The Campaign Builder's Guild

I don't see why I would need an excel formula or anything like that. It doesn't seem like an issue to me, even multiplied across five players with multiple instances each. However, if any prospective players feel that it would be irritating to keep track of their own information, even were I to contain it in each update, then I will consider alternate options. Terrain and other information is forthcoming.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by an impressionistic wargame, Steerpike. If you could elaborate I could give more consideration to the matter.

Regarding flight, I am still conflicted. However, if I decide to include it, it will be fairly peripheral.

Ok. looking forward to the terrain and other maps.

Quote from: SteerpikeSpeaking for myself, I'd be just as happy with a slightly more "impressionistic" type of PbP wargame as opposed to one with hundreds of stats and numbers requiring herculean record-keeping efforts.

There is a definite balancing act here.  Story-only games can work but they rely very heavily on the GM, because there is no "source of reality" other than the GM's interpretation of orders and events.  A player cannot point to any numbers or formulae and say "this is what I have" - and by the same token, the GM has difficulty making anything understood except through prose, which is not everyone's strength and can sometimes take much more time than just adding up numbers.  On the other hand, number-crunching can be an absolute chore, as I have discovered in other games like this before.

Excel can make the actual work easier, but relying on formulas might miss the key point, which is that mechanics are a feedback mechanism.  They are intended to tell the player things without the GM having to create prose to do so.  When mechanics serve usefully as feedback, they are good; when they complicate things to the point that they impede player understanding, they no longer provide useful feedback, and are bad.  This is why a lot of games like this tend not to have formulas as such, but use numbers simply as output (you have an Economy of 6, a Popular Support of 5, etc.).  A player has an instinctual feel for how much "6/10" means; less so for the prose required to convey this.

Of course, the GM still has to decide when and under what conditions to change these numbers, and that doesn't sit well with some people who are used to PnP games in which the input is directly connected to output - I have these stats, they say I roll these dice, the dice say I do this damage, and the only job of the GM is to create the scenario in which this happens.  If that's the style of game you want, you'll need those formulas to turn inputs into outputs without relying on GM fiat.  Just remember that making formulas takes work, to create them and to balance them, and if you get into the process of building a whole system it may be some time before you're ready to run a game (as all of us who have labored to create PnP systems should know!).

On an unrelated note, I, too, would like to see some terrain.

More or less what Polycarp said.  By impressionistic I meant sort of imprecise or narrative/prose driven - more a collaborative wargame-shaped story than a numbers-intensive, crunchy simulation where everything gets tracked, logged, and tabulated, especially if that means less of a headache for the GM.  Not that some numbers and statistics aren't useful or necessary (they definitely are!) but I just meant that I wouldn't see the game as being less fun if there's not an exact record of how much ammunition my troops have, how many exact square miles my territory is, or precisely how many grams of grain are sitting in the silos of the village I just plundered.  By impressionistic I meant I'd be OK with being simply told, for example, that my troop's ammunition is running low or that the grain silos were plentiful, or whatever...

Does that make sense?

And what I was getting at was along the lines of what Polycarp suggested-I'd like a measurable feedback system. It's something I struggled to implement when I was trying to design a game similar to the one you're doing here, so I wanted to make sure that you had given some thought to the inner workings of a feedback system if you had one planned or if you did not have one planned that I would find out exactly how much GM fiat is being made... because in Polycarp's games there are some constraints, but in a fantasy setting, I don't know if some magic macguffin will suddenly materialize... I don't know how many soldiers the kingdom of X or Y has until you tell me; I don't know how much wheat it has; or how likely a disaster may attack my crops, etc. I don't know any of these things and if they change on the fly during the game, that could destroy my plans.

That being said, Polycarp's game borders on the realm of disquiet for me when I play it because I am unsure sometimes how things are decided; I assume Polycarp has a table of events with likelihoods or a D20 and it's not just fiat, so it works, because I know the possible outcomes are influence by historical dimensions; with a fantasy game, there are no borders until they are clearly set... like for example- looking at the map I had no idea there was a russian analogue region until you mentioned it existed.

I'll admit I'm having difficulty understanding a lot of the concerns - or why these things are in fact concerns in the first place - that you guys are mentioning. At least as presented. Particularly, Light Dragon, I am not sure what you would like me to say. You often will not know how many men kingdom A or B would be able to field against you. You might have a guess. That guess might be as simple as 'a lot'. There are also times where you will know precisely how many soldiers are in the army of the guy who has decided he doesn't like you very much. It will all depend on how you play the game.

Also, I have updated the map to include major mountain ranges. Though I do not find it the most pleasing method of implementation, I think it is minimally offensive.

I like the way you described the mountains in the map, it's actually better (in my opinion) than drawing actual 2D mountains everywhere in an actual mountain-range.

I also agree with you, TMG, that knowing something outside of your border HAS to depend on how you play the game. It's just like real life; Qin strategists didn't receive a Zhao messenger telling them: "Hey, my King is deploying X troops to kick your ass, have a good day." Instead, Qin sent diplomats or, most of the time, spied, on neighbor kingdoms. This is just as true today.
Also, magic or not, if this world taking inspiration from actual China is any indication, natural catastrophes are PLENTY and will often determine the Will of Heaven, and thus, the one who's granted the Mandate of Heaven.

From my studies, what I can say is although war, and technology, contributed much to changing China over the centuries, a great part of the changes it went through came from philosophical, spiritual and superficial sources. They were, and still are to some extent, highly superstitious people, in general. Though I'd have to say they became much more pragmatic under Deng Xiaoping.

The Military

Combat is one of the most important aspects of gameplay in the Mandate of Heaven. Military force is a useful and versatile tool, capable of procuring new sources of funding and resources for your state, settling disputes, and convincing others of seeing things from your point of view.

Military units are recruited through the expenditure of taels, metal, keresic, and uniquely, manpower. Manpower represents the number of able-bodied soldiers you can call up to serve in your army. The basic level of manpower that every state possesses is 3% of the total population, though this may change based on specific modifiers or improvements possessed by your nation. Additionally, units marked Elite may only be recruited from the elite manpower pool. Your level of elite manpower is 2% of your calculated ordinary manpower.  

The basic military unit is the company, consisting of 100 men (unless otherwise indicated). Up to 5 companies may be formed into a battalion under the leadership of an Officer, allowing them to function better and more efficiently both in combat and outside of it. 6-15 companies may be formed into a regiment under the leadership of a Captain. 16-30 companies may be formed into a division under the leadership of a Commander. To organize more than 30 companies into a single effective unit, an army must be formed under the leadership of a General. Officers, Captains, Commanders and Generals are recruited via increasing denominations of military experience earned by your state through battle, victorious or not. A military formation of any size may be led by your nation's leader without utilizing any of your military experience, though the threat to your leader's life will increase dramatically, and other unanticipated circumstances may arise depending on your leader's personality and ability.

Some units may be marked with the tags Elite or Massive, these tags grant the unit additional advantages in combat outside of its normal combat statistics.

The Yua

Yua states receive the motivated commoners modifier, granting their Quoyese Militia units an additional morale grade over those of other states.

Land

Quoyese Militia: Conscripted or, far less likely, volunteer Quoyese commoners. Unarmoured and given little to no training. Their only redeeming value may be their ease of recruitment, and the number of militiamen that can thus be fielded. However, they may be worse than useless in the field, and are perhaps best left to garrison duty or the defense of well-fortified positions. May be armed with shiverpikes (Defence: Middling) or quoyo-nu (Fire: Questionable, Range: Short).

Attack: Pitiful, Defence: Poor, Fire: Nonexistent, Charge: Pitiful, Maneuver: Questionable, Morale: Poor, Discipline: Pitiful

Recruitment Cost: 15 taels, 1 metal. Maintenance: 2 taels per cycle.

Banner Infantry: Career soldiers of the Yua states of Quoyo. These men are volunteers who have signed up for a lengthy period of service, often in excess of ten years. Trained, disciplined, and wearing lamellar armour. They have decent staying power on the battlefield, but little initiative. May be armed with shiverpikes (Defence: Good), or shiverswords and quoyo-nu (Attack: Middling, Fire: Middling, Range: Short)

Attack: Questionable, Defence: Middling, Fire: Nonexistent, Charge: Questionable, Maneuver: Middling, Morale: Questionable, Discipline: Middling

Recruitment Cost: 50 taels, 2 metal. Maintenance: 5 taels per cycle.

Quoyo-danu Artillery : The quoyo-danu is an enormous repeating crossbow mounted on a wheeled wooden frame. Its size provides it with the power to fire jianbao capable of damaging armour and tread alike, or sow slaughter and disruption among infantry formations. It is maneuvered by draft animals, or if necessary by its own crews. However, as with most artillery, relocation in the midst of battle is difficult if not impossible. The quoyo-danu must be placed with care for maximum effectiveness. Quoyo-danu crews are among the most professional and highly-motivated members of the Banner Infantry.

Attack: Pitiful, Defence: Pitiful, Fire: Good, Range: Long, Charge: Nonexistent, Maneuver: Pitiful, Morale: Middling, Discipline: Good

Recruitment Cost: 70 taels, 7 metal. Maintenance: 10 taels per cycle.

Yua Nobles (Elite): The aristocrats of Quoyo are no strangers to battle. Though other dynasties limited the freedom and power of their nobles, the Seng routinely granted land, title and position in exchange for military service. Given their wealth these men can afford well-crafted Quoyese armour, gifting them with significant protection against shiver weapons and jianbao alike. Yua Nobles exalt ability with the solar lance above that with all other weapons, and these powerful artifacts allow them to atomize lesser foes with impunity. Yua Nobles may be mounted on horseback (Charge: Good, Maneuver: Good) or fight afoot (Defence: Impressive).

Attack: Good, Defence: Good, Fire: Good, Range: Short, Charge: Middling, Maneuver: Middling, Morale: Middling, Discipline: Good

Recruitment Cost: 130 taels, 10 metal, 6 keresic. Maintenance: 15 taels and 2 keresic per cycle.

Langshia Armour (Elite, Massive): Langshia are forces of unparalleled destruction. These wolf-shaped constructs, imbued with ritual energy, have ruled the battlefields of Quoyo for centuries. The impact of their sheer mass alone will often shatter an army irrevocably, but if not, their shiverfangs and claws will make short work of any who dare to stand before them. Their incredible speed allows for quick relocation and maneuver or devastating charges. Anglic treads and Jainese oyoro alike must take care, lest the wolf chastise them for their hubris.

Langshia are rare and difficult to build. They operate in packs of three.

Attack: Impressive, Defence: Impressive, Fire: Nonexistent, Charge: Terrifying, Maneuver: Excellent, Morale: Good, Discipline: Good

Recruitment Cost: 500 taels, 60 metal, 40 keresic, 3 manpower. Maintenance: 30 taels and 6 keresic per cycle.

Sea

Quoyese Junk: The Quoyese Junk is a relatively small, but sturdy and efficient, ocean-capable ship rigged with distinct fully-battened sails. While easy to sail and maintain, the Junk is functionally obsolete for modern naval combat on the Sea of Sen. Possessing no armor, and armed only with a single bow-mounted quoyo-danu, and the quoyo-nu carried by its crew, the Junk generally fairs poorly against the more advanced ships fielded by foreign powers.

Armor: Nonexistent, Maneuverability: Good, Speed: Questionable, Firepower: Poor, Range: Moderate

Recruitment Cost: 65 taels, 30 manpower. Maintenance: 6 taels per cycle.

Air

Yingsi Orthopters: The famed flying machines of Quoyo, built from little more than wood, silk, string, and an alchemical keresic philactery. Each yingsi is the work of a master craftsman, beautifully carved and embellished. Little more than a curiousity and amusement in the decades since their invention, yingsi have found new use in the contest for the Celestial Throne as observers and scouts, a role in which they excel. When one can look down on the world from two miles up, there is little that can escape notice. Yingsi even have use during battle itself, carrying a multitude of silk banners of many colours, the pilot tossing out the appropriate banner to convey information on enemy movement and position to commanders on the ground. These orthopters are functionally unarmed, though the pilot may carry a quoyo-nu. Yingsi pilots nurse fierce rivalries, and precarious duels in the sky at close range are not unknown.

Orthopters are rare, and are built individually.

Armor: Nonexistent, Maneuverability: Good, Speed: Good, Firepower: Pitiful, Range: Short

Recruitment Cost: 100 taels, 5 keresic, 1 manpower. Maintenance: 10 taels and 1 keresic per cycle.

The Angals

Land

Quoyese Militia:  Conscripted or, far less likely, volunteer Quoyese commoners. Unarmoured and given little to no training. Their only redeeming value may be their ease of recruitment, and the number of militiamen that can thus be fielded. However, they may be worse than useless in the field, and are perhaps best left to garrison duty or the defense of well-fortified positions. May be armed with shiverpikes (Defence: Middling) or quoyo-nu (Fire: Questionable, Range: Short).

Attack: Pitiful, Defence: Poor, Fire: Nonexistent, Charge: Pitiful, Maneuver: Questionable, Morale: Pitiful, Discipline: Pitiful

Recruitment Cost: 15 taels, 1 metal. Maintenance: 2 taels per cycle.

Yeoman Infantry: Recruited exclusively from the Anglic population, and the mainstay of any Anglic force. Yeomen are trained and well-motivated professional infantry. Wearing identical uniforms, a metal helmet, and armed with the breech-loading rifle, these soldiers are distinctive on the battlefields of Quoyo. Yeomen excel at engaging the enemy from a distance, or from prepared trenches and fortifications, where the power of the Anglic rifle can be best demonstrated. Should they be caught in melee combat they will suffer terribly. A bayonet is little match for a shiversword or shiveraxe in a man-to-man fight.

Attack: Poor, Defence: Questionable, Fire: Impressive, Range: Moderate, Charge: Questionable, Maneuver: Middling, Morale: Good, Discipline: Good

Recruitment Cost: 65 taels, 1 metal. Maintenance: 6 taels per cycle.

Yeoman Rotary Gunners: The rotary gun is a marvel of modern military engineering. Initially used by their Nationalist opponents in the Anglic Civil War, the  Loyalists quickly adopted the rotary gun from captured examples. The design has been refined since the Exile, and the modern rotary gun is more compact, lighter, and easier to use then ever before. Tripod mounted, the rotary gun may be carried and assembled by a crew of only 3 men. Its five rotating barrels are powered by a small keresic motor, allowing it to fire over 1500 rounds of ammunition per minute. Multiple rotary guns typically accompany any Yeoman regiment. The rotary gun is routinely hailed - or vilified - as the main tool enabling the success of the Loyalists in their invasion of Quoyo.  

Attack: Poor, Defence: Poor, Fire: Excellent, Range: Moderate, Charge: Nonexistant, Maneuver: Middling, Morale: Good, Discipline: Good

Recruitment Cost: 80 taels, 4 metal, 5 keresic. Maintenance: 8 taels and 1 keresic per cycle.

Yeoman Artillery: Another essential component of the Anglic Yeoman armies, artillery is used for the long-range engagement and disruption of enemy armies, and more importantly, the destruction of fortifications. Firing large explosive shells, these artillery pieces can easily reduce most of the fortifications of Quoyo over the course of several days. Pulled by draft animals, artillery pieces are difficult to relocate and maneuver. They may find additional employment as direct-fire weapons utilized against the armoured constructs of the natives of Quoyo with some amount of effectiveness.

Attack: Poor, Defence: Poor, Fire: Excellent, Range: Substantial, Charge: Nonexistant, Maneuver: Pitiful, Morale: Good, Discipline: Good

Recruitment Cost: 120 taels, 10 metal. Maintenance: 15 taels per cycle.

Anglic Knights (Elite): Anglic Knights eschew the horse, and if unable to afford the construction and maintenance of a tread, will fight afoot with their retainers. Encased in masterfully angled heavy plate armour, the Anglic Knight need not fear most weapons fire. Bullets and jianbao bounce harmlessly off their plate allowing them to exchange fire with shotgun and revolver even when heavily outnumbered, or enables them to close with the enemy and make short work of them with their gruesome heatblades. A charge of Anglic Knights is a fearsome sight indeed, and entire Quoyese armies have virtually evaporated on contact with these butchers.

Attack: Impressive, Defence: Excellent, Fire: Good, Range: Short, Charge: Excellent, Maneuver: Questionable, Morale: Impressive, Discipline: Middling

Recruitment Cost: 210 taels, 15 metal, 5 keresic. Maintenance: 10 taels and 2 keresic per cycle.

Griswold Battle Tread (Elite, Massive): The premier land weapons platform of the Angals, developed and refined over the course of three decades, and operated solely by the Knightly class and their retainers. Quick, well-armoured, and well-armed. Named after the legendary loyalist commander Duke Adrian Griswold, who stymied the Nationalist advances for years until his tragic death. These treads are not identical, nor are they mass-produced, but they are alike in form, function, and aesthetics. Manufactured by independent or associated groups of yeoman forges and workshops. Griswolds are provided with a forward mounted turret, carrying the standardized 50 mm Roat cannon, capable of firing armor-piercing or explosive shells. Additionally, these battle treads are commonly coaxially mounted with a small three-barreled rotary gun, allowing them to more effectively engage enemy infantry.

Griswolds are complicated and difficult to manufacture. They operate in lances consisting of five treads.

Attack: Middling, Defence: Excellent, Fire: Excellent, Range: Long, Charge: Impressive, Maneuver: Good, Morale: Impressive, Discipline: Middling

Recruitment Cost: 400 taels, 50 metal, 45 keresic, 15 manpower. Maintenance: 25 taels and 10 keresic per cycle.
 
Sea

Monitor: A slow and small warship with a very low profile. The deck of a monitor sits close to the waterline to reduce its chances of being hit by enemy shells. Anglic monitors mount heavy guns - for their size - in turrets at the bow and the stern. The turrets, belt, and deck are completely shielded with armour plating, but this plating is light in comparison to that of other Anglic ships. Due to their shallow draft, monitors are entirely unsuited to combat on the open sea, being used for coastal defence or littoral operations.

Armor: Middling, Maneuverability: Middling, Speed: Questionable, Firepower: Middling, Range: Long

Recruitment Cost: 150 taels, 20 metal, 15 keresic, 50 manpower. Maintenance: 25 taels and 5 keresic per cycle.

Destroyer: Large, fast, and maneuverable, the Anglic destroyer fulfills the need for a smaller attack ship capable of operating far from shore. Well-armoured and armed with six sizable naval guns, the destroyer is superior to any ship on the Sea of Sen save her larger sibling: the Dreadnaught. Destroyers serve ably as commerce raiders, escorts, and naval weapons platforms.

Armor: Impressive, Maneuverability: Good, Speed: Good, Firepower: Good, Range: Substantial

Recruitment Cost: 600 taels, 65 metal, 35 keresic, 210(+10) manpower. Maintenance: 50 taels and 10 keresic per cycle.

Dreadnaught: The world's premier class of naval warship. Enormous, and armed to the teeth with multiple dual or triple gun turrets fitted with artillery of unmatched power and size. Dreadnaughts can engage their targets at ranges of up to 10 miles, and virtually no coastal fortress can withstand their barrage. Few dreadnaughts have been seen on the Sea of Sen since the initial Anglic Invasion. Owing to their advanced age - often of more than three decades! - several have been sold off to Anglic mercenaries uninterested in settling in Quoyo, or broken down for scrap - their guns incorporated into new coastal defences. The Dukes and Counts of Anglic Quoyo have found the smaller destroyer more than adequate for their needs. Should an Anglic Lord build a new dreadnaught, his prestige and power would be unrivaled.

Armor: Excellent, Maneuverability: Middling, Speed: Good, Firepower: Terrifying, Range: Incredible

Recruitment Cost: 2000 taels, 250 metal, 100 keresic, 1150(+100) manpower. Maintenance: 200 taels and 40 keresic per cycle.

The Jainese

Land

Quoyese Militia:  Conscripted or, far less likely, volunteer Quoyese commoners. Unarmoured and given little to no training. Their only redeeming value may be their ease of recruitment, and the number of militiamen that can thus be fielded. However, they may be worse than useless in the field, and are perhaps best left to garrison duty or the defense of well-fortified positions. May be armed with shiverpikes (Defence: Middling) or quoyo-nu (Fire: Questionable, Range: Short).

Attack: Pitiful, Defence: Poor, Fire: Nonexistent, Charge: Pitiful, Maneuver: Questionable, Morale: Pitiful, Discipline: Pitiful

Recruitment Cost: 20 taels, 1 metal. Maintenance: 2 taels per cycle.

Kaizoku Ashigaru: Men of the islands of Jai who have made their living by piracy, and by their service to pirate Sojai. They may be the former soldiers of landed Sojai, hereditary pirates, or from any number of backgrounds. Their training, if any, is not standardized. Kaizoku Ashigaru are fierce and eager fighters, but they cannot be relied upon to maintain disciplined ranks, or to hold their position if they sense an advantage. They are routinely armed with shiveraxes and quoyo-nu, and fight either unarmoured, or with a light lamellar cuirass of leather and lacquered wood.

Attack: Good, Defence: Questionable, Fire: Questionable, Range: Short, Charge: Middling, Maneuver: Middling, Morale: Middling, Discipline: Poor

Recruitment Cost: 40 taels and 1 metal. Maintenance: 4 taels

Rōnin Kosojai (Elite): Servants, attendants and retainers to the Lords of Jai, the Kosojai have trained all their lives in the arts of combat to protect and serve their masters. Kosojai who find themselves sworn to pirate Sojai are most often rōnin, having abandoned or lost their previous master. These men are looked down upon in the isles of Jai as honourless, and so make their living as they can - swearing their blades and their service to a new master. Kosojai are fierce and brave in battle, often throwing themselves recklessly upon the enemy - trusting on their ferocity and skill to carry the fight. They are well protected, wearing the thickly plated tosei-gusoku, armour capable of resisting jianbao and even, on occasion, the shot of the Angals. These men are not so bound by tradition as their peers in Jai itself, and readily adopt new weaponry. Rōnin kosojai may be armed with long shiveraxes and companion shiverswords (Attack: Impressive), or with Anglic breech-loading rifles (Fire: Impressive, Range: Moderate).

Attack: Good, Defence: Good, Fire: Nonexistent, Charge: Impressive, Maneuver: Middling, Morale: Impressive, Discipline: Questionable

Recruitment Cost: 110 taels and 10 metal. Maintenance: 10 taels.

Oyoro Armour (Elite, Massive): The Jainese oyoro is perhaps the greatest construct of war ever seen in Quoyo. Standing upwards of twenty feet at the shoulder - and carrying weapons three times as long as a man - oyoro tower over the battlefield, untroubled by the struggles of the infantry beneath them, sweeping their foes away contemptuously. Masqued with the terrifying likenesses of monsters, and painted in deep reds, blues, or blacks, the oyoro is a daunting sight indeed; men will run when these harbingers of doom take to the field. Though incomparably strong, oyoro are slow and ponderous, and can be outmaneuvered by tread and langshia alike. A wise commander will keep the flanks of their oyoro protected, lest they be destroyed in ambush by these swifter opponents. Oyoro are unmatched when employed against enemy fortresses, easily surmounting walls and tearing down defences.

Oyoro are built but slowly, each being utterly unique. They are rare, and fight in pairs.

Attack: Terrifying, Defence: Fearsome, Fire: Nonexistent, Charge: Good, Maneuver: Poor, Morale: Impressive, Discipline: Questionable

Recruitment Cost: 600 taels, 60 metal, 30 keresic, 2 manpower. Maintenance: 35 taels and 5 keresic per cycle.

Sea

Kobaya: Small and swift, the kobaya is ideal for piracy, and has been used in just such a capacity for centuries by the pirates of Jai. It is propelled by a single lateen sail, and the strength of its rowers. The Jainese Kobaya is two decked, with the rowing benches on the lower. Armed with but a single quoyo-danu, the kobaya relies on its maneuverability to get in close to enemy ships, allowing the kaizoku who man it to rake the enemy with jianbao, or board the ship for a bloody melee. Still, the trusty kobaya is no match for the ships of the Angals, except in ambuscade or treachery.

Armor: Nonexistent, Maneuverability: Good, Speed: Middling, Firepower: Poor, Range: Moderate

Recruitment Cost: 60 taels, 40 manpower. Maintenance: 5 taels per cycle.

Tekkosen Bune: Bune have a long history of serving as the flagships of pirate Sojai. Large for a ship native to the Sea of Sen, the bune is powered by multiple lateen and square sails, and still maintains two decks of rowers to allow it to more quickly catch its prey. The bune maintains large holds, and carries a multitude of kaizoku and rōnin ready to do their vicious work. With the coming of the Angals, the Sojai have reevaluated the effectiveness of their vessels, and the tekkosen is their first step towards improvement. Completely armoured with thick iron plate, the tekkosen is not left entirely at the mercy of Anglic guns. Mounting imitation cannon of its own, it can even return fire with some small measure of effectiveness. Still, the tekkosen lacks the technological propulsion of the Angals, and its design is yet inferior. A wise Sojai would strike when the greatest ships of his enemy were far and away from home.

Armor: Middling, Maneuverability: Questionable, Speed: Middling, Firepower: Middling, Range: Moderate

Recruitment Cost: 200 taels, 25 metal, 140 (+20) manpower. Maintenance: 35 taels.

QuoteI'll admit I'm having difficulty understanding a lot of the concerns - or why these things are in fact concerns in the first place - that you guys are mentioning. At least as presented. Particularly, Light Dragon, I am not sure what you would like me to say. You often will not know how many men kingdom A or B would be able to field against you. You might have a guess. That guess might be as simple as 'a lot'. There are also times where you will know precisely how many soldiers are in the army of the guy who has decided he doesn't like you very much. It will all depend on how you play the game.

Also, I have updated the map to include major mountain ranges. Though I do not find it the most pleasing method of implementation, I think it is minimally offensive.

No worries; what I had to say is less a complaint than a series of questions to better understand what your plans are and how things will run; whatever makes the game fun for you to run is important.

>>I also agree with you, TMG, that knowing something outside of your border HAS to depend on how you play the game. It's just like real life

Actually no. Although you could mis-estimate army strengths (see: McClellan v. Lee in US Civil War), you'd still have relative measures of some sort-even if they are influenced by trickery. You'd know that X's kingdom has "around 100,000 people" or around "10,000 people" and that around 30,000 maybe could be called up as soldiers; you'd know that y's kingdom has a lot of iron mines, or z's kingdom has more of X things. Spying should certainly narrow numbers and if spying is a tool that can be used by an empire that is very useful to know-e.g. how it would be implemented mechanically (investment in espionage,etc. and how success or failure may be determined- i.e. is the GM rolling on a chart or is it determined by GM fiat as in "I figure this is likely to succeed" or if it's determined by numbers (A invested 3 in espionage; and B invested 4 in counter-esp, therefore it fails; it appears that the answer to my question is one of the former two rather than the latter).

It is useful to know what "a lot" would mean in game terms.

What I am concerned is how are things determined; is the game master would be making these things up on the fly (1), or are there preset charts (2) or is this a numbers game where generally investing in something gives a 1:1 reward or a near 1:1 reward affected only by certain events rolled on a randomization table.

Essentially is this data set at the beginning of the game, or if is it made up on the fly?

Thank you for adding mountains. Are there lakes as well? or other major bodies of water? Looking at the map it seems odd that the political boundaries aren't broken up by major geographic features? Is there a reason for this (I may have missed it in the text). I realize that you've been doing a lot of work to set this up.

Right, ok. I think I understand a bit better. I am not going to be presenting every single tiny bit of possibly useful information. However! If you, the player, do not know something that you want to know that you think your character might know the answer to I absolutely encourage you to either ask me on IRC if it is something simple, or put it in your orders if it is more detailed or complicated.

Espionage is an intended tool that you may use, and I am going to include it in the Governance & Society rules progress update once I have finished the Economy and Military rules updates. I think I sort of take issue with the phrase 'rolling on a chart'. I absolutely will be rolling to determine outcomes based on the skill of the agent, the skill of any agents employed in counter-espionage, and various other values, but it is not based on a chart. You succeed, or its a wash, or you fail, or some combination therof, and I make a fluffy description describing exactly how I think that happened.

There are a few additional lakes, and I will be adding them. I have not to this point because I hate doing lakes more than I hate doing regular coastlines. Quoyo was a basically contiguous entity meeting all of its really major natural boundaries (i.e. mountain ranges, the steppe to the east and north), and as this is a game about the disintigration of and civil conflict in Quoyo there are thusly fewer boundaries. However, some polities are still broken up by geographic features. For example, the Meishui largely separates Prince Guoh from Huen Zho, the Huaihan will mostly separate Prince Guoh from the NPC minor and player coastal states that are not currently on the map, and the Red Sand mountains effectively separate Set from Velam. The map is still very much WIP as borders etc. will be adjusted when I have player states to put on the map.

Knowing numbers before spying (or surveying the land/target in any other way) is totally irrelevant. They might just be hiding a ton of resources, whatever these may be. At this point, I guess it's for TMG to make the cut because we think differently on the subject matter.

TMG, I have three questions:

1. How do battles happen? I'm sure there are many types of different battles; like for stealing a given resource, protecting a border, or fighting an all-out war. But let's say it's an all-out war, do we have to "advance" on the field by taking important/strategic ports, keeps and cities or is it an all-out war with maximum troops on each side?

2. How will time be handled? In Republic Reborn it's seasonal. I think that kind of thing would be beneficial here, but did you have something else in mind? Annual could be interesting as well. It just might result in a crap load of PMs before any given update though.

3. How will the movement of troops be handled? (That might not be a relevant question at this point?)

Battles happen via your troops coming into contact with the enemy, regardless of the circumstances under which that contact occurs. In your orders you will tell me what you want to do with your armies, for example "send the fourth regiment to such and such a place to secure the mine", you are aware that there are enemies in the area, so you might give me battle instructions or a strategy of engagement for your army, and I will attempt to adapt the intent of your orders to the situation as it changes. Your armies will never do anything utterly retarded, as they do have their own officers who are perfectly capable of not sticking their heads up their own butts (usually).

I am strongly considering having turns last half a year, or what I am calling a cycle, from equinox to equinox.

Armies will move semi-realistically given terrain, time, equipment, weather, etc. You order them somewhere, I figure out how to do that, unless you have more specific instructions.

Ok, that clarifies that. Works for me, too.

I am definitely going to be Jainese.

Hm. Here's the beginning of an idea:

Xu Minghui (徐明辉）- General Xu the Fair, General Xu the Brilliant Light
Yua General (age 42)
First a noble, then a soldier, then on a whim, he studied for three years for the Exams under the sage Wen Xiping ("Western Bottle") and after the Exams became a Master of Laws and of the Exam system, he served as a Governor for several years; then he was appointed to a command. He rebelled after Huen Zho's atrocity, he sees Prince Guoh as an inept middling child who will send the Empire into decay and destruction. With few other options, he allowed himself to be persuaded to raise an army to restore Order and Law to the Empire.

Xu has called his new country Feifeng (飞凤), land of the Flying Phoenix, the reborn Empire. Xu has adopted the Phoenix as pendant. Feifeng was previously known as the Province of Beihu (North of the Lake, sort of like China's Hubei, but this is a fantasy world so I'm going with the inverse word order).

Xu's father, Xu Erming, is trapped in the lands of Huen Zho and he may already be dead. Xu Minghui is gravelly concerned that his father, who was in the lands for a conference, was killed in the aftermath of the coup or is languishing in a prison somewhere. His mother, Han Peiping, remains in Feifeng. His uncle Han Shenzhou, the brother of his mother, was a key player in encouraging Xu to declare himself in rebellion to Huen Zho.

Xu has seven children; four by his wife (Wname) and three by his concubine (Cname).

Feifeng's populace is a hardy lot and practical. They cultivate millet and wheat in their fields and chew a type of wintry sugarcane that crackles mightily when masticated. The people are renowned for being stubborn as an Ox and straightforward as a Dog. They invented the game, log dancing, where competing teams hoist their competitor on a log, spin it around three times and raise it to certain heights before setting it down; all the while, the log dancer must pirouette and perform traditional Beihu Ballet moves without falling. If both teams dancers fall, then the dancers are scored by professional Beihu Ballet critics.


QUESTION: What is on the other side of the lake to the north of the Red Banner Army? Is that in play? Is it good farmland? If not there, then south of the Red Banner army, across the river and adjacent to the mountains? Another possibility- across the river and near the text that describes the Green Army...although I plan to mostly fight the Red Army, my guy wouldn't be opposed to an occasional skirmish with the Green Army. It's just a little difficult to find a place on the map that is near enough to both... which is why *maybe* the area on the north of the lake might be a good idea.

Thanks for the further elaborations!