the clarification. Just a FYI, Polycarp did mention that there would be some obstacles to overcome if we get too involved in foreign trade. That isn't stopping me yet; but it's something we probably want to weigh--what rate of expansion is safe for us.

[ooc]
*Have a loyal ally or self (if possible...considering my work in trade it may be possible) forge letter in Count Tusculum's hand (using his letters and the same vellum and ink he uses as a reference; also attempt to reproduce his seal and/or coat of arms on the missive). By mode of discrete deniability, hand it off in a chain of travelers unconnected to self. Eventually it should reach Tivoli. Contents: "It is with great regret that I could not join you to repel those dogs who have occupied Rome and thrust out its rightful Pontiff. You are now suffering, but you should not be so. Bring what belongings and wealth you have and come to my estates, which are spacious, to live with me and the Pope. You will be fed and famine should be no fear to you." The letter is specifying his estates where he is with the Pope; not the ones that we might potentially seize.

Monitor the situation to see if they are on the move. If they are on the move, I'd like to take an action.

*What is the current wealth in Rome's defense and construction funds after contribution by all willing Senators?

*Determine the number of cardinals that can vote in the papal election. If possible, determine their allegiances. This should be done by common knowledge; if not, then ask the Abbot of Subacio (who came to our aid) what he knows of the Cardinals' opinions about the major competitors for a pope to succeed Eugene III if the old man dies of old age.

*Survey the number of private ships in Rome.

*Determine in general the safety of road transportation from bandits on roads around Rome. If possible, determine bandit leaders and any groups that may be harassing pilgrims. Do this by inviting wealthier travelers from afar to my house to sup and wine and admire sculptures, like Da Vinti's.

*Letter to lands of the Fatimids in Northern Africa to get in contact with his trading contacts. Inquire as to how they are holding out regarding the current wars and to what trade goods they need in return for their glasswares, fabrics, linens, and roots in the coming trade season. Also inquire as to the prices of Elephants and their finest Equines. Mention the Marbles of Rome.[/ooc]

[ic=Letter to Pietro Colonna]Signore Colonna,

The situation that you are in is indeed unfortunate, and would do well to be rectified, I would imagine. Confinement to any palazzo, no matter how sumptuously appointed, certainly cannot be beneficial to the body's health. I ask you to forgive the Roman people, who you of course know to be overeager in their efforts at times. I will look into this matter at my earliest possible convenience.

At such a time that your situation has been resolved, I would like to extend to you the friendship of the Roman Senate, and would invite you to dine with me at my estate. The country airs will do you some good, and I promise that my table will not disappoint.

Consul Roberto Basile[/ic]

[ic=Writ of Consular Order to Disperse and Desist]

Romans! Hear the voice of your lawfully elected Consul, Roberto Basile!

I know you are eager to defend the honour of our city, as I am! But Signore Colonna is not your enemy! He is a true Roman, just as you are! I hearby extend to him the protection of the Senate of Rome, and would humbly ask you to desist in your efforts to bring harm to his person or property. As Consul, it is my duty to defend the rights of any Roman, great or small, and all would do well to remember that!

[/ic]

[ic=Speech to the Senate]Senators! My heart is near bursting with joy to so serve the city of Rome! Your support of me is humbling, and I swear to God almighty that all the efforts of my being are now put to the betterment of our city.

Last season I had proposed a measure to create a voluntary fund for the defence of Rome, yet alas it fell by the wayside. My first act as Consul of the Interior is to officially establish just such a fund. I myself will be contributing generously, just as I had said. I promise to you that all funds will be guarded most closely, and will be spent wisely and with great care. I know that all of you are great patriots, and when called will do for Rome all that you are able. I so call on you now, Senators! Give to Rome what you can! Her needs are many, and must be seen to if she is to survive and prosper and grow as she so deserves.[/ic]

[ooc=Orders for Autumn 1152]
- Agree to the proposal made by Captain Ruggiero Bedello, investing 1 wealth in his venture. Additionally, send a half dozen of my most able crewmen who are familiar with the waters of the Tyrrhennian Sea and the Tunisian Coast - including my trusted lieutenant Simone Lombardi - with the merchant vessel.  

- As Consul, establish an official voluntary defence fund for the city, encouraging various senators to contribute. Personally contribute 1 wealth to this fund.

- Use 1 wealth to recruit, arm and organize a private militia - attempting to obtain the services of as many veterans of the Siege of Tivoli as is possible.

- Obtain the services of an engineer to investigate the repair of the Aqua Virgo, determining feasibility, potential time frame, necessary materials and labour, costs, etc.

- Using my Consular authority, send a small militia detachment along with some of my personal armsmen to attempt to peacefully break up the 'investiture' of the Palazzo Colonna - send a Consular writ to be read aloud in an attempt to persuade the mob to disperse. Provide militia protection to the Colonna if necessary in escorting them to my estate. At dinner, pick Pietro Colonna's brain in regards to his thoughts about the Commune and the Senate.  

- As Consul, institute a new policy requiring each man of the Urban Militia to devote one day in autumn and one day in spring to military training. Organize a set block of four days during which a quarter of the militia will train on each day in field formation and battle discipline under the direction of our most experienced veterans and military captains. For the inaugural block of training days, each man will receive a sweet-eating orange from the groves of Roberto Basile at mid-day.  
[/ooc]

Quote from: Magnus PymOOC - I'd like something similar to what EE did in the past (it's on page 3). Of course, it would be in addition to my other actions.

EE just posted this for you so it may not be necessary, but in any case I'll use this opportunity to remind you and everyone else to keep your OOC orders for the turn in a single post.  It seems like a minor thing, I know, but it makes it much, much easier for me to update - you should really only be making one "red box" of OOC orders per turn.  Just edit more orders in the same box if you think of more.

Quote from: Elemental_ElfFind out how much it would cost to send a competent spy into the town of Formello, who could uncover the town's defensive and military strengths as well as any weaknesses the town may have (reliance upon a single source of water, aged/crumbling gates and walls, heavily burdened poor who might rise up against their lords given the right circumstances, etc.).

To save time, you might consider simply ordering the espionage and setting a limit ("unless it costs me more than 1 Wealth").

Quote from: Light DragonPolycarp? So my shipments don't arrive this turn? Perhaps I don't understand the travel times, but I would think that it would take less than 120 days (2 seasons) to send ships out to Naples and get ships back from Naples. Will the ships only arrive in Winter?

They will arrive in the next update; that is, chronologically, sometime during Autumn.  Right now we are at the beginning of Autumn (September, basically) and you are deciding what to do for Autumn; the coming update will inform you what actually happened during autumn as a result of your orders.  What that means is that your shipment is not here at this moment, but you can issue orders about it since it should be arriving sometime during the period covered by the coming update (barring some unfortunate circumstance, like pirates/storms).

Quote"OOC: What goods might Roger II not already have in ample supply? Is this something as a player that I guess, or is it something that as Vittorio I may know?"

Any of the major merchants in Rome would probably know that Sicily is known for its wheat, sugar, and cotton, so they are unlikely to need those things.  What Roger and the merchants of his kingdom are interested in, however, is unknown to you.  There may not be much point in asking the question until you are actually producing some manner of good and controlling some manner of port with which to export it.

[ic=Arnold of Brescia to Vittorio Manzinni]Just as the Pope was justly denied his worldly dalliances in Rome, so too would it be just to deprive these so-called monks of theirs.  Their Abbey was richly endowed with lands by the great Charlemagne, and these monks take Tusculan vacations like the most prosperous of noblemen when the Summer is too hot for their feeble French constitutions!  Such wealth belongs to the people of Rome, not to the humble servants of God they are supposed to be.  I rebuke such men for the wealth in their clutches and I deny their spiritual authority, yet I would not put misguided men to the sword who do not bear arms themselves, for that is not the way of Christ.[/ic]

[ic=A Letter to Consul Basile]Unless we are to dine at my residence, Consul, I am unaware of how I could safely extricate myself from these "overeager" crowds to find my way to your table.  May I be permitted to reverse the invitation and request your presence instead?  I assure you that despite this little siege, my larders are in no danger of becoming drafty.

Pietro Colonna[/ic]

[ic=Letter to Pietro Colonna]

As I write, I am preparing to ensure the peaceful dispersal of the Romans who have accosted you and your property. Your invitation is most kind, and if you still find yourself misliking the prospect of a country journey at such a time as my men arrive, I would be honoured to accept your invitation to share a meal. You are of course always welcome at my table, and my men will extend every courtesy to ensure your safe escort should you prefer to accept my invitation.

Roberto Basile[/ic]

QuoteThey will arrive in the next update; that is, chronologically, sometime during Autumn.  Right now we are at the beginning of Autumn (September, basically) and you are deciding what to do for Autumn; the coming update will inform you what actually happened during autumn as a result of your orders.  What that means is that your shipment is not here at this moment, but you can issue orders about it since it should be arriving sometime during the period covered by the coming update (barring some unfortunate circumstance, like pirates/storms).

Thank you... that might cause a small issue with how I was going to play things this turn, but we'll see how things turn out. e.g. I wanted it to arrive, then I wanted to say something, then depending on the reaction, I wanted to do X. I suppose I may have to rejigger my planning process in that case.

Thank you also for the clarity regarding the resources. It might help to have a list of common resources in certain areas... Is there any way that either I or someone else could help you with that on a map? (Since you've already put a lot of time into the game). Although from my understanding- Rome has 2 other resources: 1. Marble (needs transport); 2. Saintly Relics.

OOC - Updated my orders Polycarp.

Question: Who rules the town of  Portus?

Quote from: Light DragonThank you... that might cause a small issue with how I was going to play things this turn, but we'll see how things turn out. e.g. I wanted it to arrive, then I wanted to say something, then depending on the reaction, I wanted to do X. I suppose I may have to rejigger my planning process in that case.

Well, I'll let you work it out, but I'll just suggest as I have before that sometimes conditionals are the best way to handle these things (if my shipment arrives, then...).

QuoteThank you also for the clarity regarding the resources. It might help to have a list of common resources in certain areas... Is there any way that either I or someone else could help you with that on a map? (Since you've already put a lot of time into the game).

That would be a somewhat more involved process than a regular political map, but I will think about it.

QuoteAlthough from my understanding- Rome has 2 other resources: 1. Marble (needs transport); 2. Saintly Relics.

Yes, but Marble can't be shipped very far because Rome has no decent port, and relics derive their value chiefly by the fact that they're in Rome (so people will come to Rome to see them, spending money in the process).  Rome doesn't "export" relics; in fact, over the years, Popes generally bring relics to Rome from elsewhere.

Quote from: Elemental_ElfQuestion: Who rules the town of  Portus?

Nobody.  It is an uninhabited ruin.

OOC - Since Gregariopolis is controlled-by/allied-with Papal forces, is to safe to assume the Eternal City now has no port town of its own?