The Campaign Builder's Guild

QuoteSorry I missed the voting; don't know how you want to handle that in-game.

Unfortunately, I've already announced the winners, so there's nothing to be done about it now.  In-game, you could construe it many different ways, but the most obvious would be that your Senator simply didn't spend the time rallying together "his" senators - voting represents using your influence to cajole as many senators as possible into voting your way, and perhaps Manzinni decided not to play these games this time around.

QuoteWho is Capocci most closely allied with? Is he good friends with one of the houses? Or is he an enemy of one?

Niccolo Capocci was a fairly minor baron until recently.  His family is of some importance because their castles sit (or sat, rather) right on the Via Salaria, but he was basically unknown to the Romans until Calafatus marched an army through his land on the way to battle Farfa.  Signore Capocci gave the Roman army food, a few draft animals, and other such supplies and claimed himself to be a "friend of Rome," as long as the Consul promised not to pillage his lands.  When the Roman army returned from Farfan land, he used the opportunity to seize the Papal castle of Castrum Poteranum on his own initiative.  It is well known that his family has coveted this castle for decades, but nobody expected him to simply take it outright, and it greatly angered the Pope.

Note that Capocci is actually not an eques, nor is he a Roman citizen.  His lands lie outside Roman territory.  The family is Roman in origin, but as I mentioned, they have played almost no role in Roman politics until now.  Niccolo has no known allies or enemies among the Roman lords, though his family was one of the noble houses that allied itself with the Pierleoni against the Frangipani during the Papal schism of 1130-1138.

Re: nomadic's comment
Ah yes, the Alum for the sheep- when will we hear back on that Polycarp?
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Re: voting
How you suggest handling it works great. Manzinni may have caught a spell of sickness and retired from the public life- thus also why he is bringing his son Leonardo along to the meeting at Basile's.
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Thank you for the information about Capocci!

[ic=To the Inner Council]
As I have stepped down from my consular duties to campaign with the Pope I shall be out of Rome for at least a full season. As such, if no one can put up Signore Capocci in a fitting manner I will allow him to reside at my home while I am away.
[/ic]

[ic=Consular Decree]As Consul of Rome, I hereby declare that all claims made on estates [or -properties-] must be backed with proper records of ownership, without which the Senate of Rome and its Magistrates reserve the right to ignore or judge the claimant.

Hugo De Vinti, Consul of the Interior[/ic]

[ic=Letter to Niccolo Capocci]Esteemed Signore Niccolo Capocci,
It is my honor to offer you shelter in my palazzo, until we can find a suitable estate for a man of your stature. The good Senator Fortis Calafatus also proposed to lend you his estate while he joins the expeditio, should you prefer that instead.

I am unsure as to the current situation concerning your lost, or stolen, properties. However, I'd like to think that the arrangement we have talked about previously is still in effect. If you respect your end of the bargain, I shall respect mine, and lost property shall be retaken as swiftly as conditions allow.

That aside, before I can make a move on the previous matter, I have another that needs immediate attention. You may have heard of the recent happenings in Labarum? The town and its surrounding farms are now deserted; the peasants afraid and stressed.
For a while now I have tried to acquire lands in these parts to expand a business of mine that benefits all Romans, but the arrogant barons and the vicarius have all but refused my offers, even the most generous ones. And God knows I can be generous.
My decision is made; I will put much effort in the official acquisition of these lands. However, the barons may try to keep a grip on them. If only prominent figures were to side with me, perhaps they could be dissuaded? Of course, any help would be rewarded.

In Good Faith,
Hugo De Vinti, Consul of the Interior[/ic]

[ic=Letter to Cardinal-Bishop Cencio de Gregorio]Your Eminence Cencio de Gregorio, Cardinal-Bishop of Porto e Santa Rufina,
I hope this missive finds you in good health. It is an honor to converse with a Roman such as you.

As you may have probably heard, the town of Labarum was recently deserted. All kinds of stories emerge from this place; tales of sorcery, tales of lies and tales of war. Indeed, they are most troubling subjects to discuss within a peaceful community. And we are seeing first hand the after effects of submitting to these devilish thoughts. Fear.

I am not implying that I am a wiser man than you, but I have an idea you might want to hear about. You could change this land of lies into a haven of peace. All you have to do is support an individual that will repopulate this town with good Christians and work towards a constructive goal.

I propose to be this individual. With my ties to the Senate of Rome, the Pope and prominent local nobles, Labarum will be safer than it ever was. And without stress, without fear, without worry, the people will prosper.

In Good Faith,
Hugo De Vinti, Consul of the Interior of the Commune of Rome[/ic]

[ic=Letter to Martino de Corso, Lord of Formello]Esteemed Signore de Corso, Lord of Formello,
I hope this letter reaches you a healthy man. It is my honor to converse with a man of your stature. One capable of great patience and wisdom.

You may have heard, lately, that the town of Labarum has been deserted? It is quite possible that the peasants have fled to your city. Please, Lord de Corso, be cautious. I heard tales of sorcery, debauchery and violence from the place. It was anything but pleasant. You surely heard they killed a man for his sins? I investigated and the man commited no sin; just a normal man going about his daily business.  A man as wise as you certainly comprehends what this means.

I am currently discussing this matter with officials of the Church, so there is nothing left to do but wait. However, you might be interested in additional manpower to contain this threat, should it become one. If you do, I offer you a few of my best trained men, fully armed and equiped, for additional security for your people.

Most Sincerely,
Hugo De Vinti, Consul of the Interior of the Commune of Rome[/ic]

[ic=Letter to Senator Sismondii]Greetings most esteemed Senator,
I was relieved to hear of your support in the latest elections. It was a great boon and a joy. As was the very recent news of your newborn child. Please accept my most sincere congratulations!

I hope for a life full of success and health to you and your family.

Yours truly,
Hugo De Vinti[/ic]

[ooc=Orders Autumn 1155]Labarum
- Seek the records of Gallinas [the lands I've taken in Labarum], or the "Ad Gallinas Albas", first in the Santa Maria in Via Lata, then in the local dioceses and the Lateran. Use agents if necessary.
- Attempt to gain support from the nobility, the church and the wealthy in this matter.

Projects
- Seek financial support for the Aqua Virgo and the Porta Asinaria projects.
- Spend 4 WP on the Aqua Virgo project [Taken from my Savings]
- Spend 2 WP on the Porta Asinaria project [Taken from my Savings]

Naples
- Task my agent with the recruitment of expert Flax workers. Allow him to use up to 1 WP in bribery (for their smuggling out of Naples). Completely ignore Arnold of Brescia.

Flax
- It is autumn, so I must plant the flaxseeds. If it is possible to do this in Labarum, because Neapolitans joined my workforce or something else, plant the seed on the best farms.
- Find families in Rome that need work and place them on farms in Labarum, taking the best lands first. [Invest up to 2 WP for this if possible]

Military
- Pay the upkeep for my Heavy Infantry [1 WP]
- Place them under the command of Senator Fortis Calafatus for the time of the Papal expedition.[/ooc]

>>As Consul of Rome, I hereby declare that all claims made on estates [or -properties-] must be backed with proper records of ownership, without which the Senate of Rome and its Magistrates reserve the right to ignore or judge the claimant.



Does the senate have authority to do this anymore? Now that the ecclesiastical courts took over decisions on contracts and land?

Quote from: Light Dragon
Does the senate have authority to do this anymore? Now that the ecclesiastical courts took over decisions on contracts and land?

The ecclesiastical courts didn't take over contracts and land. What happened was that we were required to recognize canon law (the law of the catholic church) as the sole legitimate law of Rome. As the recognized governmental body of Rome we have permission to enforce this law, the only exception being that matters regarding ecclesiastical persons. So we can for example pass judgement within the framework of canon law on a returning noble's claim to land within Rome. We just can't do something like pass judgement on a church official (we have to hand them over to the papal curia).

So in short yes the senate has the right to demand records of ownership to back claims on land. Polycarp will of course call me out if I'm talking out my ass here but I'm pretty certain this is roughly what's going on. The Pope left us with quite a large chunk of autonomous power over Rome and even invested in us certain rights and privileges over the jurisdiction of the city.

Quote from: NomadicThe ecclesiastical courts didn't take over contracts and land. What happened was that we were required to recognize canon law (the law of the catholic church) as the sole legitimate law of Rome.

Well, the treaty read "The Senate of Rome shall acknowledge the primacy of the canon law of the Holy Church over civil law in all matters under ecclesiastical jurisdiction."  The key word there is primacy.  The Church is not prohibiting the Senate from exercising civil law, even in "matters under ecclesiastical jurisdiction" (save when it concerns a priest or other ecclesiastic, as Nomadic noted).  They are, however, stating that canon law shall hold the superior position.

This could work in different ways.  Sometimes it meant that a criminal would actually be tried twice, once by the bishop and again by the king, with the bishop getting the first crack at the criminal.  Sometimes it meant that the criminal would be tried by an ecclesiastical court but then handed over to the secular authorities for punishment - this is how the Inquisition worked; it didn't actually sentence or execute anyone, it just handed down the verdict and let the state do the rest.  "Primacy" could be up for interpretation, and Kings fought throughout the middle ages to snatch the ultimate power over justice from the Church.

Because Rome lacked a secular court system, Rome before the Commune really just had ecclesiastical justice, and this justice was carried out by the Prefect.  The Romans didn't mind the fact that they were judged by Church law - this was par for the course - but that all authority was given to a single man, the Papal Prefect, who was empowered to act as judge, jury, and executioner.  Without any appeal or check on his power, he could utterly destroy a Roman citizen in the name of the Church and there was nothing anyone could do about it.  There were not even any secular courts to try and contest the decision, or at least delay punishment until he could receive a secular trial.  Historically, when Arnold of Brescia was executed, it was the Prefect that did it, and there's no record of any "trial" - the Prefect condemned him to die and that was that.

QuoteSo we can for example pass judgement within the framework of canon law on a returning noble's claim to land within Rome.

The church might contest this.  They are probably assuming that they will be the judges of canon law, primarily because nobody else really knows it.  Becoming a priest in the 12th century is far more about studying canon law than learning theology, and almost nobody outside the priesthood would be considered qualified to interpret it.  Deciding a case based on canon law without any priests in 1155 would be like deciding a criminal case without any lawyers in 2012.

Anyway, the bottom line is that nothing in the treaty prevents the Consul from demanding records on ownership to back claims on land.  However, if a noble whose claim is rejected by the Senate then turns to a church tribunal (or the Prefect) for a "second opinion," and the Church disagrees with the Senate, what happens then?

Quote from: PolycarpHowever, if a noble whose claim is rejected by the Senate then turns to a church tribunal (or the Prefect) for a "second opinion," and the Church disagrees with the Senate, what happens then?

Depending on the interest the Senate has in regard to the claim, there will either be intense behind-the-scene negotiations with officials of the Church or nothing; let the Church pass ultimate judgement.

At least that's what I think.

[ic=At the Senate]Senators,
Today I come before you to ask for your generosity. The Aqua Virgo, as well as the repairs of the Porta Asinaria, are costly projects. These endeavors were started with funds from the Treasury, but this source is now exhausted; thanks to the Pope's demands. And I can only do so much myself.

Any contribution would be welcomed, on any of those projects. Obviously, the most urgent to finish would be the Aqua Virgo, but the choice, would you decide to contribute, remains yours.

To show you just how serious I am about getting these things done, I will be investing a small fortune from my personal wealth to the effect of the Aqua Virgo and the Porta Asinaria. I invite you all to follow my lead for the benefit of Rome and its people.[/ic]

[ic=Letter to Giordano Pierleone]Giordano,

I will shortly be hosting a dinner and gathering to welcome Lord Kosmas Bariotes of the Greek Empire to Rome. He has expressed a desire to become acquainted with the members of our government, and I would be delighted if you were to attend. I feel that I must note that Fortis Calafatus will also be in attendance, and should that in some way dissuade you from attending I will of course understand. I can assure you however that the table will not disappoint.  

Roberto Basile[/ic]

[ic=Letter to Antonio Demetri della Suburra]Signore Demetri,

Allow me to extend to you my warmest welcome on the return of your family to Rome, if there is any way that I can be of aid to you in future you should not hesitate to ask. As it so happens I will be hosting a dinner in the coming days to welcome a Lord of the Greek Empire, one Kosmas Bariotes, to our Great and Eternal City. As we are neighbours it has come into my mind that I should extend to you an invitation to this event, and I would be most pleased should you attend. You are of course welcome to bring a guest should you so choose.

Consul Roberto Basile[/ic]

[ooc=Orders for Autumn of 1155]- Host my dinner and gathering to welcome Lord Bariotes to Rome. Spend 2 WP to prepare my villa, and to ensure the food and entertainment are suitable for such an esteemed occasion. Provide introduction for Lord Bariotes to those he wishes to meet.

- Should Signore Caetani deign to accompany Senator Calafatus to my dinner, engage with him in discussion on the marital prospects of his daughter, suggesting my own son Ricardo as a potential match. Should Caetana accompany her father, have Ricardo make her acquaintance.

- Prepare my tower house to accommodate Lord Bariotes entourage, and prepare rooms in my villa for Lord Bariotes himself and the more distinguished members of his party, for the duration of their stay in Rome.  

- Encourage various skilled tradesmen (particularly coopers) to relocate to Gregioropolis. Emphasize the current lack of competition and the opportunity for significant work. Aim my overtures at proficient new journeymen who might be struggling in Rome. Allocate 1 WP to provide for small sums to be awarded to those who relocate to Gregoriopolis in order to assist in the establishment of their businesses.

- Provide the names of the builders and masons I had previously hired to work on Torre Basile to Signore Demetri.
[/ooc]

[ic=Before the Lesser Council]
My friends and fellow senators, truly this has been a tumultuous time and there has been little free time to spare thinking about things beyond the current events. However, I have taken time to look to the future of the senate and I see both the hope of a solid governance, and the concern to have that governance function smoothly. We took oaths to serve the Romans in a rather rushed manner. I do not feel badly over such things, circumstance dictated them. Yet now that we have some establishment and some time to breath I see that we can correct errors caused by such needed haste.

The senate of old was intended to be an elected body and it is one I feel that would take well to delegated authority (in the manner of our esteemed consuls) to a fuller extent and so I call now on the lesser council to come together and hammer out a senatorial code. I have been working on drafts for such a code and I know the most esteemed Senator Basile has done similar work. Between us I am sure we will succeed, and indeed we must. How can the senate continue to call itself legitimate if we do not now implement formal laws governing our own operations.

*Senator Sismondii steps forward*

I offer now some of my thoughts and drafts regarding the possibilities a senatorial code could take for your consideration and in the hope they might spark new ideas amongst the senate.
[/ic]

[ic=Sismondii's Presented Drafts]
- Each district of Rome elects 7 senators to represent it every year
- The Senate of Rome chooses from this pool the senatores consiliarii who act as the face of the senate comprising its representatives and the enforcers of its will.
- From amongst the consiliarii the senate chooses senators to function as Consul ad Exterior (vested to represent the senate in war and diplomacy with all earthly powers beyond our borders), Consul ad Interior (vested to represent the senate to the people of Rome and to oversee the city's upkeep), and Consul ad Ecclesiae (vested to represent the senate to the Pope and his church, and to oversee the senatory dispensation of law).
- A consul has primacy in his office, he can overrule the actions of other senators within his domain if they conflict with the good of the city or interfere with the duties of his office.
- A consul however may be overruled by the senate at large if consensus is achieved against his actions.
[/ic]

Quote
For anybody wondering why I chose this method, Pierleone used it with the real world senate (14 districts electing 4 senators each). I bumped it up to 7 each because iirc we have 100 senators and I wanted to step on as few toes as possible while maintaining the same district layout. Also 7 is a holy number so it seemed fitting.

Overall this system should maintain the senate largely the same as it has been except that we now have clear guidelines for what the consuls can do and what their duties are (and we have a third consul to handle our dealings with the church and the law). I tied these together because with canon law in effect the person who handles senatory law is going to have to be the person to deal with the church.

I also restarted the original electoral process for senators. I talked with PC about this and he said that it shouldn't change things, as long as your popularity is high enough you will be re-elected each year automatically. If it falls low enough you could be voted out (but according to him that can happen even under the current system so not much change there). This is more a flavor thing than anything but I thought it might add some more legitimacy to the senate in the eyes of the Romans if they can elect our members themselves.

So in the end what this does is mostly just formalizes how we're currently running things, and adds a third senator to deal with the church and law. I did also add a small clause allowing the senate to overrule a consul but I doubt that's something that would be used much. It's more of a fail-safe.

Of course I did this in large part to get feedback from all of you, we need to formalize the senate in some way. I feel it is important for our legitimacy to the church, the people, and our neighbors.

[ic=Lesser council]
Senator Sismondii speaks great wisdom here in providing a necessary check on Consulary power. It is dangerous to have unlimited power, for who knows if non-upstanding fellows will be elected Consuls in the future, or if a Consul becomes bribed or bought. Our consuls today are blameless now, but who knows what will happen in five or ten years. It is right to institute checks and balances.[/ic]

[ooc]
-Militia Upkeep 1 wp
-Continue Restoration of Churches/Holy Places in my districts 1 wp, employing artisans who live in homes that I rent out.
-Continue restoration of inns and other lodging in my districts 1 wp, to create some high-end living and to make others habitable.
-Save 1 wp.
[/ooc]

Edited speech to lower council based on polycarp's mention- instead of to senate; thought the procedure was to go to senate first.

Regarding Sismondii's suggestions:  Passing these new rules will require a formal vote and will require the matter to be put before the Senate as a whole.  As so far the proposal has only been given to the Lesser Council, I will reserve any comment by our NPC senators on this issue until the matter is put before them.

[ic=To Hugo de Vinti]Consul de Vinti,

You are most generous, and I am pleased to accept your offer of hospitality.  I appreciate the offer of Senator Calafatus, but I would not wish to call on his hospitality while he is not present to be host.  Please send him my regards.

The Pope has, of course, no basis to deprive me of my lands, and those he deems to be "rightfully held" remain mine.  Without my strongholds, however, I have no means to hold them against any neighbor that cares to attack me, particularly those barons loyal to Oddone Frangipane who so enthusiastically joined the Imperial siege.  These whelps must be quashed before I can rebuild.  Naturally, I suspect that the Senate itself will refuse any involvement because of their recent agreement with the Pope, but so far as I am aware, that does not prevent individual Romans from bearing arms against these rats.  No treaty prohibits an eques from riding to my aid with his personal retainers, does it?

I will gladly ride out against whatever barons or church officials are causing you trouble around Labarum.  I am sure they can be made to reconsider their earlier stance, given the proper encouragement.  In the meantime, it is important that you rally all the private forces of Rome that you can to our cause.

Signore Niccolo Capocci[/ic]

[ic=To Hugo de Vinti]Consul de Vinti,

Good Christians must certainly agree that peace is in the best interest of all.  If this land is in dispute, the proper course of action is for those parties in dispute to take their grievances before His Holiness and the Curia.  I urge all sides in this conflict to put aside their weapons and seek a just resolution that spares the people of Labarum any further indignity and suffering.

His Eminence Cencio de Gregorio, Cardinal-Bishop of Porto and Santa Rufina[/ic]

[ic=To Hugo de Vinti]Consul de Vinti,

Your warning is appreciated, but the peasants of Labarum do not cause me any great concern.  I have already received entreaties from some of the local barons for aid against "Roman-Imperial aggression" in Labarum; I do not pretend to know what this means, but like you I have resolved to leave this matter to the Church, which is undoubtedly the proper arbitrator of this dispute.  If I am called upon to deliver any persons of Labarum to justice for their crimes, I will not hesitate to do so, but I must decline your offer to quarter your troops here, as I do not wish to inflame these tensions any further.

Signore Martino de Corso[/ic]

[ic=To Roberto Basile]Consul Basile,

I must regretfully decline your invitation.  Please convey my sincere apologies to your honored guests.

Patrician Giordano Pierleone[/ic]

[ic=To Roberto Basile]Consul Basile,

I would be delighted to attend.  Regarding the matter of aid, perhaps you could refer me to the builders you have used for your fortifications, for I have a mind to do likewise once our family estate has been restored to proper order.

Signore Antonio Demetri della Suburra[/ic]

[ooc=Delay]I am absolutely bowled over with things to do right now, and have realized that I can't possibly make an update today, and probably not tomorrow either.  Considering that there are still some orders that haven't come in yet, the most sensible course of action seems to be to postpone this turn's due date to Wednesday, August 8th.[/ooc]

[ic=At the Lesser Council]Indeed, this code that the good senator Sismondii proposes would enforce the legitimacy of the Senate. It is something I pondered in the past. Alas, I have been greatly distracted by the happenings of late.

Relieved I am of the proposition to appoint a third consul; Consul ad Ecclesiae. A portfolio whose governance, I've come to realize, requires one focused on its implications.

However, I have a question that comes to mind. If the code was to be ratified quickly, and I don't dare assume that it will just yet, but if it was; would a new consul be appointed at that very moment or shall we wait the next elections to select one?

Furthermore, it was mentioned that the good senator Basile had thought about this as well. I'd like to hear what he has to say.[/ic]