Grindelrath (W.I.P)

Humabout · February 13, 2012, 01:19:50 PM

So Grindlerath probably won't have anything of interest to outside powers? It's probably poor by outside standards? It's socially retarded by outside standards? It's just the sticks and no one wants to go there anymore than New Yorkers want to go to the boondocks of Arkansas?

O Senhor Leetz · February 13, 2012, 01:21:48 PM

It may or may not, but I'm just not really going to focus on it. I think it may even add to the dreary, fearful tone if the outside world is little known or understood. And Grindelrath wouldn't be the only land with this attitude, it's neighboors may be just as poor and xenophobic as it is, leading to an isolated, fearful world.

Xathan · February 13, 2012, 02:01:56 PM

QuoteAnyhow, geographically thinking, I'm looking towards focusing on a single kingdom or land divided between several kingdoms, with a northern/eastern European feel - Germanic forests, brooding Transylvanian mountains, cold fens - with lots of rain, lots of snow, lots of clouds. I think I may make it landlocked, which would prevent lots of foreign influence and makes for an isolated, somewhat xenophobic populace.

I love the NE European field, but would definitely go with multiple kingdoms, to give Harbringers (you still using that name or did I miss the change) the option of being hired to deal with military matters - plus, multiple kingdoms in conflict is the biggest drive to technological advancement, and helps explain the eradication of many monsters if these kingdoms viewed them as a military threat or just decided that 'Meh, we have an army in the area and there's a small orc tribe, might as well eradicate them while we're at it."

O Senhor Leetz · February 13, 2012, 02:08:09 PM

Well yeah, within the land of Grindelrath, there will most likely be a handful of small kingdoms, but all exist within the same social and cultural sphere.

EDIT: Something like Skyrim would be an example, with all the mini-kingdoms within the greater land.

Xathan · February 13, 2012, 02:49:02 PM

Quote from: Señor Leetz
Well yeah, within the land of Grindelrath, there will most likely be a handful of small kingdoms, but all exist within the same social and cultural sphere.

EDIT: Something like Skyrim would be an example, with all the mini-kingdoms within the greater land.

That's a great way to handle it - especially if, in their past, they were separate enough where those wars could happen, contributing to classic monster extinction. Or has that changed - has the world always had this level of supernatural, or is the age when monsters were common and now rare still the way it works (I'll admit I've not been following as closely as I should.)?

Stryker25B · February 13, 2012, 05:47:00 PM

Normally I spend my time poking around these types of forums without ever really getting involved, but the description of your setting was enough to get me to read the entire thread, and then to join CBC.

The setting oozes dark fantasy, and the ASoIaF is apparent but not overwhelming. What really interests me here is that the 'characters" are now outcasts, and the ongoing discussion about why magic is being considered dangerous keeps bringing me back to one question: HOW are the leaders of present-day Grindelrath keeping magic-users in check? It's all fin and good to tell a powerful wizard "Stay in your tower- or else!" but there has to be a definite, serious threat to back up the "or else" with. And I'm just talking about the former heroes here. Obviously an evil wizard popping up here and there would be the sort of reason to call the characters from their remote guild training areas, but what about the good-aligned mage who resents being oppressed by the nobility's lies?

As far as magic goes, perhaps a catastrophic (and rapidly becoming cliche if Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms are any indicator) event that rips the weave of magic from the fabric of the world? Or that the source of magics power has become so weak that even the most powerful of wizards can barely cause a candle to flicker? Of course these paths require removal of magic from the world completely, which seems to be the opposite of what you aim to do.

There is always the Inheritance Cycle to consider; in which Galbatorix decided to police all magic users and forbid the use of any unauthorized magic through use of even more powerful magic. Perhaps this sort of "he who has the most power makes the rules" scenario would fit your setting?

Forgive me for rambling on through text; your setting is awesome and I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to see what you do with the issue of magic.

O Senhor Leetz · February 13, 2012, 06:25:24 PM

Quote from: Stryker25B
Normally I spend my time poking around these types of forums without ever really getting involved, but the description of your setting was enough to get me to read the entire thread, and then to join CBC.

Why thank you sir.

Quote from: Stryker25B
HOW are the leaders of present-day Grindelrath keeping magic-users in check? It's all fin and good to tell a powerful wizard "Stay in your tower- or else!" but there has to be a definite, serious threat to back up the "or else" with. And I'm just talking about the former heroes here. Obviously an evil wizard popping up here and there would be the sort of reason to call the characters from their remote guild training areas, but what about the good-aligned mage who resents being oppressed by the nobility's lies?

I'm leaning towards have the magic-users of the setting all being a part of a single college or brotherhood, that, in addition to their own dark goals, search for any potential magic users, and give them the ultimatum: Join us or die.

As for the potential good wizard, the wizards college (or whatever) will have a near monopoly on arcane knowledge. Without books and study, you simply cannot harness magic, so farmer Jim cannot say, "I want to be an adventurer and a wizard!" and do it.

As for the characters, they may be exempt from the wizard college's purge/recruitment, but they will practice their own form of magic, namely anti-magic magic.

BUT, that is just a thought. This setting has really only gelled in the last week or so as an evolution from another setting, so I'm up for anything thoughts or suggestions. I know what tone I want, but besides that, I'm still shooting from the hip.

Quote from: Stryker25B
Perhaps this sort of "he who has the most power makes the rules" scenario would fit your setting?

Yes!

O Senhor Leetz · February 13, 2012, 09:08:36 PM

[ic=The Sombraphage - The Shade-Eaters]In the realm of Grindelrath, none maintain such a shroud of mystery and an aura of fear like the Sombraphage - the Shade-Eaters. While their history has been carefully cultivated by their own ranks, they were most likely, at one time, one of the many arcane societies founded centuries ago during the golden age of adventurers and explorers. But over the years, they slowly absorbed other such societies, their methods and means becoming darker and more foul, with those societies that did not join with them mysteriously vanishing. Over time, the Shade-Eaters - the exact origins of the name are unknown - became the sole arcane society in Grindelrath.

By carefully balancing their influence, they have become at the same time seemlessly intergrated into the political system of Grindelrath while at the same time being above and beyond the petty vendettas of spoiled princes and decadent lords. They are both feared and sought after as advisors and court-mages. They are above the reproach of the law, their black-stone towers soaked with rumors of vile experiments, pacts with demons, and machine-tortured souls. While their numbers are few, many surmise that the Sombraphage is the true power behind many of the warring kings and lords of Grindelrath.

Yet they are not fools, inspite of their foulness. They know how far they can push before the nobility and commoners begin to push back. They are especially wary of the Harbingers, the very last of the adventurers guilds from so long ago, who always seem so close to stumbling upon the blackest secrets of the Shade-Eaters.[/ic]

This is all still very W.I.P., but I just thought I'd start putting stuff out.

arkham618 · February 14, 2012, 06:36:07 AM

Quote from: Señor Leetz
Quote from: Stryker25B
Normally I spend my time poking around these types of forums without ever really getting involved, but the description of your setting was enough to get me to read the entire thread, and then to join CBC.

Why thank you sir.

Quote from: Stryker25B
HOW are the leaders of present-day Grindelrath keeping magic-users in check? It's all fin and good to tell a powerful wizard "Stay in your tower- or else!" but there has to be a definite, serious threat to back up the "or else" with. And I'm just talking about the former heroes here. Obviously an evil wizard popping up here and there would be the sort of reason to call the characters from their remote guild training areas, but what about the good-aligned mage who resents being oppressed by the nobility's lies?

I'm leaning towards have the magic-users of the setting all being a part of a single college or brotherhood, that, in addition to their own dark goals, search for any potential magic users, and give them the ultimatum: Join us or die.

As for the potential good wizard, the wizards college (or whatever) will have a near monopoly on arcane knowledge. Without books and study, you simply cannot harness magic, so farmer Jim cannot say, "I want to be an adventurer and a wizard!" and do it.

As for the characters, they may be exempt from the wizard college's purge/recruitment, but they will practice their own form of magic, namely anti-magic magic.

BUT, that is just a thought. This setting has really only gelled in the last week or so as an evolution from another setting, so I'm up for anything thoughts or suggestions. I know what tone I want, but besides that, I'm still shooting from the hip.

Quote from: Stryker25B
Perhaps this sort of "he who has the most power makes the rules" scenario would fit your setting?

Yes!

Well, you could go the Dragon Age route and have a Circle of Magi that enjoys a Church-granted monopoly on the practice of magic, enforced by fanatical Templars with anti-magic capabilities. Alternatively, you could have magical ability stem from a pact with a supernatural entity, and argue that, as spirits and monsters are driven ever deeper into the wilderness, it becomes increasingly difficult to contact such creatures and gain their cooperation, resulting in a steady decline in magical activity. Witches and wizards thus live deep in the woods, because that is where their familiars feel most safe, and they are all suspected of diabolism, because devils are the only entities that actively seek out mortals to form pacts with them.

O Senhor Leetz · February 15, 2012, 10:49:50 AM

I'm thinking of taking the route where the players will have no access to magic, as it is inherently evil, and only obtainable by pacts with darker, more dangerous "things". However, magic along the lines of prestiginations and cantrips may exist, but would be the height of non-pact magic. Also, alchemy would, in a way, take the place of many things that magic normally does in a setting (in crunch terms, buffing and healing in particular.) Magic can also be accessed through artifacts, but this is rare also.

So in effect, magic is evil in Grindelrath, much like it is in many fairy tales, and the players become witch- and warlock-hunters in addition to being monster-hunters. Because of this, I'm leaning towards the d20 Modern classes (Strong, Tough, etc.) more than the classic D&D classes, considering the absence of magic. (Plus, I like d20 Modern because it only really goes to level 10, with the Basic Classes at least. I think it's a good middle ground between E6 and the full 20 levels.)

And despite magic being evil, it doesn't mean that haughty nobels, merchant princes, or power-hungry clergy don't dabble in it, as everyone seems to think they can control it, and not the other way around.

EDIT: And considering it's a more Renaissance than Medieval setting, I want lots of books, codices, manuscripts, and missives on monsters, magic, and other cool things, like the Codex Nocturne for spectral undead, the Codex Corpus for corporeal undead, the Encyclopedia Hexe for witchcraft, the Hyssian Index for poisons or the Caduceus Missive for beneficial herbs and remedies.

Xathan · February 15, 2012, 07:40:29 PM

Quote from: Señor Leetz

So in effect, magic is evil in Grindelrath, much like it is in many fairy tales, and the players become witch- and warlock-hunters in addition to being monster-hunters. Because of this, I'm leaning towards the d20 Modern classes (Strong, Tough, etc.) more than the classic D&D classes, considering the absence of magic. (Plus, I like d20 Modern because it only really goes to level 10, with the Basic Classes at least. I think it's a good middle ground between E6 and the full 20 levels.)

There's a lot to comment on here and I promise I'll get to it, but since I'm on iPad I gotta keep this short or kill my hands. Just wanted to make an offer that I'd be happy to work with you on classes for Grindelrath using X20, which might suit your tastes - and making non magic or pactbound classes would be a blast and aid me too. :P

O Senhor Leetz · February 15, 2012, 10:33:19 PM

Quote from: Xathan On The Town
Quote from: Señor Leetz

So in effect, magic is evil in Grindelrath, much like it is in many fairy tales, and the players become witch- and warlock-hunters in addition to being monster-hunters. Because of this, I'm leaning towards the d20 Modern classes (Strong, Tough, etc.) more than the classic D&D classes, considering the absence of magic. (Plus, I like d20 Modern because it only really goes to level 10, with the Basic Classes at least. I think it's a good middle ground between E6 and the full 20 levels.)

There's a lot to comment on here and I promise I'll get to it, but since I'm on iPad I gotta keep this short or kill my hands. Just wanted to make an offer that I'd be happy to work with you on classes for Grindelrath using X20, which might suit your tastes - and making non magic or pactbound classes would be a blast and aid me too. :P

Just a quick idea here (as I've had way too much wine to carry on a solid argument) is to reward the PC's with extra skill ranks and feats instead of magic weapons.

Xathan · February 15, 2012, 10:54:40 PM

Quote from: Señor Leetz
Quote from: Xathan On The Town
Quote from: Señor Leetz

So in effect, magic is evil in Grindelrath, much like it is in many fairy tales, and the players become witch- and warlock-hunters in addition to being monster-hunters. Because of this, I'm leaning towards the d20 Modern classes (Strong, Tough, etc.) more than the classic D&D classes, considering the absence of magic. (Plus, I like d20 Modern because it only really goes to level 10, with the Basic Classes at least. I think it's a good middle ground between E6 and the full 20 levels.)

There's a lot to comment on here and I promise I'll get to it, but since I'm on iPad I gotta keep this short or kill my hands. Just wanted to make an offer that I'd be happy to work with you on classes for Grindelrath using X20, which might suit your tastes - and making non magic or pactbound classes would be a blast and aid me too. :P

Just a quick idea here (as I've had way too much wine to carry on a solid argument) is to reward the PC's with extra skill ranks and feats instead of magic weapons.

That's something that could be worked in very easily. When you're sober again, we should talk nitty gritty - I am building X20 with a much lighter focus on magic items (though the "core" system is not designed to be low magic, I'm going to make such a thing easily possible).

And that, regardless of system, fits the tone of your game very well. Magic should be a rare thing if it's good, or magic items should always have a downside (I'd lean towards the later) but be extremely powerful - so you have to chose power with a price or becomeing more skilled and not taking that tempting shortcut to power.

Stryker25B · February 15, 2012, 11:46:41 PM

Of course, you could always go a route where for some reason magic as it was known in the time of heroes and adventurers is gone forever, in that nobody could weave it anymore. In this scenario, previously created magical items could still function so there still exists the reward for PCs, and with such things become more and more scarce they would be precious treasures indeed. Another idea which I believe you brought up in a previous post would be to put some kind of serious drawback to the use of magic, akin to the taint of the source in the Wheel of Time series only with much more dire consequences.

O Senhor Leetz · February 16, 2012, 09:59:09 AM

Hmm, going with artifact-based magic could be really cool, as far as humans using magic goes. I still think that the "monsters" of the setting would have to have their own magic (this could easily explain mankinds distrust and fear of magic, as it's something that 'they' have that we don't). It may be cool to go both ways, having artifact magic and pact magic (although it would most likely not make sense that the PCs would use the pact magic, as the whole idea of the PCs as monster/witch/mage-hunters goes against that.)

For the artifact magic, I just need to figure out where these items came from - extinct elves or dwarves? (much like the Dwemer in the Elder Scrolls) Times when mankind could still use magic? Forged with the assistance of darker beings?

As for pact magic, I'm thinking deals with witches or hags or goblins - I don't think I'm going to have demons be "real" in the setting, but more an idea perpatrated by the Church.

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