Grindelrath (W.I.P)

O Senhor Leetz · February 09, 2012, 08:16:07 PM

Using the format of Steerpike's primer of the CE - which in turn used LC's format - I'm going to try to just jot down a brief, but hopefully thorough, overview of a possible setting that evolved from discussion of how to make a Gygaxian D&D make sense. That said, this isn't really going to be a pure D&D-inspired setting. I should also point out that the name is not carved in stone by any means, but it sounded like it fit the tone as of now.

World Synopsis

A Possible "Future" of a D&D World - Without being too long-winded, Grindelrath, in a way, is a possible outcome for a world full of heroes, adventurers, magic, and monsters. The present day of Grindelrath would be akin to earth's 14th and 15th century. The monsters and villains of the world have been driven into the shadows, the power and danger of magic is feared, and adventurers are a dying breed.

An Almost-Forgotten Past - The Grindelrath peasant, down-trodden, weak and fearful, has most likely never seen a "monster". Aside from the flashy tricks of alley-wizards and the cheap portents of roaming gypsies, he has never witnessed real magic. He has most likely bought into the lies that cruel kings and the meddling clergy spread, believing that the beasts of the past only exist in the past, and that in the present taxes are due.

But he is wrong. The powers that be know what still lurks in the thick shadows of Grindelrath. They are often all too aware of the whispers of black and foul magic that drift through the night, of villages found empty, or worse, or merchant caravans never arriving on time, and of deep woods and misty fens that seem to swallow men.

Pariah Heroes - In the past, in the glorious days when farmers became fighters, wheelwrights became wizards, when the gold of a dragon's horde founded a kingdom and the clerics of the old gods fought gallantly against the forces of evil, heroes lived the life: there were wenches to woo, villains to vanquish, and lairs to loot.

Nothing made the kings and lords of history more nervous than vivacious do-gooders armed to teeth. But as long as beasts and creatures and dark wizards were a threat, the heroes were left to their own devices. However, the heroes did their jobs very well, too well perhaps, and with the dangers of the past becoming less and less, the kings and their vultures began to circle. Laws were passed requiring the adventurers to join guilds and pay dues. Their treasure was taxed and their items were regulated.

After only a few short centuries, adventurers nearly ceased to be. The ones who survived became pariahs, maligned by authority and feared by the masses, training in their remote guild-citadels until those that shunned them, bringing gold and asking for silence, need them.

Themes

Dark Fairy Tales - The monsters in Grindelrath are not the hordes of orcs that come pouring from their filthy pits or giants that lumber across the countryside, but those creatures and beasts intelligent enough to adapt, to flee to the shadows of the world and sow fear. The witch that lures children with sweets, only to cook them in a pot. The trickster goblin who gives the witless maiden the poison apple The jealous, bitter sorceress that curses the lovely virginal princess to sleep forever. The clever demon that promises riches and glories through his silvered tongue.

Outsiders - The adventurers are outsiders, remnants of a world that is forgotten. Mistrusted by the powers that be, but still needed, they exist in a proverbial limbo - half-loved and half-feared.

A Late Medieval/Early Renaissance Setting - Aside from gunpowder, Grindelrath has, in the absence of monstrous threat, developed to a point relatively equivalent with earth's 14th and 15th century, and all that comes with it: religious fervor, advancing technology, cultural awareness, ear-specific weapons, alchemy, scholasticism, politics, etc. This is not pastoral, bucolic D&D. Considering the Grimm Brothers are such an influence, the late Holy Roman Empire seems fitting.

Genres and Influence

Dark, Gothic, and Horror Fantasy, The Grimm Brothers, film noir, the works of Andrzej Sapkowski and Lovecraft, folklore and mythology - particularly Central European, and anything else that tickles my fancy.

Superfluous Crow · February 10, 2012, 06:41:13 AM

I must admit I didn't follow the discussion thread I believe this was born from very fervently, but from reading the above I get an instant idea of the tone and feel you are aiming for. This is essentially what the introduction is supposed to do, so you succeed with bravura!
Indeed, your writing is overall really good. I love this line: "He has most likely bought into the lies that cruel kings and the meddling clergy spread, believing that the beasts of the past only exist in the past, and that in the present taxes are due".

LordVreeg · February 10, 2012, 07:19:10 AM

I enjoy this so far, and like what you have done to avoid the 'magic becomes tech' issues. Curious about the place of magic in the world and if churches have clerics...or if they are all, somehow, in the guild...and how that makes sense.

Superfluous Crow · February 10, 2012, 07:54:10 AM

I second Vreeg on that question. Was magic considered enough of a danger by politicians and kings for them to completely disavow it and its practitioners despite all the advantages it would offer them? Or is it just heavily regulated? Do arcane colleges of some sort operate in Grindelrath?

O Senhor Leetz · February 10, 2012, 08:33:37 AM

Yeah, I've been trying to figure out myself how Clerics fit into the game world, which I may end up going with "they don't." I'm leaning towards having a single religion, something basic like religion in ASoIaF - The Smith, the Crone, the Mother, etc. - that rules supreme, surpressing most of the old religions, which would be very akin to the classic D&D gods (pagans!), and be part of the military-industrial system, in cahoots with kings and politicians.

However, I also want the characters to be close to the only people in Grindelrath (which is really just a single, Transylvania-esque country) with Player Classes, as they are the only ones still trained as such, so maybe they could be Clerics of the old gods, being even more persecuted by the powers that be.

As for magic, it would be heavily regulated, with many laws passed against illegal magic use. The Dogmatic Church would be quick to condemn illegal magic-users as demons or witches, and the average peasant is terrified by it.

Superfluous Crow · February 10, 2012, 09:49:53 AM

Would Guild personnel sometimes be put on retainer by the nobility? E.g. being the only baron with a seer on hand would be a very fortuitous situation.

O Senhor Leetz · February 10, 2012, 10:47:22 AM

No, the nobility are terrified of the guild members, and as such, they are kept as dirty little secrets. In addition to that, the guilds try not to get involved in politics at all, as past experience has taught them that it never leads to good things.*

* For instance, even though a band of adventurers can do many things that normal people cannot, even a battle-hardened party of heroes cannot resist 4,000 strong army of someone they crossed, laying siege with trebuchets.

Superfluous Crow · February 10, 2012, 11:07:03 AM

So magic is universally restricted to guild members and a few hedge witches? Seems unlikely, honestly, unless the guilds operate a Locke Lamorean Bondsmage-like competition policy where anyone encroaching on their monopoly is swiftly dispatched?

O Senhor Leetz · February 10, 2012, 11:20:09 AM

Quote from: Superfluous Crow
So magic is universally restricted to guild members and a few hedge witches? Seems unlikely, honestly, unless the guilds operate a Locke Lamorean Bondsmage-like competition policy where anyone encroaching on their monopoly is swiftly dispatched?

You make a good point. Maybe wizard colleges exist outside of guilds, but are very cloistered and scholarly, more like librarians than fireball-throwers. Except those that thirst for more power would make good villains.

Matt Larkin (author) · February 10, 2012, 01:03:02 PM

I like the name Grindelrath. It's evocative. Limetom could probably better explain why that is than me, but the sound of it really makes me think dark fantasy. Or perhaps that's me reading "Grendle Wrath," which sounds like Beowulf's nightmare.

QuoteThe monsters and villains of the world have been driven into the shadows, the power and danger of magic is feared, and adventurers are a dying breed.

:yumm:

Xathan · February 10, 2012, 02:16:58 PM

Quote from: Señor Leetz
Quote from: Superfluous Crow
So magic is universally restricted to guild members and a few hedge witches? Seems unlikely, honestly, unless the guilds operate a Locke Lamorean Bondsmage-like competition policy where anyone encroaching on their monopoly is swiftly dispatched?

You make a good point. Maybe wizard colleges exist outside of guilds, but are very cloistered and scholarly, more like librarians than fireball-throwers. Except those that thirst for more power would make good villains.

I dunno, a Lies of Locke Lamora Bondsmage approach would be pretty cool - casters are given an ultimatum "Join or fight several experienced mages. To the death. Your call." And it feels kind of weird if there are random wizards that work for dukes and such that aren't viewed the same way adventurers are - A guy who can fight really well and goes out to kill the remaining monsters is lest trusted than the man with strange, hard to understand powers that has access to the ruler of an area?

Don't get me wrong, I can see the latter approach working, but it'd have to be handled carefully to maintain suspension of disbelief - but form what I've seen, I'm fully confident you could do that.

Humabout · February 11, 2012, 01:09:57 PM

This sounds really awesome! I love the idea of a more rennaissance setting. Are you going to go the way of steampunk at all ro keep it more urban fantasy?

LD · February 11, 2012, 01:38:59 PM

QuoteI dunno, a Lies of Locke Lamora Bondsmage approach would be pretty cool - casters are given an ultimatum "Join or fight several experienced mages. To the death. Your call."

Trudi Canavron's books had a similar approach to magic-those with magic needed to join an organization or else be sent out of the city to perhaps perish in the wild or be hobbled an unable to cast magic ever.

O Senhor Leetz · February 11, 2012, 06:44:40 PM

Hmm, dealing with magic seems to be a pressing issue. Here are my thoughts.

1. Not really worry about like D&D does.

2. Have the powers that be heavily regulate magic, like many people have suggested. Either you join the Magisters (or whatever they will be called) or you disappear. The hero-guilds who train wizards would have to be exempt somehow.

3. Have magic be EVIL!, which would probably mean that even players cannot be Wizards - but maybe the class could be tweaked so they could be Witchhunters, and would focus on the less evil and destructive spells, but even they would be extremely marginalized and suspect for dealing with demons and what-not.

Thanks for all the replies thus far!

EDIT: I'm imagining adventures as 75% hunting and searching for the monsters, and 25% confronting and fighting, with the players going through all manner of questionable and dark paths to find said monsters - shadowy thieves guilds, mad scholars, those who may dabble in the dark arts.

*Also, I'm pretty much at the point of dropping all pretenses of having this be a "D&D" campaign, as I like the idea and don't want to be cornered.

Humabout · February 11, 2012, 07:03:26 PM

It almost sounds more like a monster hunter game set in a rennaissance fantasy world. I love it, really. You could draw on tropes from various action flicks (infiltrator, investigator, people person, etc.) or outright monster hunter flicks (inhuman helping the humans, fighters, priests/holy men, sages). Somewhere in that mix, you should have a nice melieu of classes.

If magic is outright evil, then banning it from players would be understandable. I should ask, though, it is inherently evil or just viewed as such? Are we talking Warp Magic or just a good old-fashioned witch hunt?

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Grindelrath (W.I.P)

O Senhor Leetz

Superfluous Crow

LordVreeg

Superfluous Crow

O Senhor Leetz

Superfluous Crow

O Senhor Leetz

Superfluous Crow

O Senhor Leetz

Matt Larkin (author)

Xathan

Humabout

LD

O Senhor Leetz

Humabout