The Campaign Builder's Guild

Being in the planning and playtesting stages, I'd hope the purpose is usability studies. Not that the items that get the most votes will be locked in, but that they will inform the eventual decisions.

I hope the polls influence them to some degree but... Most people who go to the site are people who like 4E, so its hard to say if the opinions expressed represent the totality of gamers they hope to target 5E towards.

Yeah, I don't think anything the players say will be definite. After all, WotC have to take their entire demography into account so they will have to have the final say.

As to 4E lovers being the only people visiting Wizards' website, that's not the impression I got the few times I visited the page post-announcement. There are these really long blog posts/feeds where different community members go into exacting detail on what they want from 5E and most of them flat-out announce they stopped playing when 4E was released.

Quote from: Superfluous Crow
As to 4E lovers being the only people visiting Wizards' website, that's not the impression I got the few times I visited the page post-announcement. There are these really long blog posts/feeds where different community members go into exacting detail on what they want from 5E and most of them flat-out announce they stopped playing when 4E was released.

From the looks of things, my impression is that there's a fairly large contingent of old-school players, compared to the number of 4ED obsessives. It seems from the comments that a lot of the 1st ED and AD&D mob are making a return to put their five cents in and talk about 'what D&D is really about'.

Quote from: HippopotamusDundee

Quote from: Superfluous Crow
As to 4E lovers being the only people visiting Wizards' website, that's not the impression I got the few times I visited the page post-announcement. There are these really long blog posts/feeds where different community members go into exacting detail on what they want from 5E and most of them flat-out announce they stopped playing when 4E was released.

From the looks of things, my impression is that there's a fairly large contingent of old-school players, compared to the number of 4ED obsessives. It seems from the comments that a lot of the 1st ED and AD&D mob are making a return to put their five cents in and talk about 'what D&D is really about'.

I concur.  Many absent grognards have 'returned to the fold' to put in their opinions. 

You know, I maintain that AD&D was poorly conceived, as a system. Nevertheless, I oddly find myself in the camp of wanting the return (in the base core) of returning to some of its design decisions. (Not all by far--down with THAC0!)

But 3.X and 4e kind of lose themselves in the rules, for me, sometimes. They were both fun, in their way, but it's too easy for everyone to slip into board game (or video game) mindset, and lose the flavor and story and tension. When the insane dragon encounter appears old school, it's "holy shit, run!" In 4e, it often seems more like, "this DM doesn't play fair/doesn't know how to run."

Quote from: Phoenix
You know, I maintain that AD&D was poorly conceived, as a system. Nevertheless, I oddly find myself in the camp of wanting the return (in the base core) of returning to some of its design decisions. (Not all by far--down with THAC0!)

But 3.X and 4e kind of lose themselves in the rules, for me, sometimes. They were both fun, in their way, but it's too easy for everyone to slip into board game (or video game) mindset, and lose the flavor and story and tension. When the insane dragon encounter appears old school, it's "holy shit, run!" In 4e, it often seems more like, "this DM doesn't play fair/doesn't know how to run."

There was an apendix in the back of the AD&D DMG that talked about how to match up power levels, but really, it was very, very ad-hoc.
(and in my own Accis d20 rules...no THACO.  I agree.)

The comments are no different than they were before the announcement.

One group of rabid 4E lovers and one group of angry 4E haters.

If you visited the WotC forums over the last four years, its been a constant flame war between these two groups. The two constantly posted wishlists about how they would improve 4E and how they wish WotC would either adapt their ideas for 4E or make 5E better. If the post was anti-4E, then the 4E guys would parachute in and post in droves about how the OP is dumb, stupid and idiotic as well as how all his ideas were unnecessary, torpid and oafish.  If the OP loved 4E and wrote a post about how 4E was the best edition ever, then the 3.5phils would come out of the wood works posting about how the OP is dumb, stupid and idiotic as well as how all his ideas were unnecessary, torpid and oafish.

This constant flame war was one of the reasons I avoided the WotC forums - nothing new was ever said - it was just the same argument re-hashed by new people over and over again.

What I meant in my previous post was the silent majority of gamers who do not go on forums, who do not buy all the books and who are surprised by new releases at the FLGS. Those casual players are ones who probably have some very interesting opinions on the game but who will probably never have a say in the design of the new game.

I have largely avoided the WotC forums for the same reason; that and the whole idea stealing thing.

I'd like to see WotC do some playtests at the stores. It would be tough, needing NDAs and all that, but it could get some good opinions. Then again, I guess they assume that if the diehard online players are satisfied, then the casuals will be as well.

Quote from: Xeviat
I'd like to see WotC do some playtests at the stores. It would be tough, needing NDAs and all that, but it could get some good opinions. Then again, I guess they assume that if the diehard online players are satisfied, then the casuals will be as well.

You have a point. The squeaky wheel gets the grease after all. If you aren't motivated to go onto forums and discuss/complain/berate then you will probably be happy with what ever comes down the pike.

Quote from: Elemental_Elf

Quote from: Xeviat
I'd like to see WotC do some playtests at the stores. It would be tough, needing NDAs and all that, but it could get some good opinions. Then again, I guess they assume that if the diehard online players are satisfied, then the casuals will be as well.

You have a point. The squeaky wheel gets the grease after all. If you aren't motivated to go onto forums and discuss/complain/berate then you will probably be happy with what ever comes down the pike.

And if not, there's not much WotC can really do about it. If someone isn't into the game enough to hear about the ongoing votes on the future of the game, WotC doesn't really have an option to reach them. And if they do hear about it, but choose not to vote, again, it's kind of on them.

That's the trouble of self selected polls.

Either way, I liked 4E; it took me a while to see its flaws, and I only saw them because of a few vocal players of mine and a mathematical "error" they corrected poorly (if they hadn't corrected it, I would have considered it a feature). I loved 3E, and I'm excited to see what comes down the road.

I just want a current edition video game ala Baldur's Gate. I miss the 90's/early 00's.

I feel like edition matters very little with D&D. People
will use whatever they're comfortable with; it doesn't
really change the experience that much, since the players
are the ones really creating the game anyway.
Bottomline: Tabletop RPGing is not a good buisness to be in,
because fans of your game make their own material.

Quote from: Xeviat
I just want a current edition video game ala Baldur's Gate. I miss the 90's/early 00's.

Yes. Co/op hack and slash needs to make a comeback. D&D: Daggerfall was godawful.

Quote from: Survivorman

Quote from: Xeviat
I just want a current edition video game ala Baldur's Gate. I miss the 90's/early 00's.

Yes. Co/op hack and slash needs to make a comeback. D&D: Daggerfall was godawful.

What is D&D Daggerfall? Some kind of combination of D&D and Elder Scrolls?