The Campaign Builder's Guild

I've been pondering, and could use a bit of feedback on the question.

The question is whether or not the idea of the guild would be better off in a setting that isn't so Gygaxian and much more fantasic? It would obviously change much about everything - the setting, the place of the Guild within the world, the time frame - but I feel like I'm hitting a wall now that I've gotten past the basic premise of the setting. It would probably work best as a setting for a single campaign or one-shot, but I have no group nor idea how to work an IRC game.

EDIT: I also had the thought of making an alternate-Earth setting, something along the lines of His Dark Materials.

I am not sure I understand the question; are you asking whether to make Grindelrath less Gygaxian or whether to remove the Guild and use it in another setting instead?
I think the Guild fits pretty well with what you have here so far. Of course, most of what you have here is the Guild.
I think the Guild works better in a gritty dark world where the Guild is the last line of defense rather than in a more fantastical setting. Not to say Grindelrath can't be fantastic, but it has to keep a core of "normalcy" for the Guild members to compare themselves to. If magic and super-creatures are everywhere I'm pretty sure the average village would need more than the occasional clean-up team.

Haha, I'm still not exactly sure what I want out of this either.

I did have the thought of putting the setting in Earths history, somewhere around the discovery of the Americas, but I think that draws pretty close to Steerpikes Order of the Black Rose setting. So many options, so little focus...

But if I do keep it in a fairly traditional fantasy world, I'm going to get rid of premise of a golden age of adventuring and all that jazz, it's just too hard for me to work with with the ideas I have. The pseudo-Renaissance era I will keep though, for sure.

Instead of calling it a "Golden Age of Adventuring," why not refer to it in the same way the greeks and romans refered to their legends and myths?  It's not so much a Golden Age as "this is how it once was long, long ago, and we're trying to rebuild the tradition in order to preserve society?"  It makes it all less metagamey and fatastical while preserving the ideals of the Guild.  I agree with Superfluous Crow in that the Guild works better against a grtty, dark backdrop.

Honeslty, your idea of the Guild is somewhat similar to what Elirya has in its adventurer class, except my setting lacks the formalized organization.  As far as what "less gygaxian" means, I really don't know.  Do you mean that it's less metagame-oriented?   Or that it's less beer-and-pretzels?  Or something entirely different?

Gygaxian, HB, I'm just referring to the old school D&D with art that should look like it belongs on the side of a van, and also meta-game as well.

The more I think, the more I'm leaning towards making this a setting with the Guild within it, rather than being a setting based around the Guild, even though the players will still be in the Guild. I keep thinking that this would be best run as individual adventures and campaigns rather than building a whole setting around it.

Quote from: Señor Leetzthe old school D&D with art that should look like it belongs on the side of a van

This is the best description ever.
Especially when you imagine one of those boxy vans from back then. :P

I don't think it would be completely unimaginable to do a campaign where the players play e.g. a minor noble family with a small monster-haunted barony near the borderlands, or rogues who stumble upon something really, really bad hidden behind a wall in a cellar. Having the Guild just allows you to create a credible world where Standard Issue Adventurers fit in seamlessly.

Quote from: sparkletwist

Quote from: Señor Leetzthe old school D&D with art that should look like it belongs on the side of a van

This is the best description ever.
Especially when you imagine one of those boxy vans from back then. :P

Like this?

Well, that's more of a bus than a van. But I guess.... :P
We should probably stop derailing the thread now.  :ill:

So the Guild is one faction within Grindlerath?  What are some others?  How do they view each other?  How expansive is their control?

Posting van art is never considered a derail as far as I'm concerned.

[ic=Tools of the Trade][note]
A cambius carus - cambius lupos to be exact. A wood engraving from The Marrienwold Manuscript, depicting the so-called "Scourge of Sechberg", killed by Bherrich of Renna in 1254. [/note]

The Guild, in its specialized and peculiar line of work, has developed a number of methods that excel in the vanquishing of fell beasts and unnatural creatures. While a Harbinger is defined by his skills and training, they employ numerous items, weapons, and baubles to assist them in their work.

Copper - Clumsy, unwieldy, and relatively ineffective against men and most beasts, copper weapons - spearheads, ax-heads, and quarrel- and arrowheads are the most common - are one of the few ways to down several creatures, most of which classified as faen malverus, while literally translating as "bad fairies", it means so much more. Will-o'-wisps, spriggans, and changelings in particular are vulnerable to copper, and wounds caused by such weapons burn and weaken the beasts.

Silver - More expensive and more renowned than copper, silvered weapons have become emblematic of the Guild, as the common man,and even the common noble, cannot afford the luxury of a blade of silver. Weapons as such - swords and axes the most common - are used in the destruction of morta corporus - tangible undead brought to life through necromancy, mainly skeletons and zombies. Normal weapons of steel and even silver may shatter bone and cut sinew, but the black magicks that animate the once-dead are more than powerful enough to "repair" superficial damage to the abominations. Silvered weapons seem to disrupt the black magicks that hold together the morta corporus. It is a common misconception among the common rabble that silver weapons can wound faen malverus - were-beasts in particular. A mistake that has lead to many a brave - and foolish - farmers death.

Moon-iron - Forged under the clear, cold light of the full moon and quenched in water infused with hemlock, moon-iron, also called iero lunarus by the scientifically inclined, is a pale, brittle version of iron that is near impossible to shape and quite useless as a weapon. However, moon-iron seems to be one of the only things, aside from powerful magicks, that is effective in the felling a were-beasts, the cambius carus. Carefully forged into fragile spearheads and arrows, moon-iron weapons are often saved until a were-beast has been trapped and weakened in order to deliver the killing blow.

Alchemy - The practice and discipline of alchemy runs deep in the Guild, and to describe its history as well as all its uses is impossible in so few words. Used for healing allies, curing illness, poisoning enemies, and augmenting themselves, all manner of potions, elixirs, ointments, and salves are manufactured and used by the Guild.

Technology - With their considerable resources, experiences, and abilities, the Guild is often at the forefront of technological trinkets and baubles. While the devices made by the Guild are hand-crafted and difficult to recreate, they are a significant part of a Harbingers repertoire. Some examples include gear-powered automatic crossbows, hidden wrist-mounted dart-shooters,  adjustable telescopes, alchemical grenades, and even fickle and dangerous weapons powered by the newly discovered "fire-powder."

Books - While not nearly as glamorous as the strange and exotic weapons, potions, and devices that the Guild has at its disposal, the Library, which occupies an entire tower at Casse-Tere, is perhaps the Guilds most important weapon. Books, texts, scrolls, manuscripts, and codices hold all manner of knowledge on all manner of subjects. Despite their rugged and often violent nature, the Harbingers of the Guild are all literate, if not well read. While the keeper of the Library - the retired Harbinger, Jorrich Thrice-Dead - is loathe to let any of his "wards" out of his sight, sometimes knowledge is required outside the wall of the citadel, and the Harbingers sometimes carry works with them.[/ic]

This stuff is great!
Love the tone it evokes, and you are really good at the time-honored discipline of fictional namedropping. It really adds more than one would think.
Do some of the creatures have really peculiar weaknesses like the traditional vampire's hatred of wooden stakes and garlic? Most of this seems to hinge on what is essentially damage reduction.

Aside from the Witcher, here are some other possible sources of inspiration: Supernatural, Grimm (tv shows) and Van Helsing. I sense the latter has already influenced you slightly, with your mention of automatic crossbows. I do have a soft spot for Van Helsing, but many would probably consider it a slippery slope towards cheesiness, so tread carefully :)

EDIT: by the way I second Humabout's question above. What do you have in the way of inbred royalty, secret societies, scheming syndicates and corrupt clerics?
Are you planning on having unique monsters in addition to the "species"?

Quote from: Superfluous Crow
This stuff is great!
Love the tone it evokes, and you are really good at the time-honored discipline of fictional namedropping. It really adds more than one would think.

Why thank you sir. I'm a fan of name-dropping, glad to hear others like it too!

Quote from: Superfluous Crow
Do some of the creatures have really peculiar weaknesses like the traditional vampire's hatred of wooden stakes and garlic? Most of this seems to hinge on what is essentially damage reduction.

Aside from the Witcher, here are some other possible sources of inspiration: Supernatural, Grimm (tv shows) and Van Helsing. I sense the latter has already influenced you slightly, with your mention of automatic crossbows. I do have a soft spot for Van Helsing, but many would probably consider it a slippery slope towards cheesiness, so tread carefully :)

EDIT: by the way I second Humabout's question above. What do you have in the way of inbred royalty, secret societies, scheming syndicates and corrupt clerics?
Are you planning on having unique monsters in addition to the "species"?

I think I'm going to try to deviate from the common tropes of monsters/weaknesses and try to spice things up a bit and make the "relationships" between them unique to Grindelrath. Every species of monster will probably have a specific weakness, some more exacting and precise than others.

As for Van Helsing, I was worried that I was going a bit too Hugh Jackman action movie with the automatic crossbow, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyways. I do think it would be cool for the Guild to have access to strange and unique gadgets and baubles, but I think I want them more subtle than an automatic crossbow.

EDIT: Also, does the art work?  

Automatic crossbows are badass, just saying :p
But yeah, it might get a bit too action-cinematiesque. This setting would probably be best served by a fairly gritty approach, as I have mentioned before.

The art is perfect! Looks like something right out of the Malleus Malificarum or a worn monster hunter's diary.  

EDIT: The Pact/Brotherhood of the Wolf is also a really good (in my opinion) french movie you could draw some inspiration from. Some cool fight choreography and a neat monster aside from the appropriate tone and style.

I've had an idea about Grindelrath as of late.

How characters differ from most settings.

Characters in Grindelrath, the members of the Guild, should not be seen as similar to class DnD interpretations of the fighter, the mage, the thief, and how they act in public. The character players in Grindelrath, once again, as members of the Guild, are social pariahs, at best feared and at worst hated by the populace at large from high dukes to stable-cleaners. Players are more likely to travel cross country incognito (which is hard to do considering their "look" - hardened, scarred, battle-ready, disciplined warriors bereft of any real clue about culture or people aside from imitation) then to march into town, go to the tavern, and see what quests are laying about. The players, as part of their upbringing and indoctrination within the Guild, will most likely be seen as callous, aloof, and cold. The players, however, were trained to kill monsters, not deliver love letters, escort a maiden through the forest, or recover a lost heirloom of some bumbling town elder. The players are mercenaries with a mission, and most likely will not even see the importance or point of such gracious gestures.

This is not say that players cannot put their own twist on the characters, but the tradition part composition doesn't really serve Grindelrath, as neither as the charming rogue, the good hearted fighter, the goofy bard. And while the players would want to avoid collateral bloodshed if they can, they are of the "greater good" mindset. If several small villages fall in order to protect even more larger cities, then so be it.

In short, playing as a member of the Guild requires the player to change her mindset. While I hope this does not seem restricting in any sense, and I'm sure there are more than enough ways to inject personal preferences into characters, it makes much more sense considering Grindelrath is about an ancient cult of monster hunters that protect a society that hates them and that they don't understand.